Discussion
irocfan said:
Wills2 said:
ezi said:
Because a lot of roads have stupid speed limits which were suitable 30yrs ago when cars were less well engineered.
Or as is more often the case recently roads that have been NSL since they introduced limits have been reduced to 50mph or 40mph for no real reason. Cars stop better and handle better so lets reduce the speed limit and watch most people then ignore the new rule.
The current speed limit "policy/strategy" in the UK brings the law in to disrepute IMHO.
yonex said:
vonhosen said:
Get a grip.
They'll have had multiple chances & they then go further still and defy the order of the court, they are forcing the court's hand.
They could have heeded the warnings & stopped it going that far at multiple points previously , but they just kept pushing.
The fact they pay taxes (& probably don't pay all the tax they should anyway) shouldn't make them immune from defying court orders, that's madness.
It's you and your draconian view of the world, God alone knows what you do for a living but I'd suggest Parking Enforcement is calling you? Unless you have been living under a rock, you'd know what happens if you get caught travelling over 100mph on the Motorway, which is hardly a difficult to do in anything with a half decent amount of power. The picture you are painting, as all the 'speed kills' mob do, is one of a career criminal, looking for angles in which to flagrantly disobey the rules. No. The sad fact is that you can't, probably wont, see that education is the way forward and that speed taken in isolation does not cause a problem. I have no idea where you're going with the comment 'probably don't pay all the taxes' but suggesting that imprisonment is a really modern solution to the problem is way, way wide of the mark.They'll have had multiple chances & they then go further still and defy the order of the court, they are forcing the court's hand.
They could have heeded the warnings & stopped it going that far at multiple points previously , but they just kept pushing.
The fact they pay taxes (& probably don't pay all the tax they should anyway) shouldn't make them immune from defying court orders, that's madness.
My current vehicle does the standing quarter mile in a little over 10 secs, but you don't slip to 100 with it or anything else, yes it's not difficult to get to 100 if you want to, but you definitely don't slip there.
We know the consequences for doing 30mph over the limit, we choose to go there if we do.
Before you joined the party we were talking about people who have transgressed time & again , been banned & then driven on bans.
If you keep driving when banned you aren't leaving the courts much option, they'll have to bang you up.
God knows there is a lot that people could be educated on with driving but not exceeding the limit doesn't require any education.
It isn't necessarily dangerous if you do it (it may be it may not depending on the circumstances), but it is illegal & the offence is specifically written to not require any evidence of danger (Sec 2/3 RTA exists for that). It is a control measure. People don't need educating that's it's illegal, they know it is, so there is no need for education in relation to it. They already know all they need to know about limits & what happens when you exceed them.
If we flagrantly disregard them we can't be surprised if the state sanctions & ups the ante if we keep doing it.
I'm not saying that as somebody who has never exceeded a limit, I'm saying that as somebody who knows what to expect from the state if I decide to do it. I know the consequences before I go there & if I don't want to run the risk of them then I shouldn't go there. I'm responsible for my choices/actions.
Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 23 August 18:26
funkyrobot said:
Why do people speed?
Legal limits are just that. Limits. Regardless of whether or not the limit is correct, it's still the maximum possible speed you are allowed to drive at.
Think about it. Nobody likes getting caught speeding and I'm yet to meet anyone who likes camera vans and speed cameras. Yet people keep doing it, keep getting caught, keep totting up the figures for the partnerships and keep adding to the justification for more and more cameras and automated systems. People who speed actually keep the anti-speed establishments alive.
It just seems bizarre to me that so many people simply cannot abide to the limit.
I started a thread about the increasingly bad behaviour of a lot of drivers in 30 mph zones. It is as if a lot of drivers are far too stupid to understand why they are in place.
Vehicles are far more advanced and safe than when the speed limits were originally introduced. However, the human body hasn't evolved much further and is still a big sack of meat that doesn't like sudden deceleration, or being hit by a tonne of metal doing any sort of speed. This is where the problem lies, I think. Sat in a comfy, air conditioned and peaceful modern vehicle, 50 mph along a residential road may seem like nothing. Yet to a pedestrian, a cyclist or anyone else at the roadside, it's still fast.
As this is a motoring site, I can understand the thrill a good blast in a motor vehicle can provide. However, thrills can be had without having to put others at risk. So, to anyone who thinks that driving really fast along a residential road is great fun and shows what a huge sausage they have, you are wrong. You are a muppet and I hope one day the extra speed you carry doesn't result in an injury or a death. Also, the morons who whizz along the motorways well above the speed limit. Just think about what would happen if something went wrong. Sudden deflation of a tyre or hitting a patch of water isn't fun at 70 mph, but it could be even worse at 100 mph. Of course, morons will be morons and you will always get idiots driving like idiots. But why people who aren't morons do it?
There is so much more to bad driving than speed alone. However, speed is one of the easiest things to measure. It's much easier to catch someone doing >10mph over the speed limit than someone tailgating. It's also one of the easiest things to control from the driver's seat. Yet many, many people still do it and play right into the hands of the local partnerships.
It's got to a point now where someone like me (who sticks to limits) is regularly hounded, tailgated, abused and made to feel like a piece of s
t on the road. It isn't because I drive slowly and doddle around as I like to crack on as much as any PH'er. However, my cracking on stops at the limit of the road or a limit I feel safe at if conditions don't warrant doing the limit. To some, that is like me asking to bum their wife or daughter.
I just don't get it. My humble opinion, of course.
Because anyone with half a brain can work out that blind adherence to arbitrary speed limits do not correlate to safe driving. Legal limits are just that. Limits. Regardless of whether or not the limit is correct, it's still the maximum possible speed you are allowed to drive at.
Think about it. Nobody likes getting caught speeding and I'm yet to meet anyone who likes camera vans and speed cameras. Yet people keep doing it, keep getting caught, keep totting up the figures for the partnerships and keep adding to the justification for more and more cameras and automated systems. People who speed actually keep the anti-speed establishments alive.
It just seems bizarre to me that so many people simply cannot abide to the limit.
I started a thread about the increasingly bad behaviour of a lot of drivers in 30 mph zones. It is as if a lot of drivers are far too stupid to understand why they are in place.
Vehicles are far more advanced and safe than when the speed limits were originally introduced. However, the human body hasn't evolved much further and is still a big sack of meat that doesn't like sudden deceleration, or being hit by a tonne of metal doing any sort of speed. This is where the problem lies, I think. Sat in a comfy, air conditioned and peaceful modern vehicle, 50 mph along a residential road may seem like nothing. Yet to a pedestrian, a cyclist or anyone else at the roadside, it's still fast.
As this is a motoring site, I can understand the thrill a good blast in a motor vehicle can provide. However, thrills can be had without having to put others at risk. So, to anyone who thinks that driving really fast along a residential road is great fun and shows what a huge sausage they have, you are wrong. You are a muppet and I hope one day the extra speed you carry doesn't result in an injury or a death. Also, the morons who whizz along the motorways well above the speed limit. Just think about what would happen if something went wrong. Sudden deflation of a tyre or hitting a patch of water isn't fun at 70 mph, but it could be even worse at 100 mph. Of course, morons will be morons and you will always get idiots driving like idiots. But why people who aren't morons do it?
There is so much more to bad driving than speed alone. However, speed is one of the easiest things to measure. It's much easier to catch someone doing >10mph over the speed limit than someone tailgating. It's also one of the easiest things to control from the driver's seat. Yet many, many people still do it and play right into the hands of the local partnerships.
It's got to a point now where someone like me (who sticks to limits) is regularly hounded, tailgated, abused and made to feel like a piece of s
t on the road. It isn't because I drive slowly and doddle around as I like to crack on as much as any PH'er. However, my cracking on stops at the limit of the road or a limit I feel safe at if conditions don't warrant doing the limit. To some, that is like me asking to bum their wife or daughter.I just don't get it. My humble opinion, of course.
RWD cossie wil said:
Because anyone with half a brain can work out that blind adherence to arbitrary speed limits do not correlate to safe driving.
Yes, but the speed limit doesn't define what a safe speed is & it's not meant to (that's why you can be prosecuted for inappropriate speed both above & below the limit).It sets the parameters within which we are told we must choose a safe speed for the circumstances.
You don't have to exceed the limits because blind adherence doesn't correlate to safe driving either.
Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 23 August 18:28
Why speed?
Because it's fun, within reason.
Do 40 in a 30, and you're a cock.
Do 100 on an empty motorway, no harm, no foul.
I will quite happily take my car to and over limits, within reason. I can take som local B roads at the 60 limit. But doing 60 around the hairpin will end up with nothing other than an extremely bent up, tree shaped car. It says I CAN do it, but it's up to me what I do, and what I deem to be safe. Is doing 100+ on a motorway unsafe? Depends on the circumstances. But ask anyone, no matter who, ask them if they think doing 40 in a 30 is acceptable, I'd be surprised if anybody said its okay.
Saying all speed is wrong, is like saying all technology is evil, it's naive, stupid and border line dangerous.
Because it's fun, within reason.
Do 40 in a 30, and you're a cock.
Do 100 on an empty motorway, no harm, no foul.
I will quite happily take my car to and over limits, within reason. I can take som local B roads at the 60 limit. But doing 60 around the hairpin will end up with nothing other than an extremely bent up, tree shaped car. It says I CAN do it, but it's up to me what I do, and what I deem to be safe. Is doing 100+ on a motorway unsafe? Depends on the circumstances. But ask anyone, no matter who, ask them if they think doing 40 in a 30 is acceptable, I'd be surprised if anybody said its okay.
Saying all speed is wrong, is like saying all technology is evil, it's naive, stupid and border line dangerous.
Blanchimont said:
Why speed?
Because it's fun, within reason.
Do 40 in a 30, and you're a cock.
Do 100 on an empty motorway, no harm, no foul.
I will quite happily take my car to and over limits, within reason. I can take som local B roads at the 60 limit. But doing 60 around the hairpin will end up with nothing other than an extremely bent up, tree shaped car. It says I CAN do it, but it's up to me what I do, and what I deem to be safe. Is doing 100+ on a motorway unsafe? Depends on the circumstances. But ask anyone, no matter who, ask them if they think doing 40 in a 30 is acceptable, I'd be surprised if anybody said its okay.
Saying all speed is wrong, is like saying all technology is evil, it's naive, stupid and border line dangerous.
Why do think it would never be safe to do 40 in any 30?Because it's fun, within reason.
Do 40 in a 30, and you're a cock.
Do 100 on an empty motorway, no harm, no foul.
I will quite happily take my car to and over limits, within reason. I can take som local B roads at the 60 limit. But doing 60 around the hairpin will end up with nothing other than an extremely bent up, tree shaped car. It says I CAN do it, but it's up to me what I do, and what I deem to be safe. Is doing 100+ on a motorway unsafe? Depends on the circumstances. But ask anyone, no matter who, ask them if they think doing 40 in a 30 is acceptable, I'd be surprised if anybody said its okay.
Saying all speed is wrong, is like saying all technology is evil, it's naive, stupid and border line dangerous.
If your judgement is sound your judgement is sound whatever the road type.
I've seen plenty of occasions where I'd consider it to have been acceptably safe to do 40 at the time, but the limit said no so didn't, not wanting to risk points & a fine.
These days I take the view that other people's driving is not my responsibility.
I don't speed. Pretty much ever. But there's occasions when one can make good progress, safely, above the speed limit. If I get caught doing that I'll take my lumps as it was my choice.
Funnily enough I do get overtaken in 30s and the like. I get overtaken on Motorways. I just don't care. It's not a race and so long as other people don't endanger my life I'm cool with whatever they want to do. It will be their problem if they get caught. And like as not they will be.
When I want to go around corners at the limit of adhesion I'll book a trackday - they're brilliant fun and the environment is designed to make that a reasonably safe thing to do.
I don't speed. Pretty much ever. But there's occasions when one can make good progress, safely, above the speed limit. If I get caught doing that I'll take my lumps as it was my choice.
Funnily enough I do get overtaken in 30s and the like. I get overtaken on Motorways. I just don't care. It's not a race and so long as other people don't endanger my life I'm cool with whatever they want to do. It will be their problem if they get caught. And like as not they will be.
When I want to go around corners at the limit of adhesion I'll book a trackday - they're brilliant fun and the environment is designed to make that a reasonably safe thing to do.
As I have said elsewhere my attitude changed when I moved from the sticks with no limit and little traffic to the edge of a market town. Walking into town, as well as looking outside my study window is an education. It's a 30 limit , and it needs to be. Kids play areas on both sides of road , dog walkers, pets, older people and some crossing places for pedestrians which aren't readily visible to drivers.
And every bloody day at least 40% of traffic (unscientific guess ) is doing 40-60- and sometimes more, especially when leaving town, but still built up and 30 . Not all the usual PH canard (copyright J Clarkson) of Micras doing 45 out of town and in it), but plenty in the sort of car people on here drive . I couldn't give a toss- within reason - what speed people do at midnight but at 5pm, kids playing and then floor it in 3rd and hit the derestriction sign at 70 plus ? If more drivers actually applied the tiniest bit of common sense and , better still, actually walked down a road like this they might grow up and stop driving like fking idiots. Nope , I am not ROSPA , I drive a fairly insane sports car very briskly where safe to do so and where I don't look like a tragic git doing it but few things would please me more than having the book thrown at some of the idiots I see daily - not for breaking the limit per se but for driving with complete disregard for other people and their safety .
And every bloody day at least 40% of traffic (unscientific guess ) is doing 40-60- and sometimes more, especially when leaving town, but still built up and 30 . Not all the usual PH canard (copyright J Clarkson) of Micras doing 45 out of town and in it), but plenty in the sort of car people on here drive . I couldn't give a toss- within reason - what speed people do at midnight but at 5pm, kids playing and then floor it in 3rd and hit the derestriction sign at 70 plus ? If more drivers actually applied the tiniest bit of common sense and , better still, actually walked down a road like this they might grow up and stop driving like f
king idiots. Nope , I am not ROSPA , I drive a fairly insane sports car very briskly where safe to do so and where I don't look like a tragic git doing it but few things would please me more than having the book thrown at some of the idiots I see daily - not for breaking the limit per se but for driving with complete disregard for other people and their safety . vonhosen said:
Yes, but the speed limit doesn't define what a safe speed is & it's not meant to (that's why you can be prosecuted for inappropriate speed both above & below the limit).
It sets the parameters within which we are told we must choose a safe speed for the circumstances.
You don't have to exceed the limits because blind adherence doesn't correlate to safe driving either.
So basically you agree. It sets the parameters within which we are told we must choose a safe speed for the circumstances.
You don't have to exceed the limits because blind adherence doesn't correlate to safe driving either.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 23 August 18:28
You could have just said so, it would have saved lots of time
yonex said:
vonhosen said:
Yes, but the speed limit doesn't define what a safe speed is & it's not meant to (that's why you can be prosecuted for inappropriate speed both above & below the limit).
It sets the parameters within which we are told we must choose a safe speed for the circumstances.
You don't have to exceed the limits because blind adherence doesn't correlate to safe driving either.
So basically you agree. It sets the parameters within which we are told we must choose a safe speed for the circumstances.
You don't have to exceed the limits because blind adherence doesn't correlate to safe driving either.
Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 23 August 18:28
You could have just said so, it would have saved lots of time
I agreed with blind adherence not correlating with safe driving, but I didn't agree with the thrust of the statement as I saw it in relation to the thread title, as in that somebody would necessarily exceed them for that reason (because they understood that point).
i.e. They can understand that but still choose to adhere to them in safety & protect their licence rather than risk it.
HTH
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