Small cars that drive like luxobarges

[swisstoni]

I suppose the real reason comes down to money.
Not enough people are going to want to pay barge money for a small car.
I have no doubt it could be engineered in a small car but not at a price the market would bear.
Shame. People used to splurge fortunes on Wood and Pickett Minis.

[George111]

swisstoni said:

I suppose the real reason comes down to money.
Not enough people are going to want to pay barge money for a small car.
I have no doubt it could be engineered in a small car but not at a price the market would bear.
Shame. People used to splurge fortunes on Wood and Pickett Minis.

To get a genuine barge feel (smoothness, waftiness, silence etc) you need a fairly heavy car with a lot of sound proofing, double door seals, leather, a torquey engine and low revving.

This is why I bought a Volvo, the S80 is 1750Kg, 5 cyl diesel has a good spread of torque, very quiet, automatic, not designed to be sporty so soft ride and plenty of insulation, even the wheel arches are lined with sound deadening material so you can't hear road water hitting the car.

[Fractk]

Many will disagree but the latest F series BMWs including the 1 and 2 series are pretty darn floaty in my book. You can't feel anything in them unless you drive them hard.

If you get the base model and smallest wheels and highest profile tires possible I think they are truly far more luxury cars than they are sporty.

IMHO a 228i is a far more comfortable ride than a Camry. It's quieter, bouncy, steering is solid (does not respond to anything on the road).

I can only imagine how soft base Audis and base MB might be but my experience is only with these BMWs.

[groomi]

George111 said:

To get a genuine barge feel (smoothness, waftiness, silence etc) you need a fairly heavy car with a lot of sound proofing, double door seals, leather, a torquey engine and low revving.

A small car with an electric drive train could meet this brief IMO.

[V8Matthew]

I bought an old LS400 for below a grand. Unless you've got serious money you just won't find a modern car that rides smoother. They are very big though, but that's the price you pay for a really stable ride.

[George111]

groomi said:

George111 said:

To get a genuine barge feel (smoothness, waftiness, silence etc) you need a fairly heavy car with a lot of sound proofing, double door seals, leather, a torquey engine and low revving.

A small car with an electric drive train could meet this brief IMO.

If you don't want to go very far . . . which is the point of a luxury barge, they're ideal for long distance

[oop north]

Citroen cactus? Not driven one but reviews say the ride's comfy. The auto box is a rubbish automated manual though - hideous (been in a different Citroen with one and it was awful)

[CABC]

CVT gbox helps too.
not sporty - but that's not what we're talking about - cheaper than fancy ZF boxes and well suited to smaller cars.
newer units quieter plus sound insulation.
i'm a big fan of cvt when appropriate. partly because cvt annoys some on ph

[veccy208]

Isn't it strange. This question has got us thinking. Over all the years of development, cars have become less comfortable. (unless maybe in the upper price range)
E.g the most popular cars for the uncaring masses just sell on silly toys and overstyled looks and the very thing you think a non petrol head would want is comfort.

[CABC]

veccy208 said:

Isn't it strange. This question has got us thinking. Over all the years of development, cars have become less comfortable. (unless maybe in the upper price range)
E.g the most popular cars for the uncaring masses just sell on silly toys and overstyled looks and the very thing you think a non petrol head would want is comfort.

not true. A, B & C segments were pretty raw many years ago (hence the appeal in many threads!). Where a lot of modern cars are confusing is in their suspension, which i guess is marketing led. many want their suvs to corner well, others would like a soft old French style ride. Shame there isn't more choice, because when you have a sports car or two it would be nice to have a soft car in the drive.

[raspy]

George111 said:

To get a genuine barge feel (smoothness, waftiness, silence etc) you need a fairly heavy car with a lot of sound proofing, double door seals, leather, a torquey engine and low revving.

This is why I bought a Volvo, the S80 is 1750Kg, 5 cyl diesel has a good spread of torque, very quiet, automatic, not designed to be sporty so soft ride and plenty of insulation, even the wheel arches are lined with sound deadening material so you can't hear road water hitting the car.

I'd argue that genuine barge feel would be as you describe but a petrol V8 or larger.

[DRFC1879]

CABC said:

CVT gbox helps too.
not sporty - but that's not what we're talking about - cheaper than fancy ZF boxes and well suited to smaller cars.
newer units quieter plus sound insulation.
i'm a big fan of cvt when appropriate. partly because cvt annoys some on ph

At risk of sounding like a Lexus dealer, that was another thing that made Mrs. 1879's CT so smooth.

She likes a nice, smooth box.

[Timberwolf]

veccy208 said:

Isn't it strange. This question has got us thinking. Over all the years of development, cars have become less comfortable. (unless maybe in the upper price range)
E.g the most popular cars for the uncaring masses just sell on silly toys and overstyled looks and the very thing you think a non petrol head would want is comfort.

I'd say ordinary cars of the sort bought by non-petrolheads have got hugely better. Take something like a Nova which had all the comfort, quiet and general relaxing air of sliding down Scafell Pike in a biscuit tin. The modern equivalent is a world apart - quiet, comfortable and well-insulated. Go up a class to your Focus/Astra size cars and you can happily contemplate long journeys.

Where the picture starts to blur is actually as prices increase and you get into the barges and sub-barges. Drivetrain NVH has still improved, but they're often compromised to a large degree by the notion that a car can't just be big and comfortable, it needs to be quick as well. So you get hard suspension and wide tyres with lots of road roar to make all that weight go round corners.

[EazyDuz]

what does wafty mean

[anonymous-user]

Maybe a MK4 golf V5/V6 with the smooth engine and heated leather seats etc, a well specced one could be very wafty and comfortable and the golfs are small cars.

[Funkycoldribena]

EazyDuz said:

what does wafty mean

Minimum effort,floating sofa driving.

[George111]

raspy said:

George111 said:

To get a genuine barge feel (smoothness, waftiness, silence etc) you need a fairly heavy car with a lot of sound proofing, double door seals, leather, a torquey engine and low revving.

This is why I bought a Volvo, the S80 is 1750Kg, 5 cyl diesel has a good spread of torque, very quiet, automatic, not designed to be sporty so soft ride and plenty of insulation, even the wheel arches are lined with sound deadening material so you can't hear road water hitting the car.

I'd argue that genuine barge feel would be as you describe but a petrol V8 or larger.

I agree but the OP was looking at small cars which means a biggish diesel engine with auto in a modest car. If you can find a small car with a V8 and auto then bring it on

[vsonix]

TazLondon said:

It's a shame the French don't make premium-segment cars any more. I appreciate that a C3 or C4 might provide a good wafty ride, but the interior is going to be fairly utilitarian. Gone are the days of the XM, C6, Vel Satis etc.

Fairly sure they still make them, it's just that they don't seem to sell so well in the UK and as a result, don't make it over here. The last 6 or so years I have noticed ever more models of French car in France that don't appear to be available in the UK, arguably no bad thing as a lot of them look terrible!

[Nickbrapp]

vsonix said:

Fairly sure they still make them, it's just that they don't seem to sell so well in the UK and as a result, don't make it over here. The last 6 or so years I have noticed ever more models of French car in France that don't appear to be available in the UK, arguably no bad thing as a lot of them look terrible!

I

It's a shame really, I've seen loads of French registered new generation espaces in this country and Italy and they are really very good looking, the whole Renault Peugeot and Citroen range at the moment is great, the 508 is s much nicer car than a 3 series and it's got s great ride too.

Shame badge snobbishness and bik kills the French here.

Remember the Laguna coupe? Looked good enough for Mercedes to directly copy it but never sold well

[twoblacklines]

daveofedinburgh said:

Another + for this point.

As someone who fitted big wheels/ lower profile tyres to perfectly good cars in the tartiness of my youth, I can testify just how much 'waft' is lost as you give in to the desire for a certain look. It makes a noticeable, detrimental difference in ride quality, even being detectable to distinctly non-car people.

It is counter-intuitive in a way, but lower spec cars will often be waftier on this basis. 'Sports' suspension is equally detrimental- I found my uncles' Z4 shockingly 'crashy', and I used to DD knackered old track toys regularly.

I think the wheelbase thing may be the biggest issue though- how do you replicate that LWB smoothness in a smaller car? Some small cars will do it better than others, but it will always be a compromise.

Interesting thread though!

My A3 SE is more crashy than the last 3 S-lines were, they were on s-line suspension with 18's on 35 profiles, this is on 17's on 45 profiles with SE suspension... you feel everything in this car.