Why is Japan not making saloons?

[Jimmy Recard]

KarlMac said:

The annoying thing is that the saloons that were sold on the JDM market during the 90s / 00s would sell like hot cakes now. Stuff like the Aristo, Chaser, Laurel etc...

Another thing we can blame the EU for!

I blame the Japanese car makers for crap names. Slang word for a posh person, a drink and the taller one from a comedy duo?

I do sometimes wonder how car names get approved and not only Japanese ones

[KarlMac]

RobM77 said:

KarlMac said:

The annoying thing is that the saloons that were sold on the JDM market during the 90s / 00s would sell like hot cakes now. Stuff like the Aristo, Chaser, Laurel etc...

Another thing we can blame the EU for!

How is that anything to do with the EU? Isn't it a case of manufacturers choosing which cars they sell in which markets? Genuine question by the way, I'd always assumed it was a manufacturer choice.

It was a bit of a joke to be fair, but mainly Europe's emissions laws and subsequent interest in diesels means a tiny market for big turbo power saloons.

Jimmy Recard said:

I blame the Japanese car makers for crap names. Slang word for a posh person, a drink and the taller one from a comedy duo?

I do sometimes wonder how car names get approved and not only Japanese ones

Case of Engrish I think. They like English names without fully understanding the meaning. Like when people have tramp stamps in Chinese.

[DegsyE39]

GroundEffect said:

The Focus Sedan is a good looking thing:

Looks like an upturned bath

[RobM77]

DegsyE39 said:

GroundEffect said:

The Focus Sedan is a good looking thing:

Looks like an upturned bath

Yes, it looks st. This is PH though and we must praise all things Ford

[bmwmike]

I've got an f10 saloon and the boot is massive. The estate version I did consider but it's pretty much the same useable size as the saloon but squarer and the seats fold down. As I have kids, I'd never fold the rear seats. As the parcel shelf is fixed I can cram a lot into the boot space which would otherwise be pushing the flexible touring shelf up.

[RobM77]

bmwmike said:

I've got an f10 saloon and the boot is massive. The estate version I did consider but it's pretty much the same useable size as the saloon but squarer and the seats fold down. As I have kids, I'd never fold the rear seats. As the parcel shelf is fixed I can cram a lot into the boot space which would otherwise be pushing the flexible touring shelf up.

Folding rear seats is an option on the saloon and the coupé. I wouldn't be without it.

[Mr2Mike]

RobM77 said:

Folding rear seats is an option on the saloon and the coupé. I wouldn't be without it.

That implies there's no bulkhead between the boot and passenger compartment, which at least partially negates the only real advantage that has been mentioned here i.e. road noise. You might as well have a proper hatch so you can put large things into the large luggage space.

[s m]

Mr2Mike said:

RobM77 said:

Folding rear seats is an option on the saloon and the coupé. I wouldn't be without it.

That implies there's no bulkhead between the boot and passenger compartment, which at least partially negates the only real advantage that has been mentioned here i.e. road noise. You might as well have a proper hatch so you can put large things into the large luggage space.

You're right Mike, both the E36 and E46 saloons I had both had folding rear seats and effectively only a metal parcel shelf bracing the C-pillars. I did find the feature useful on occasion and, as they were 328/330 models you found you had a pleasant increase in exhaust noise into the cabin with 1 or both rears folded.

I had a Primera p11 GT hatch and that was similar, no rear bulkhead with folding rears. I did look at a rarer P11 GT saloon which also had folding rears but still had a vestige of a rear bulkhead albeit with an oval-shaped hole to allow through loads. I never bought it as the bulkhead would have restricted its usefulness I thought - got the hatch instead.

[Pints]

I prefer the saloon. So there.

[RenesisEvo]

Pints said:

I prefer the saloon. So there.

Seconded. And the saloon is lighter (according to Mazda's specs anyway).

[RobM77]

Mr2Mike said:

RobM77 said:

Folding rear seats is an option on the saloon and the coupé. I wouldn't be without it.

That implies there's no bulkhead between the boot and passenger compartment, which at least partially negates the only real advantage that has been mentioned here i.e. road noise.

The division between cabin and boot is the steel backed seats with foam padding, which provides effective sound insulation. A bulkhead as part of the car's monocoque wouldn't really make any difference. Anyway, that's the same between hatchback and saloon and missing the key difference entirely, which is what happens rearward of that division: with a hatchback the boot (and wheelarches, source of much of the noise) is effectively in the cabin, separated only by a thin parcel shelf. With a saloon the cabin stops before the boot, so the boot is outside of the cabin altogether out in the fresh air - that's actually the definition of a saloon or a hatchback and that's what gives the hatchback that little bit of extra space and the higher loading area. It's also what makes the saloon more refined.

Mr2Mike said:

You might as well have a proper hatch so you can put large things into the large luggage space.

You're right, yes; in an ideal world if you're designing a car from scratch a hatchback is probably a preferable option on balance for most people, yes, which is why hatchbacks are virtually ubiquitous now. However, some cars, for whatever reason, only come as a saloon or an estate, so the buyer doesn't have the choice. However, there are far more important things I worry about with a car, so it's clearly a matter of personal priorities. If you can find me a well balanced rear drive saloon with a manual gearbox, a low CofG and a low roof line and a hatchback for the same money as my 3 series saloon and for the same weight, then yes, I'd probably buy it. No such car exists though, and I prioritise those other things in front of saving the odd few seconds lifting my bike in and out or a set of tyres. If, like a friend of mine at work, I put my bike in the car every day, it would be a different story. Whist I use my car's practicality fully (towing, roof rack, filling the back etc, all on a weekly basis), I don't think I'd gain that much by having that extra vertical space. It's a very personal thing.

[Trabi601]

Glasgowrob said:

wouldn't be without an estate in my life, especially for family and household duties.

that said i'm not quite taken with the new Mondeo estate, its tiny. never really bothered looking closely before I ordered as I had a mk4 at the time and really didn't expect Ford to make it smaller but they have,

Tiny?

I have one as a hire car at the moment. It's bloody vast. I can't reach the backs of the seats from the tailgate.

Hateful heap of poor quality junk, though. Ford's idea of luxury is to throw a load of cheap gadgets at a car, rather than concentrate on materials, fit and finish.

[Car Fan]

I prefer the styling of saloons and booted coupes, and, to me, they do seem to be more refined than the equivalent hatchback. I do currently drive a hatchback, and the wider boot entrance and ease of parking compared to a saloon is useful, but I don't think it looks as good as a four door.

If I had a need to carry bulky items then I'd drive an estate, but I've never particularly wanted one.

I like that Mazda offer a 3 saloon alongside the hatchback; I think they are the only mainstream manufacturer to do so in the UK. FWIW I think the Focus saloon posted above looks decent, and I'd have it over the hatch if it was available here.

One thing I've noticed is that saloons are quite popular in Ireland - does anybody know why this is? I know that you can buy a Toyota Corolla saloon, Focus saloon, Astra saloon, etc over there - do Irish buyers perceive saloons as being 'better'?

[caelite]

Is it just me who reckons the 'looks' side of it is entirely down to the car?

If I where getting a focus it would be a hatch
Big volvo? NEEDS to be an estate
Merc cls? Saloon it is

The styling of each car seems to suit certain bodies better.

[RobM77]

caelite said:

Is it just me who reckons the 'looks' side of it is entirely down to the car?

If I where getting a focus it would be a hatch
Big volvo? NEEDS to be an estate
Merc cls? Saloon it is

The styling of each car seems to suit certain bodies better.

Without a doubt. You also get vastly more space with some designs. Volvos have a really practical loading area, whereas the 3 series for example doesn't give you a huge amount more than the saloon (although it's way easier to get bikes etc in though).