Why is Japan not making saloons?

[ReaperCushions]

RobM77 said:

ReaperCushions said:

techguyone said:

, oh sure I *might* get a 'ski hatch' big farking deal

My theory is that Ski hatches are more likely to be 'Billy Book Case' hatches in the real world.

I think it's a simply case of something having to have a name, so they call it that. A 'ski hatch' is actually jolly useful if you have something long to transport but don't want to put the rear seats down (for example you may have rear passengers). I don't see the problem?

Incoming parrot. It was a joke.

[RobM77]

techguyone said:

RobM77 said:

I think it's a simply case of something having to have a name, so they call it that. A 'ski hatch' is actually jolly useful if you have something long to transport but don't want to put the rear seats down (for example you may have rear passengers). I don't see the problem?

not a problem, it's just that compared to a hatchback, the benefits afforded by a 9 inch square hole are... dubious at best and come a very poor second.

Sorry, I'm confused. That comparison doesn't make any sense to me. Hatchbacks and saloons can both have ski hatches and they can both have folding rear seats. The ski hatch is if you have long thin items and still want to use the rear seats, and if you don't need the rear seats and have larger items, then you put the seats down - same for both hatchbacks and saloons. The only difference between a hatchback and a saloon is the size of the boot opening surely? With a saloon you get a fixed rear window, so there's a maximum height of objects that can be put in the boot and slid through to the rear seat area.

Edited by RobM77 on Monday 22 August 19:31

[rb5er]

I only put a few builders bits in my cars, or suitcases or fishing gear. It all fits in my saloon cars just at it will in my hatchback and my previous estate car.

It depends how much junk people want to cart about, bodystyle makes no difference to me as long as I have 4 doors and 4 seats.

[Pints]

rb5er said:

I only put a few builders bits in my cars, or suitcases or fishing gear. It all fits in my saloon cars just at it will in my hatchback and my previous estate car.

It depends how much junk people want to cart about, bodystyle makes no difference to me as long as I have 4 doors and 4 seats.

+1

I have both a hatch and a saloon. The number of times I've needed the practicality of the hatchback over the past few years has probably been less than once a year.

[techguyone]

I'll admit to owning my lone saloon back in the 80's, the seats didn't come down, just the ski hatch bit, I wasn't aware the seats folded flat nowadays, that makes it a bit better.

[RobM77]

techguyone said:

I'll admit to owning my lone saloon back in the 80's, the seats didn't come down, just the ski hatch bit, I wasn't aware the seats folded flat nowadays, that makes it a bit better.

Ah... that removes my confusion! Yes, I've had a number of saloons and all have had rear seats that fold flat. It's an option I believe, but not one I could ever live without. I do that in mine at least once a week as I'm always carting stuff around (in fact I've just loaded the car up with stuff now).

My wife has a hatchback and I've owned a couple - yes, they're a bit more practical and given an open choice I'd always choose one if everything else about the car was the same, but the truth is that I love driving and other things come first, such as my desire for RWD and lightweight (my car comes in estate form, but it's quite a lot heavier and more expensive). The differences in practicality are fairly minimal for most things that I do. My bike's s bit more awkward to get into the saloon and that's the only thing I can actually think of right now. ETA: a bass drum is tricky in a saloon, but I'm not a drummer, so that's a rare occurrence.

[Trabi601]

Mr2Mike said:

With the possible exception of number 4 (which is oddly placed before number 3) that sounds like the sort of bks someone would come up with to justify buying a worse designed car. Yes, the high end saloons obviously look more upmarket than the average hatchback, but Americans seem to love mediocre Japanese saloons which in no possible way are good or expensive looking.

Security issues are mostly bks as well, once you've broken a window in a saloon you can access the boot release just as you can in a hatchback (unless mediocre Japanese saloons have deadlocks?). Is boot security that much of an issue in the US? They can't all be dragging dead bodies around.

Saloons are definitely quieter than hatches and estates, so they make a much better choice for anyone doing lots of business miles.

As for security - deadlocks are standard on almost every car now (Isn't it part of the Thatcham and Insurance Grouping approvals?) - you can only flip the seats down in my BMW if you have access to the boot, too - my Passat had locks on the seats, but accessible from inside the cabin.

Because I have a tow-bar for bikes, I bought a modular Thule system which allows me to use the bike rack as a load platform, too - which is ideal for collecting stuff from Ikea / Currys etc., or taking stuff to the tip.

[Coatesy351]

Saloon with towbar. Can fit much more in a trailer than in hatchback.

[littlebasher]

Coatesy351 said:

Saloon with towbar. Can fit much more in a trailer than in hatchback.

At 55mph !

I know which I'd prefer

[Coatesy351]

littlebasher said:

Coatesy351 said:

Saloon with towbar. Can fit much more in a trailer than in hatchback.

At 55mph !

I know which I'd prefer

Why only 55?

[littlebasher]

Coatesy351 said:

Why only 55?

Was easier to average out the 50mph on single carriageway roads, and 60mph on dual carriageways / motorways!

[ShadyDuck]

Personally for me an estate has been a God send.

I had my S2000 as a daily driver for the best part of 7 years, and it served me well as a car to bring home stuff from Wickes. It always seemed a challenge in the car park to get the most ridiculous bits of wood/flat pack/ solid furniture in there as possible.

Then the misses came along, and house purchases so to complement the S2000, the obvious (in my mind) choice was a large estate. I needed a car that was comfy, capacious & frugal. Volvo V70 territory. Since having it trips include:

1. 700 bottle of wine/champagne (wedding booze cruise)
2. Washing machine x2
3.Dishwasher
4. And the daily duties of a new baby and the mountain of stuff.

For me, the estate does everything that the S2000 doesn't, so they compliment each other well as part of my "perfect garage" (on certainly less than £100k!!!)

I also think estates age better than saloons.

E46 saloon - looks quite dated, estate....still looks good. M5 saloon or touring - I'd take the the V10 estate. RS4 - estate far cooler in my opinion.

I just don't see (apart from the extra weight) why I would buy a salon ever again.

[Mr2Mike]

Trabi601 said:

Because I have a tow-bar for bikes, I bought a modular Thule system which allows me to use the bike rack as a load platform, too - which is ideal for collecting stuff from Ikea / Currys etc., or taking stuff to the tip.

Whereas I can stick two full size mountain bikes in the back of my hatchback and still have room for plenty of other luggage, not an expensive Thule system in site.

[RobM77]

Mr2Mike said:

Trabi601 said:

Because I have a tow-bar for bikes, I bought a modular Thule system which allows me to use the bike rack as a load platform, too - which is ideal for collecting stuff from Ikea / Currys etc., or taking stuff to the tip.

Whereas I can stick two full size mountain bikes in the back of my hatchback and still have room for plenty of other luggage, not an expensive Thule system in site.

You can get two bikes in the back of a saloon, it's just harder than with a hatchback or estate due to the narrow gap between boot and rear seat area. I still use a Thule system though for my off road bike because I don't want mud in the back of my car. I've got a Thule tow bar carrier and it was £120, or free for me with Tesco points If it rains then my bike gets washed nicely on the way home My road bike goes in the car to protect it. If I travelled a lot with my bike I'd have an estate though, for sure.

All I'm trying to say is that yes, an estate or a hatchback is more practical, but it's not as huge a difference as some people are making out. Saloon cars are not useless, they're just slightly less flexible.

There are pros and cons of both - the advantage of a saloon over an estate is that for a 3 or 5 series at least, they're more common the secondhand market, they cost less to buy, they're slightly more refined and they're significantly lighter. The advantage of an estate is obviously the height of the loading area from boot through to folded down rear seats. When I buy a new car I look at both saloons and estates and weigh up the pros and cons, and I suspect most people do. This doesn't have to be another black and white PH argument - it's just a matter of weighing up the pros and cons.

[Alex_225]

Saloon versions of hatchbacks are generally pretty ugly but I must admit the current range of hatch backs probably offer as much space as most average families need.

The irony is that so many people seem to think that because they have a family they NEED an SUV, hence the popularity of the Nissan Gashquai and other cars that offer little space over a normal hatchback but look big on the outside.

I recently moved from a hatchback to an estate (Saab 9-3 so not the biggest) to an E Class saloon and I'm won over in terms of space. It's the first car I've owned where I don't have to adjust my seating position if I have someone behind me (I'm 6'1 so not that tall). I can drive four up and everyone is comfortable plus it's got a big boot.

I guess for Japanese car makers they don't bother bringing them over as the UK trends are probably more about SUVs, hatch backs and convertibles. Also, for those wanting a saloon most probably opt for the likes for a Merc, BMW or Audi over a Lexus.

[Trabi601]

Mr2Mike said:

Trabi601 said:

Because I have a tow-bar for bikes, I bought a modular Thule system which allows me to use the bike rack as a load platform, too - which is ideal for collecting stuff from Ikea / Currys etc., or taking stuff to the tip.

Whereas I can stick two full size mountain bikes in the back of my hatchback and still have room for plenty of other luggage, not an expensive Thule system in site.

I did that with my 1 series.

I scratched the bumper, got my hands dirty, and had to suffer the sound of it jiggling around in the back with my bags for a 4 hour drive.

It also meant the rear seats weren't usable, too.

99% of my driving is me, by myself, with some work stuff and an overnight bag. I really appreciate the extra refinement and lower emissions of the saloon over the estate - the only real alternative to me would have been to swap a 5 series saloon for a 4 series gran coupe. But there's a whole world of difference in quality and refinement between those two!

[techguyone]

I move a bit (a lot really) of furniture around, my CRV being a SUV has a bit of an interior height advantage over an estate, same length but taller. Lets me angle in things that would be a bit too long otherwise. I couldn't do that in an estate.

Not all SUV owners reasons for buying are based on fantasy

[Glasgowrob]

wouldn't be without an estate in my life, especially for family and household duties.

that said i'm not quite taken with the new Mondeo estate, its tiny. never really bothered looking closely before I ordered as I had a mk4 at the time and really didn't expect Ford to make it smaller but they have,


best buy on the market atm Skoda Superb estate. same size as the Mondeo but an extra 100 litres of bootspace and more legroom as well



oh and just to keep it on topic love big saloons too, (have an omega sitting as well)

[KarlMac]

The annoying thing is that the saloons that were sold on the JDM market during the 90s / 00s would sell like hot cakes now. Stuff like the Aristo, Chaser, Laurel etc...

Another thing we can blame the EU for!

[RobM77]

KarlMac said:

The annoying thing is that the saloons that were sold on the JDM market during the 90s / 00s would sell like hot cakes now. Stuff like the Aristo, Chaser, Laurel etc...

Another thing we can blame the EU for!

How is that anything to do with the EU? Isn't it a case of manufacturers choosing which cars they sell in which markets? Genuine question by the way, I'd always assumed it was a manufacturer choice.