Why you shouldn't give cyclist a wide berth when passing

[slk 32]

Antony Moxey said:

slk 32 said:

spookly said:

DoubleD said:

g7jhp said:

I drive and I cycle. There are idiots in both camps.

Cycling two a breast is usually dangerous and best saved for quieter roads. If a car comes you go single file and let it past as soon as it is safe to do so.

When I'm driving I always overtake with an extra wide arc as I would with horses.

It's not hard to show consideration as a driver or a cycling, it's common sense.

Warning, sensible comment alert

That is very sensible.

So, is it antisocial to be riding in big packs of cyclists, as they are near impossible to overtake?

Round here the problem isn't so much a lone cyclist, it's that they all meet up and go off in packs of anything from 4 up to 20 or more. Try getting past 10 or more cyclists, it won't matter whether they are 2 abreast or not, you'll be waiting a while.

The closest I've come to being killed on my bike was in Richmond Park. A huge gaggle of 20 cyclists were riding 2/3 abreast leading to an irate range rover driver overtaking on a series of bends missing me by inches coming the other way.

Whose fault was it?

The cyclists for thinking they own the road or the range rover driver for the frustrated dangerous overtake?

Both are at fault but I would say more rests with the cyclists for riding in that manner.

As per some earlier posts we should break down the boundaries and see ourselves all as road users with equal rights. Courtesy and consideration for others is key. In 2000 miles I've been on the bike I've only had two other incidents , both older drivers overtaking closer than I would expect . .no doubt due to age related spatial awareness issues.

What? So an oncoming vehicle narrowly misses you after overtaking slower moving traffic through a series of bends and it's more the fault of the slower moving traffic than the idiot racing towards you on your side of the road? Riiiiiiiiiiight....

Both are in the wrong. If the cyclists hadn't behaved like they were the only road users it wouldn't have happened. As I mentioned earlier it's all about courtesy and consideration for others, something which seems to be lacking.

If I'm in the car and can't overtake giving the cyclist a wide berth I'll hang back until I can, another 30 seconds on my journey is no big deal

One thing being on a bike has taught me is don't presume you can hear cars approaching from behind . .Once you get past 25mph wind noise is pretty much all you can hear

[Finlandia]

walm said:

Finlandia said:

will_ said:

Anyone with half a brain knows that there's never an excuse to drive dangerously around vulnerable road users - however badly they might be behaving.

What about when it's the vulnerable road user with less than half a brain who puts himself in the dangerous spot, without the other ever knowing they are there in the blind spot?

Well you should definitely try to teach them a lesson by running them off the road when you do notice them.

Your example is not adding anything to the debate.

People take unnecessary risks on the road every day, not just cyclists.

Not adding to the debate?

Taking unnecessary risks when you are protected by electronics, airbags, seat belts and crumple zones in a metal box is not clever, but taking the same risks when the only protection you have is the clothing you wear is something entirely different.

[Finlandia]

yonex said:

Finlandia said:

What about when it's the vulnerable road user with less than half a brain who puts himself in the dangerous spot, without the other ever knowing they are there in the blind spot?

Do you randomly run small children over, they are vulnerable, and have less than a usual amount of common sense, or, do you make allowances? This all comes down to poor skill levels and a lack of respect for others. Still, PH is all about being 'right'

I make allowances for all road users and make sure I don't inconvenience anyone regardless of my mode of transport, sadly the same cannot be said about many cyclists around here.

[anonymous-user]

Finlandia said:

I make allowances for all road users and make sure I don't inconvenience anyone regardless of my mode of transport, sadly the same cannot be said about many cyclists around here.

Your point being that there are good and bad cyclists, as there are drivers. Add to this human error and that just about covers this topic I think.

[Hoofy]

andykram said:

As a keen cyclist and owner of three cars I am very courteous to both sets of road users when I'm riding or driving. I regularly ride sportives and my experience of these are that we are very aware of traffic and let drivers past. On a recent sportive I was in the middle of quite a large peleton on a country road and we were riding in a bunch across the whole road. However, every time a car came towards or from behind us the rider at the front or the back called out and we all moved to single file to let the car past. All the rides I've done have been like that. It's common courtesy and awareness and, as many people have said on this thread, I'm supportive of the OP purely for the discourtesy of the cyclists. It would have taken them 10 seconds to pull in behind one another, let the car past and then go back to side by side and their chat.
Again, as has been said several times, I think it's a wider issue of society and the fact that so many people these days are just plain ignorant, be it on a bike, in a car, misbehaving on public transport etc. Or maybe it's just me who's getting old.....??????

Bloody hell. I'm glad I read that. Bit like reading Chicken Soup for the Soul.

[Finlandia]

yonex said:

Finlandia said:

I make allowances for all road users and make sure I don't inconvenience anyone regardless of my mode of transport, sadly the same cannot be said about many cyclists around here.

Your point being that there are good and bad cyclists, as there are drivers. Add to this human error and that just about covers this topic I think.

True I suppose, still it's odd that it's mainly cyclists around these parts that are bad and make errors. Is it lack of training/education, self righteousness, green ideals of saving the planet and making the filthy cars pay for their actions, or something else, I don't know.

[walm]

Finlandia said:

Not adding to the debate?

Taking unnecessary risks when you are protected by electronics, airbags, seat belts and crumple zones in a metal box is not clever, but taking the same risks when the only protection you have is the clothing you wear is something entirely different.

Lots of road users take unnecessary risks.
When drivers get it wrong they endanger OTHER PEOPLE.
That simply isn't true of cyclists (in 99.9% of cases).

Seriously - trying to single out cyclists here is obviously a complete falsehood and adds nothing.

[walm]

Finlandia said:

True I suppose, still it's odd that it's mainly cyclists around these parts that are bad and make errors.

In your opinion.

I would love to see some stats that back that up.

[anonymous-user]

andykram said:

Again, as has been said several times, I think it's a wider issue of society and the fact that so many people these days are just plain ignorant, be it on a bike, in a car, misbehaving on public transport etc. Or maybe it's just me who's getting old.....??????

That sums it up I think. You do notice it more the older you get though

[Hoofy]

Grahamdub said:

andykram said:

Again, as has been said several times, I think it's a wider issue of society and the fact that so many people these days are just plain ignorant, be it on a bike, in a car, misbehaving on public transport etc. Or maybe it's just me who's getting old.....??????

That sums it up I think. You do notice it more the older you get though

Oh. Damn.

[Antony Moxey]

slk 32 said:

Antony Moxey said:

slk 32 said:

spookly said:

DoubleD said:

g7jhp said:

I drive and I cycle. There are idiots in both camps.

Cycling two a breast is usually dangerous and best saved for quieter roads. If a car comes you go single file and let it past as soon as it is safe to do so.

When I'm driving I always overtake with an extra wide arc as I would with horses.

It's not hard to show consideration as a driver or a cycling, it's common sense.

Warning, sensible comment alert

That is very sensible.

So, is it antisocial to be riding in big packs of cyclists, as they are near impossible to overtake?

Round here the problem isn't so much a lone cyclist, it's that they all meet up and go off in packs of anything from 4 up to 20 or more. Try getting past 10 or more cyclists, it won't matter whether they are 2 abreast or not, you'll be waiting a while.

The closest I've come to being killed on my bike was in Richmond Park. A huge gaggle of 20 cyclists were riding 2/3 abreast leading to an irate range rover driver overtaking on a series of bends missing me by inches coming the other way.

Whose fault was it?

The cyclists for thinking they own the road or the range rover driver for the frustrated dangerous overtake?

Both are at fault but I would say more rests with the cyclists for riding in that manner.

As per some earlier posts we should break down the boundaries and see ourselves all as road users with equal rights. Courtesy and consideration for others is key. In 2000 miles I've been on the bike I've only had two other incidents , both older drivers overtaking closer than I would expect . .no doubt due to age related spatial awareness issues.

What? So an oncoming vehicle narrowly misses you after overtaking slower moving traffic through a series of bends and it's more the fault of the slower moving traffic than the idiot racing towards you on your side of the road? Riiiiiiiiiiight....

Both are in the wrong. If the cyclists hadn't behaved like they were the only road users it wouldn't have happened. As I mentioned earlier it's all about courtesy and consideration for others, something which seems to be lacking.

If I'm in the car and can't overtake giving the cyclist a wide berth I'll hang back until I can, another 30 seconds on my journey is no big deal

One thing being on a bike has taught me is don't presume you can hear cars approaching from behind . .Once you get past 25mph wind noise is pretty much all you can hear

No, only the Range Rover driver is in the wrong. For all the poor guy who was nearly run over by two tons of metal charging at him on the wrong side of the road our driving god may just have happened upon the bunch and is simply one of those idiots who thinks everyone should move for him because he's the most important person on the road. Of course he might also have been behind them for miles but either way, overtaking on bends and nearly taking out someone coming the other way is definitely no-one else's fault except said driving hero.

[mdavids]

Finlandia said:

True I suppose, still it's odd that it's mainly cyclists around these parts that are bad and make errors. Is it lack of training/education, self righteousness, green ideals of saving the planet and making the filthy cars pay for their actions, or something else, I don't know.

Sounds like you're just projecting to be honest, maybe too much daily mail and a bit of confirmation bias. Most of the cyclists I know are, like myself, none of those things. We all drive, aren't into the 'green' thing and not in the least bit anti-car, just anti-dhead. It stops me turning into a middle age porker and saves me money. I enjoy driving more because I'm not using my car to commute every day.

Just get used to it, cyclists aren't going to disappear from the roads so learn to deal with them. You probably spend the vast majority of your time in a car held up by traffic and slower moving drivers, waiting a few extra seconds to overtake the odd cyclist safely is in most cases not going to increase your journey time.

As for the OP, you happened across a couple of knobheads, thats just modern life. Tarring everyone with the same brush because of their mode of transport just makes you look like a moron.

[Antony Moxey]

Finlandia said:

yonex said:

Finlandia said:

What about when it's the vulnerable road user with less than half a brain who puts himself in the dangerous spot, without the other ever knowing they are there in the blind spot?

Do you randomly run small children over, they are vulnerable, and have less than a usual amount of common sense, or, do you make allowances? This all comes down to poor skill levels and a lack of respect for others. Still, PH is all about being 'right'

I make allowances for all road users and make sure I don't inconvenience anyone regardless of my mode of transport, sadly the same cannot be said about many cyclists around here.

No-one's ever come up behind you, ever in your entire driving history?

[walm]

Antony Moxey said:

Finlandia said:

I make allowances for all road users and make sure I don't inconvenience anyone regardless of my mode of transport, sadly the same cannot be said about many cyclists around here.

No-one's ever come up behind you, ever in your entire driving history?

Finlandia is an HGV driver IIRC so we know that's a lie!

[will_]

Finlandia said:

will_ said:

Anyone with half a brain knows that there's never an excuse to drive dangerously around vulnerable road users - however badly they might be behaving.

What about when it's the vulnerable road user with less than half a brain who puts himself in the dangerous spot, without the other ever knowing they are there in the blind spot?

What about it? Do you just run them over?

[will_]

Antony Moxey said:

No, only the Range Rover driver is in the wrong. For all the poor guy who was nearly run over by two tons of metal charging at him on the wrong side of the road our driving god may just have happened upon the bunch and is simply one of those idiots who thinks everyone should move for him because he's the most important person on the road. Of course he might also have been behind them for miles but either way, overtaking on bends and nearly taking out someone coming the other way is definitely no-one else's fault except said driving hero.

It's comical that someone's dangerous and bad driving is explained away because they lack the sufficient patience and competence to drive safely.

In what other circumstances is that anything less than a ridiculous position to take?

Oh, the nasty cyclists forced me to overtake dangerously!

There is no need to overtake, ever. If you do overtake, the onus is on you (as the overtaker) to do so properly and safely. What you are overtaking is entirely irrelevant.

[saaby93]

Hoofy said:

Grahamdub said:

andykram said:

Again, as has been said several times, I think it's a wider issue of society and the fact that so many people these days are just plain ignorant, be it on a bike, in a car, misbehaving on public transport etc. Or maybe it's just me who's getting old.....??????

That sums it up I think. You do notice it more the older you get though

Oh. Damn.

I think this may be the star post

[Finlandia]

walm said:

Finlandia said:

True I suppose, still it's odd that it's mainly cyclists around these parts that are bad and make errors.

In your opinion.

I would love to see some stats that back that up.

Stats here say, 3,000 cycling accidents a year result in hospitalisation of 24h or more, 87% of cycling accidents are single cyclist or cyclist on cyclist accidents.

mdavids said:

Sounds like you're just projecting to be honest, maybe too much daily mail and a bit of confirmation bias.

DM isn't available here These are my own observations.

walm said:

Antony Moxey said:

Finlandia said:

I make allowances for all road users and make sure I don't inconvenience anyone regardless of my mode of transport, sadly the same cannot be said about many cyclists around here.

No-one's ever come up behind you, ever in your entire driving history?

Finlandia is an HGV driver IIRC so we know that's a lie!

Occasionally I drive a lorry yes, and I keep out of the way for others and help with overtakes as much as I can, same goes for when I'm out cycling, when in the car I usually don't keep anyone up.

will_ said:

Finlandia said:

will_ said:

Anyone with half a brain knows that there's never an excuse to drive dangerously around vulnerable road users - however badly they might be behaving.

What about when it's the vulnerable road user with less than half a brain who puts himself in the dangerous spot, without the other ever knowing they are there in the blind spot?

What about it? Do you just run them over?

If you can't see them, the risk is they will be run over. You check mirrors, look around you and ahead, can't see anything, do you go or stay put?

[walm]

Finlandia said:

Stats here say, 3,000 cycling accidents a year result in hospitalisation of 24h or more.

What about other road users? You said it was "mainly" cyclists.

Here in the UK of the 1,700 road accident deaths 109 of them were cyclists. It's very obviously "mainly" cars.

Which is why I asked, because you just look like someone making stuff up.

[Antony Moxey]

Finlandia said:

walm said:

Antony Moxey said:

Finlandia said:

I make allowances for all road users and make sure I don't inconvenience anyone regardless of my mode of transport, sadly the same cannot be said about many cyclists around here.

No-one's ever come up behind you, ever in your entire driving history?

Finlandia is an HGV driver IIRC so we know that's a lie!

Occasionally I drive a lorry yes, and I keep out of the way for others and help with overtakes as much as I can, same goes for when I'm out cycling, when in the car I usually don't keep anyone up.

Sorry, I simply don't believe you. When you're driving your lorry you 'keep out of the way for other' every time. EVERY time. Really? Nope, I don't believe that for a second.