Any Porsche track day folk use air suspension set ups?
Discussion
Just a general question if any folk on here have opted for either an Airlift or Air Dynamiks set up on their car and how does it compare to say a decent coiler set up such as H&R or KW's??
I have a Gen 1 GT3 and have been looking in to changing over to an Air Dynamiks system with a V2 digital management system.
Seems to offer a lot more and and very comparable to a decent KW3 set up price wise.
Fully adjustable dampening and would offer the ability to lower the car at the touch of a button when on a track day.
I have a Gen 1 GT3 and have been looking in to changing over to an Air Dynamiks system with a V2 digital management system.
Seems to offer a lot more and and very comparable to a decent KW3 set up price wise.
Fully adjustable dampening and would offer the ability to lower the car at the touch of a button when on a track day.
This is the future. Available for all 997 with PASM. Miles ahead of competition at the mo...
http://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/90227...
http://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/90227...
Coxy914 said:
IMI A said:
Stick to passive dampers...don't ruin the car.
why would you suggest that it would ruin the car when a lot more people are opting for running air suspension on track cars?You have to remember when changing the height that the suspension geometry will also be changing.
Other than that, setups of similar price a coilover will always be better, but air suspension setups can be and are competitive. The bag is of course a progressive spring as well, the more air is in the bag the stiffer it becomes.
Practicality is great but the only way I can see to use it is have one height for driving, and then the rest are for getting over speed bumps etc, and then parking it as low as possible. I can't see how you could have 2 driving heights one for road and one for track without having a compromise on the geometry. increased camber would be a welcome addition from a lower track height, but not sure about how the toe etc would effect handling.
Other than that, setups of similar price a coilover will always be better, but air suspension setups can be and are competitive. The bag is of course a progressive spring as well, the more air is in the bag the stiffer it becomes.
Practicality is great but the only way I can see to use it is have one height for driving, and then the rest are for getting over speed bumps etc, and then parking it as low as possible. I can't see how you could have 2 driving heights one for road and one for track without having a compromise on the geometry. increased camber would be a welcome addition from a lower track height, but not sure about how the toe etc would effect handling.
Digitalize said:
You have to remember when changing the height that the suspension geometry will also be changing.
Other than that, setups of similar price a coilover will always be better, but air suspension setups can be and are competitive. The bag is of course a progressive spring as well, the more air is in the bag the stiffer it becomes.
Practicality is great but the only way I can see to use it is have one height for driving, and then the rest are for getting over speed bumps etc, and then parking it as low as possible. I can't see how you could have 2 driving heights one for road and one for track without having a compromise on the geometry. increased camber would be a welcome addition from a lower track height, but not sure about how the toe etc would effect handling.
price for a full air set up is comparable to a KW3 coil over set up, about £3500 all in for the GT3Other than that, setups of similar price a coilover will always be better, but air suspension setups can be and are competitive. The bag is of course a progressive spring as well, the more air is in the bag the stiffer it becomes.
Practicality is great but the only way I can see to use it is have one height for driving, and then the rest are for getting over speed bumps etc, and then parking it as low as possible. I can't see how you could have 2 driving heights one for road and one for track without having a compromise on the geometry. increased camber would be a welcome addition from a lower track height, but not sure about how the toe etc would effect handling.
Yeah I know how much the setup is.
What I'm saying is the air setup that's £3500 is probably comparable to a £1000 coilover setup, in performance.
Air Lift's dampers aren't anything hugely special, they're just a nicely made dampening adjustable damper with a camber adjustable top mount.
I don't know anyone who runs an air setup specifically for track, but I know people who have them on performance cars as well as show cars.
V2 isn't the best controller wise either, their new 3P offers a lot more control and is much simpler to use. 3H adds height which I've heard can help with cornering as it levels during cornering, helping to keep the car flat.
What I'm saying is the air setup that's £3500 is probably comparable to a £1000 coilover setup, in performance.
Air Lift's dampers aren't anything hugely special, they're just a nicely made dampening adjustable damper with a camber adjustable top mount.
I don't know anyone who runs an air setup specifically for track, but I know people who have them on performance cars as well as show cars.
V2 isn't the best controller wise either, their new 3P offers a lot more control and is much simpler to use. 3H adds height which I've heard can help with cornering as it levels during cornering, helping to keep the car flat.
I have spent a long time setting up damper and geo combinations on GT3's. My advice is to pick a damper that already has this work done. Ie, the optimum damping set ups have already been established to combine with optimum geo set ups in a performance window from soft (fast road) to sharp (race)by an idiot like me. That way you know what you are buying will work with pre established set ups. If you don't, you will need high skill levels as a driver, a big budget to run for several days at track days and a very good engineer to try and translate everything into a propper package.
In the world of damping, always buy something proven, supplied by a team that have the track record to provide the geo and bump/rebound settings that will work for you.
In the world of damping, always buy something proven, supplied by a team that have the track record to provide the geo and bump/rebound settings that will work for you.
hondansx said:
Is this a windup?
Air suspension is for show cars. They are a lot of effort and will break just being used as a road car, let alone being used on track!
You can get axle lift kits from both KW (known as HLS) and Techart.
I have had four road cars with air suspension over a 10 year stretch, and done 150k miles collectively without issue.Air suspension is for show cars. They are a lot of effort and will break just being used as a road car, let alone being used on track!
You can get axle lift kits from both KW (known as HLS) and Techart.
Porsche themselves use it on Cayennes and Panameras.
They are generally very reliable.
hondansx said:
Is this a windup?
Air suspension is for show cars. They are a lot of effort and will break just being used as a road car, let alone being used on track!
You can get axle lift kits from both KW (known as HLS) and Techart.
No, it's not a wind up. Genuine question. Air is not just for show cars and that's why I raised the question. However, it is relatively new for people using it on track carsAir suspension is for show cars. They are a lot of effort and will break just being used as a road car, let alone being used on track!
You can get axle lift kits from both KW (known as HLS) and Techart.
Worth watching as it might start to change peoples perceptions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dQgT5g84ag&fe...
Why would it?
It is a comparison video from a company WHO MAKES AIR SUSPENSION. So hardly impartial, is it? No reference to which 'coilovers' they are using, or relative spring rates etc. If the kids commenting on the YouTube video are questioning the neutrality of the video, you are either naive, or must have a vested interest.
Anyway, my argument is not about better vs worse; my point was that for pounding around a track all day you want simplicity - the less that can go wrong, the better. Aftermarket kits will not be as reliable as OEM air suspension and it's rather telling that a conventional setup is almost always an option as an upgrade from manufacturers. Take my RS6; air suspension is standard, whilst springs/dampers are an optional extra.
It is a comparison video from a company WHO MAKES AIR SUSPENSION. So hardly impartial, is it? No reference to which 'coilovers' they are using, or relative spring rates etc. If the kids commenting on the YouTube video are questioning the neutrality of the video, you are either naive, or must have a vested interest.
Anyway, my argument is not about better vs worse; my point was that for pounding around a track all day you want simplicity - the less that can go wrong, the better. Aftermarket kits will not be as reliable as OEM air suspension and it's rather telling that a conventional setup is almost always an option as an upgrade from manufacturers. Take my RS6; air suspension is standard, whilst springs/dampers are an optional extra.
Does a GT3 need lifting to use on the road? I run GT3 heights on my 996 and don't have any problems.
I think EXE-TC do a 1-way adjustable for just over the price of those KW v3s. You'd be hard-pushed to beat them; they've just updated them to give a superb balance of ride and handling.
I think EXE-TC do a 1-way adjustable for just over the price of those KW v3s. You'd be hard-pushed to beat them; they've just updated them to give a superb balance of ride and handling.
EGTE said:
Does a GT3 need lifting to use on the road? I run GT3 heights on my 996 and don't have any problems.
I think EXE-TC do a 1-way adjustable for just over the price of those KW v3s. You'd be hard-pushed to beat them; they've just updated them to give a superb balance of ride and handling.
I struggle to get my daily C4S down the lane where I live let alone the GT3! For me, I've been weighing up the options of usability all round.I think EXE-TC do a 1-way adjustable for just over the price of those KW v3s. You'd be hard-pushed to beat them; they've just updated them to give a superb balance of ride and handling.
A number of the recent RWB cars are running very large power (700bhp++) with Air dynamiks set ups and being used for the purpose they have been built for.
Coxy914 said:
A number of the recent RWB cars are running very large power (700bhp++) with Air dynamiks set ups and being used for the purpose they have been built for.
Most RWB builds are trailer queens; not daily drivers let alone track cars. Their power output is largely irrelevant (though FWIW, most of them are mechanically unmodified anyway).Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff