Discussion
Max_Torque said:
So, you think the best judge of an appropriate speed is to simple follow the number written on a small metal sign? This is even more stupid than people who just want to do 100mph everywhere........
The speed limit doesn't tell you what an appropriate speed is. What it does is outlines the parameters within which all licenced drivers are expected to be able to choose an appropriate speed for the prevailing circumstances. It also dictates that they may only legally do that within those given parameters & provides the ability to sanction those who go outside it.
The choice of speed remains with the driver, the the right to sanction them for going outside the parameters remains with the state.
The state also provides a mechanism for sanctioning drivers who choose an inappropriate speed both within the parameters & outside them.
Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 21st August 01:04
macky17 said:
30s I stick to.
40s 60s and 70s : most of the limits are so conservative that when I try to stick to them I'm dangerous. My attention wanders. The faster I drive (within reason) the better I focus.
Quite apart from the speeding debate, that's admitting to pretty poor driving skills.40s 60s and 70s : most of the limits are so conservative that when I try to stick to them I'm dangerous. My attention wanders. The faster I drive (within reason) the better I focus.
funkyrobot said:
What has that got to do with anything? Just because I walk to work, it doesn't mean I don't drive or even enjoy driving.
But it does mean that you probably drive less than many others, and if you only drive for leisure purposes, very often in the company of your friends and family, then you benefit far less from reducing your journey times than someone with a lengthy commute who might save 10-20 minutes a day, or someone who drives for a living and might save anything up to an hour a day. You asked why people speed, for me the number one reason is to save time, if you don't spend very much time driving then you are less likely to appreciate how important that is to other people.
funkyrobot said:
Anything else you want to pick from my posting history?
If you want me to. I could point out that when considering an MG ZT as a purchase selecting the less common, slower, thirstier, less involving automatic implies that you enjoy driving for different reasons from the majority of people who say they enjoy driving.Andy
My own opinion:
In this nanny state of ever decreasing speed limits which are explained as for safety reasons, which no one can really argue ( less speed will result in less deaths/injuries), most people can see that this gives the state motivation to make a lot of money in fines and therefore choose to use their knowledge to determine their own speed and accept the risk of being caught.
In this nanny state of ever decreasing speed limits which are explained as for safety reasons, which no one can really argue ( less speed will result in less deaths/injuries), most people can see that this gives the state motivation to make a lot of money in fines and therefore choose to use their knowledge to determine their own speed and accept the risk of being caught.
spookly said:
PoleDriver said:
I always keep to the 30/40 limits in built-up areas (sometimes even the 50 limit if there's pedestrians) but when I'm on an NSL road, whether it's single dual or motorway I'll decide my own limits thank you as I believe that the numbers on sticks are aimed at the lowest common denominators behind the wheel as it is easier to make everyone drive slower than it is to make unsafe drivers drive better.
NB. 'My' limits on NSL can start as low as 20 as I drive to the conditions, NOT to blindly obey an arbitrary number dreamt up when cars could barely reach a ton and required an anchor to stop safely!
NB. 'My' limits on NSL can start as low as 20 as I drive to the conditions, NOT to blindly obey an arbitrary number dreamt up when cars could barely reach a ton and required an anchor to stop safely!
A number on a sign has no bearing on the safe speed a road can be travelled at. It cannot possibly take into account weather, visibility, traffic, vehicle type etc or be exactly valid for every meter it applies to. Also they come in increments of 10mph, risk clearly does not.
The driver and the driver alone can determine what is a safe speed to travel at, relying on signs to dictate that for you is a sign of poor driving and judgement. All the limit defines is a threshold above which you risk prosecution.
For the record I have never been caught for any driving offence nor had any kind of accident.
The driver and the driver alone can determine what is a safe speed to travel at, relying on signs to dictate that for you is a sign of poor driving and judgement. All the limit defines is a threshold above which you risk prosecution.
For the record I have never been caught for any driving offence nor had any kind of accident.
TurboHatchback said:
A number on a sign has no bearing on the safe speed a road can be travelled at. It cannot possibly take into account weather, visibility, traffic, vehicle type etc or be exactly valid for every meter it applies to. Also they come in increments of 10mph, risk clearly does not.
The driver and the driver alone can determine what is a safe speed to travel at, relying on signs to dictate that for you is a sign of poor driving and judgement. All the limit defines is a threshold above which you risk prosecution.
For the record I have never been caught for any driving offence nor had any kind of accident.
That's not true though.The driver and the driver alone can determine what is a safe speed to travel at, relying on signs to dictate that for you is a sign of poor driving and judgement. All the limit defines is a threshold above which you risk prosecution.
For the record I have never been caught for any driving offence nor had any kind of accident.
Drivers get prosecuted for & convicted of driving at inappropriate speeds on the determination of others.
When it comes to your licence & liberty in relation to dangerous driving through inappropriate speed, our determination as the driver as to what is a safe speed to travel at counts for diddly squat. Others will decide.
AW111 said:
macky17 said:
30s I stick to.
40s 60s and 70s : most of the limits are so conservative that when I try to stick to them I'm dangerous. My attention wanders. The faster I drive (within reason) the better I focus.
Quite apart from the speeding debate, that's admitting to pretty poor driving skills.40s 60s and 70s : most of the limits are so conservative that when I try to stick to them I'm dangerous. My attention wanders. The faster I drive (within reason) the better I focus.
Any half decent human being, let alone a half decent driver, would be able to differentiate between the risks associated with excessive speed in a residential area and driving fast on a deserted NSL Road. It comes down to limiting risks to others, which in turn means you need to care about others and not just oneself.
I reckon this is why most don't drive recklessly in built up areas, but some do because they lack that bit of them that says other people matter. A lot of us grew out of this phase through our teenage years. We developed into conscientious people.
When I am satisfied that the risk is to myself and not others, I have fun. Lots of it. Safely within the limits that I deam are safe. This could be below the defined limit, such as a bumpy single track NSL lane, or (in theory) above this. I will be driving though Germany soon and will have to apply this thinking myself as there is no limit. I shall enjoy this bit.
On the whole though, speed never killed anyone. At most it is a contributing factor but we cannot keep blaming everything on speed. Reckless driving does kill.
I reckon this is why most don't drive recklessly in built up areas, but some do because they lack that bit of them that says other people matter. A lot of us grew out of this phase through our teenage years. We developed into conscientious people.
When I am satisfied that the risk is to myself and not others, I have fun. Lots of it. Safely within the limits that I deam are safe. This could be below the defined limit, such as a bumpy single track NSL lane, or (in theory) above this. I will be driving though Germany soon and will have to apply this thinking myself as there is no limit. I shall enjoy this bit.
On the whole though, speed never killed anyone. At most it is a contributing factor but we cannot keep blaming everything on speed. Reckless driving does kill.
Edited by MikeTFSI on Sunday 21st August 08:50
PoleDriver said:
spookly said:
PoleDriver said:
I always keep to the 30/40 limits in built-up areas (sometimes even the 50 limit if there's pedestrians) but when I'm on an NSL road, whether it's single dual or motorway I'll decide my own limits thank you as I believe that the numbers on sticks are aimed at the lowest common denominators behind the wheel as it is easier to make everyone drive slower than it is to make unsafe drivers drive better.
NB. 'My' limits on NSL can start as low as 20 as I drive to the conditions, NOT to blindly obey an arbitrary number dreamt up when cars could barely reach a ton and required an anchor to stop safely!
NB. 'My' limits on NSL can start as low as 20 as I drive to the conditions, NOT to blindly obey an arbitrary number dreamt up when cars could barely reach a ton and required an anchor to stop safely!
funkyrobot said:
InductionRoar said:
funkyrobot said:
InductionRoar said:
Your mind seems to be made so I doubt you will be vacating your ivory tower any time soon regardless of how persuasive other internet randoms' viewpoint may be.
People speed for any number of reasons but I'm sure you know that really.
For the record I have a clean license and have never been pulled over by the police.
Oh yeah and speed isn't dangerous. It's the sudden stopping that is the problem.
What ivory tower?People speed for any number of reasons but I'm sure you know that really.
For the record I have a clean license and have never been pulled over by the police.
Oh yeah and speed isn't dangerous. It's the sudden stopping that is the problem.
In relation to the stopping, did you even read my op?
funkyrobot said:
The last post relates to some moron on here who got caught speeding over and over again.
To be honest no, I didn't read your OP. I got bored part way through and skipped straight to the comments. It seemed to be an extension to your 
post on the "have you exceeded the speed limit by more than 50%" thread. I have now read your OP and the general premise is exactly as I suspected from your opening gambit and posts in previous threads. Not saying you are wrong, however it does come across a little holier than thou in its questioning of morality from the seemingly self-imposed high ground - though I do agree with a lot of your points.
In answer to your thread though I think most enthusiastic car owners who intentionally speed do so because they feel (rightly or wrongly) that the combination of their car's performance, proper maintenance and driving ability elevate them above 95% of the driving public. The same arbitrary limits of course apply to these "morons" as it does the "enthusiast" though clearly a distinction would be unmanageable so we are condemned to the ridiculous demonising of speed because of the 95% (or whatever statistic you prefer) who are so disinterested in driving or vehicle upkeep that they can't be trusted to exercise their own vigilance.
I believe our roads would be a lot safer if everybody adhered to the rules of the road however, the rules are so laughably out of date it's hardly surprising people speed.
I think the original question is pretty easy to answer tbh. It doesn't take a huge amount of empathy to figure it out.
Fundamentally it comes down to simply disagreeing with the posted limit for that portion of road at that time in those conditions. Without being arrogant, I genuinely do think I'm a better judge of the limits than someone from a million years ago without access to modern vehicle technology.
Generally speaking people break laws for simple reasons:
1). they disagree with them
2). They inconvenience them
3). their desire to do something overtakes their fear of the consequences of breaking them
That's why people occasionally commit murders, take drugs, speed, take cash in hand for work, fight each other etc etc etc.
Pretty basic IMO.
People are generally pretty simple creatures and in short, I think I know better than the speed limit, and the consequences of being caught aren't sufficiently terrifying to keep me in line. Not much more to it than that!
Fundamentally it comes down to simply disagreeing with the posted limit for that portion of road at that time in those conditions. Without being arrogant, I genuinely do think I'm a better judge of the limits than someone from a million years ago without access to modern vehicle technology.
Generally speaking people break laws for simple reasons:
1). they disagree with them
2). They inconvenience them
3). their desire to do something overtakes their fear of the consequences of breaking them
That's why people occasionally commit murders, take drugs, speed, take cash in hand for work, fight each other etc etc etc.
Pretty basic IMO.
People are generally pretty simple creatures and in short, I think I know better than the speed limit, and the consequences of being caught aren't sufficiently terrifying to keep me in line. Not much more to it than that!
vonhosen said:
Max_Torque said:
So, you think the best judge of an appropriate speed is to simple follow the number written on a small metal sign? This is even more stupid than people who just want to do 100mph everywhere........
The speed limit doesn't tell you what an appropriate speed is. What it does is outlines the parameters within which all licenced drivers are expected to be able to choose an appropriate speed for the prevailing circumstances. It also dictates that they may only legally do that within those given parameters & provides the ability to sanction those who go outside it.
The choice of speed remains with the driver, the the right to sanction them for going outside the parameters remains with the state.
The state also provides a mechanism for sanctioning drivers who choose an inappropriate speed both within the parameters & outside them.
Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 21st August 01:04
I imagine reading it is a similar sensation to driving at 30mph everywhere.
funkyrobot said:
The main point of my post is that regardless of what anyone thinks, a limit is a limit. If it's a stupid limit, it's still a limit. I simply cannot understand why people keep speeding, get caught and go down as another statistic and another tick for the war on speed establishments.
But I haven't ever been caught, I've never had any points. Speeding hasn't cost me anything and the only accidents I've ever had have been silly low speed bumps totally unrelated to speed. So I speed, happily, and I'm sensible and careful and considerate about it. And so far that thinking has worked out just fine for me.
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