EU army - Farage yet again seems to be right

EU army - Farage yet again seems to be right

Author
Discussion

Welshbeef

Original Poster:

49,633 posts

197 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/22/eu-summ...


So from a no it's never ever going to happen and is all make believe by Farage to being actually a much much more real reality.


Hmm.

What say those who didn't believe it?

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
I'm sorry-could you please point out where an army is mentioned by anyone?

Welshbeef

Original Poster:

49,633 posts

197 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
http://www.telegraph.co.uk


Scroll down and you'll see the summery.

gooner1

10,223 posts

178 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
cookie118 said:
I'm sorry-could you please point out where an army is mentioned by anyone?
“I also insisted on defence, because we want to ensure that there is greater co-ordination there, extra means and forces.” Plans to press ahead with a so-called “EU army” will be easier now that the UK has decided to leave the bloc, a former head of the Italian military said.

Right there.

Derek Smith

45,512 posts

247 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
It seems that they want closer cooperation to combat the terrorist attacks. There were a couple of digs against the UK for blocking these moves, which we could then do. We can't now of course.

Can't see the problem with sharing information and intelligence.


anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
And was it said by anyone with real power? By anyone at the summit? No.

And does it sound like the UK had a veto on it which leavers constantly said we didn't? Yes
It appears that it's yet another instance of the leavers lies unraveling.

gooner1

10,223 posts

178 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
cookie118 said:
And was it said by anyone with real power? By anyone at the summit? No.


As it doesn't actually state who the statement came from, that's difficult to answer, so I suppose each camp will put their own slant on it.

And does it sound like the UK had a veto on it which leavers constantly said we didn't? Yes
It appears that it's yet another instance of the leavers lies unraveling.

Some might say the veto was exercised when the votes were counted up.

PH XKR

1,761 posts

101 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
cookie118 said:
And was it said by anyone with real power? By anyone at the summit? No.

And does it sound like the UK had a veto on it which leavers constantly said we didn't? Yes
It appears that it's yet another instance of the leavers lies unraveling.
It is amazing to watch you remainers deny what is right in front of their eyes. You claim it is not an official announcement so it cannot be true and yet you then claim we must have had a veto, how did we have a veto if it wasn't happening and isn't true?

And Derek, you of all people will understand the issues with intelligence sharing. When the French interior cannot even share information internally, likewise the Belgian, the Dutch, the Germans and lolz the Italians, how do you see this as working? It will become very much a clandestine effort seen by national services as a bd love child. Intel will flow at the same speed as it does now and the UK will be no better or worse off for being out of the EU.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
PH XKR said:
It is amazing to watch you remainers deny what is right in front of their eyes. You claim it is not an official announcement so it cannot be true and yet you then claim we must have had a veto, how did we have a veto if it wasn't happening and isn't true?

And Derek, you of all people will understand the issues with intelligence sharing. When the French interior cannot even share information internally, likewise the Belgian, the Dutch, the Germans and lolz the Italians, how do you see this as working? It will become very much a clandestine effort seen by national services as a bd love child. Intel will flow at the same speed as it does now and the UK will be no better or worse off for being out of the EU.
It's funny-on a second reading 'EU Army' is actually a phrase used by the telegraph.
No-one (not even the ex chief of general staff) mentions the phrase.

don4l

10,058 posts

175 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
cookie118 said:
It's funny-on a second reading 'EU Army' is actually a phrase used by the telegraph.
No-one (not even the ex chief of general staff) mentions the phrase.
It is irrelevant now, as Britain is leaving the EU.

BTW, the phrase "EU Army" gets 55,200,000 hits in Google. Most of them are not from the Telegraph.




PH XKR

1,761 posts

101 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
cookie118 said:
PH XKR said:
It is amazing to watch you remainers deny what is right in front of their eyes. You claim it is not an official announcement so it cannot be true and yet you then claim we must have had a veto, how did we have a veto if it wasn't happening and isn't true?

And Derek, you of all people will understand the issues with intelligence sharing. When the French interior cannot even share information internally, likewise the Belgian, the Dutch, the Germans and lolz the Italians, how do you see this as working? It will become very much a clandestine effort seen by national services as a bd love child. Intel will flow at the same speed as it does now and the UK will be no better or worse off for being out of the EU.
It's funny-on a second reading 'EU Army' is actually a phrase used by the telegraph.
No-one (not even the ex chief of general staff) mentions the phrase.
Is a Refuse Consultant not just a bin man? Is a sales executive not just a salesman? Is an Escort not just a prostitute?

AJL308

6,390 posts

155 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
cookie118 said:
It's funny-on a second reading 'EU Army' is actually a phrase used by the telegraph.
No-one (not even the ex chief of general staff) mentions the phrase.
Well, they wouldn't, would they! That's not how controversial politics is done. If they said "We want an EU military force by 2xxx" then all hell would break loose and it would be immediately stepped on.

If they say, "Well, it's just information sharing and joint planning to combat terrorism" then that's all fine. The next step is, "Well, look, we're already doing this info sharing and joint planning thing - why not do a few military exercises together under one command?"

Something then kicks off on Europe's borders somewhere - or is "sexed up" to look more worrying that it actually is. Perhaps around the time one of these exercises is taking place and it's "Well, we've got all these troops ready we'll just send them over - it'll all be over by Christmas" and the EU get's it'self into a little skirmish for while.

"Phew wasn't it lucky that we had all those soldiers ready to go when that happened, what a good idea it would be if they were permanently ready". And a standing EU armed force appears from no where.

Everyone knows that this is the way it will go and anyone who says differently is kidding themselves. And, yes, many people have been saying that this was going to happen for years - including Farage. Like him or loathe him he's been right on many things.

Another massive reason why we are best off out of the whole rotten thing.

b2hbm

1,291 posts

221 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
cookie118 said:
And was it said by anyone with real power? By anyone at the summit? No.
And does it sound like the UK had a veto on it which leavers constantly said we didn't? Yes
It appears that it's yet another instance of the leavers lies unraveling.
As regards a UK Veto, surely that only comes into force when something comes up for a vote ? Saying "I don't agree" during a meeting doesn't constitute a veto, it expresses an opinion.

My understanding is that in all the discussions regarding a common EU defence force, information sharing, etc, the UK has said they didn't want to participate. There was no suggestion of the UK preventing the other EU states from joining together to share data, collect guns or whatever. It appears to me they didn't want to do that unless the Uk would pitch in with our intelligence services and forces.

And as we didn't want to join that club they wouldn't start it up on their own, presumably because they wanted a UK contribution of either forces or financing. But after the Brexit vote they have no reason not to move forwards and I doubt anyone in the UK or USA has a problem with that.


Puggit

48,354 posts

247 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
There were a couple of digs against the UK for blocking these moves, which we could then do. We can't now of course.
Why not?

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
PH XKR said:
It is amazing to watch you remainers deny what is right in front of their eyes. You claim it is not an official announcement so it cannot be true and yet you then claim we must have had a veto, how did we have a veto if it wasn't happening and isn't true?

And Derek, you of all people will understand the issues with intelligence sharing. When the French interior cannot even share information internally, likewise the Belgian, the Dutch, the Germans and lolz the Italians, how do you see this as working? It will become very much a clandestine effort seen by national services as a bd love child. Intel will flow at the same speed as it does now and the UK will be no better or worse off for being out of the EU.
PH XKR with all of his experience knows that UK, intel-wise, will be no better or worse off out of the EU.
Dearlove, the head of MI6 at the time of infamous Iraqi dosier, thinks that UK will be better off (wrong on ECHR but that's for another thread).
On the other hand, Nigel Inkster, David Omand, Lady Manningham-Buller, John Sawers and John Scarlett all think that UK will be worse off. But, we don't need experts, do we. What do they know after all.

rofl


Murph7355

37,649 posts

255 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
cookie118 said:
It's funny-on a second reading 'EU Army' is actually a phrase used by the telegraph.
No-one (not even the ex chief of general staff) mentions the phrase.
I'm more than happy to be accused of tin foil hattery, but the EU leadership has always been very careful about the terminology it uses and how and when it uses it. Perhaps the biggest example being how the previous referendum here was played - ask anyone who voted then whether they were aware of the federal intent of the EU and I suspect nigh on nobody would nod.

If it walks like a duck etc...

I refuse to believe that the UK blocked anything it felt was effective with regards terrorism. But I can imagine we blocked hare brained nonsense. I'm inclined to believe our security forces are a cut above most/all those in the other EU countries.


bad company

18,483 posts

265 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
As the op says Farage was right.

Just waiting for the Remoaners to blame Brexit on our failure to win more Olympic medals than the USA. wink

gooner1

10,223 posts

178 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
PH XKR with all of his experience knows that UK, intel-wise, will be no better or worse off out of the EU.
Dearlove, the head of MI6 at the time of infamous Iraqi dosier, thinks that UK will be better off (wrong on ECHR but that's for another thread).
On the other hand, Nigel Inkster, David Omand, Lady Manningham-Buller, John Sawers and John Scarlett all think that UK will be worse off. But, we don't need experts, do we. What do they know after all.

rofl
Like all the experts that predicted a Remain result you mean? 😱😱😱

number 46

1,019 posts

247 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
This is starting to seem like recent history repeating itself isn't it?

1920's Coke fueled excess, every nights a party
1928/30 Stock market crash/depression
1935 on Large standing army builds up in Europe, purely for defence lead by a short chubby German
1939.... World War

1980's Coke fueled excess, every nigh is a party
2009 Stock Market crash/depression
2017 Large standing army is suggested purely for defence, most powerful leader is a short chubby German!!!

oh Dear!!!!

Which way will she go East or West????

Smollet

10,465 posts

189 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
number 46 said:
This is starting to seem like recent history repeating itself isn't it?

1920's Coke fueled excess, every nights a party
1928/30 Stock market crash/depression
1935 on Large standing army builds up in Europe, purely for defence lead by a short chubby German
1939.... World War

1980's Coke fueled excess, every nigh is a party
2009 Stock Market crash/depression
2017 Large standing army is suggested purely for defence, most powerful leader is a short chubby German!!!

oh Dear!!!!

Which way will she go East or West????
South. laugh