Why you shouldn't give cyclist a wide berth when passing

[Finlandia]

walm said:

Finlandia said:

Stats here say, 3,000 cycling accidents a year result in hospitalisation of 24h or more.

What about other road users? You said it was "mainly" cyclists.

Here in the UK of the 1,700 road accident deaths 109 of them were cyclists. It's very obviously "mainly" cars.

Which is why I asked, because you just look like someone making stuff up.

I said mainly bad and make errors, as a % of the total number of cyclists they are overrepresented in accident stats, and in 9 out of 10 accidents there are only cyclists involved.

[anonymous-user]

Finlandia said:

True I suppose, still it's odd that it's mainly cyclists around these parts that are bad and make errors. Is it lack of training/education, self righteousness, green ideals of saving the planet and making the filthy cars pay for their actions, or something else, I don't know.

So why the continued undercurrent with cycling. You can either see the issues for what they are, or you are actually looking for problems with a group of road users, which is it?

[walm]

Finlandia said:

walm said:

Finlandia said:

Stats here say, 3,000 cycling accidents a year result in hospitalisation of 24h or more.

What about other road users? You said it was "mainly" cyclists.

Here in the UK of the 1,700 road accident deaths 109 of them were cyclists. It's very obviously "mainly" cars.

Which is why I asked, because you just look like someone making stuff up.

I said mainly bad and make errors, as a % of the total number of cyclists they are overrepresented in accident stats, and in 9 out of 10 accidents there are only cyclists involved.

You are kidding right?

In 9 out of 10 CYCLING ACCIDENTS there are only cyclists involved.

Jesus Christ, read and understand YOUR OWN NUMBERS!!

[Finlandia]

Antony Moxey said:

Sorry, I simply don't believe you. When you're driving your lorry you 'keep out of the way for other' every time. EVERY time. Really? Nope, I don't believe that for a second.

A lorry is allowed to drive at 90kph, most roads here are limited to 50, 70 or 80kph, the ones with higher limits are dual carriageways.

[vz-r_dave]

I cycle to work, Camden down to Hammersmith, never have any problems with cars, buses, lorries etc. However I am not one of those lycra clad try hard's who believe they have a right to behave however they like. (Most seem to have a massive chip on their shoulder) The worst by far is the outer circle in Regents park..... serious morons who are hated by pedestrians as much as they are by vehicle drivers..... a close second to clueless women riding Boris bikes whilst facebooking......

[Antony Moxey]

Finlandia said:

Antony Moxey said:

Sorry, I simply don't believe you. When you're driving your lorry you 'keep out of the way for other' every time. EVERY time. Really? Nope, I don't believe that for a second.

A lorry is allowed to drive at 90kph, most roads here are limited to 50, 70 or 80kph, the ones with higher limits are dual carriageways.

So you only travel at exactly the speed limit, every time you're in your lorry, whether going up hill or down hill, around bends etc to ensure you keep out of the way of other road users and never inconvenience them? Ever. In your lorry.

[Finlandia]

yonex said:

So why the continued undercurrent with cycling. You can either see the issues for what they are, or you are actually looking for problems with a group of road users, which is it?

Not looking for problems, it just seems like many cyclists here are out to cause problems for other road users, I would like to know/understand why.

walm said:

You are kidding right?

In 9 out of 10 CYCLING ACCIDENTS there are only cyclists involved.

Jesus Christ, read and understand YOUR OWN NUMBERS!!

Jesus won't help you. Cyclists are overrepresented in road accidents, and most of the accidents involving a cyclist are caused by the cyclist.

[Finlandia]

Antony Moxey said:

Finlandia said:

Antony Moxey said:

Sorry, I simply don't believe you. When you're driving your lorry you 'keep out of the way for other' every time. EVERY time. Really? Nope, I don't believe that for a second.

A lorry is allowed to drive at 90kph, most roads here are limited to 50, 70 or 80kph, the ones with higher limits are dual carriageways.

So you only travel at exactly the speed limit, every time you're in your lorry, whether going up hill or down hill, around bends etc to ensure you keep out of the way of other road users and never inconvenience them? Ever. In your lorry.

Yes. Have you been to the middle part of Sweden? It's not hard even for a lorry to keep the speed up on the mainly flat and straight roads here.

[mph1977]

yonex said:

So why the continued undercurrent with cycling. You can either see the issues for what they are, or you are actually looking for problems with a group of road users, which is it?

it's the misplaced ' i pay my road tax' mentality combined with the ' i'm so important all other road users must let me through ' immaturity / sociopathy which seems to be common among PH members

[anonymous-user]

Finlandia said:

• it just seems like many cyclists here are out to cause problems for other road users

• Cyclists are overrepresented in road accidents

• most of the accidents involving a cyclist are caused by the cyclist.

Pure supposition and I totally disagree.

You clearly have an issue with 'most' cyclists.

[Antony Moxey]

Finlandia said:

yonex said:

So why the continued undercurrent with cycling. You can either see the issues for what they are, or you are actually looking for problems with a group of road users, which is it?

Not looking for problems, it just seems like many cyclists here are out to cause problems for other road users, I would like to know/understand why.

walm said:

You are kidding right?

In 9 out of 10 CYCLING ACCIDENTS there are only cyclists involved.

Jesus Christ, read and understand YOUR OWN NUMBERS!!

Jesus won't help you. Cyclists are overrepresented in road accidents, and most of the accidents involving a cyclist are caused by the cyclist.

This is the bit that always annoys me: it seems like many cyclists are out to cause problems for other road users.

You genuinely, and I mean genuinely, think that when a cyclist is at home ready to go out for a ride when his wife asks him where he's going he replies out to cause havoc and mayhem and annoy as many people as possible? Really? That's what you actually think?

If that's the case then I think it's you that's the problem, not the cyclist - he's just out for a ride and to enjoy the outdoors. He doesn't want cars passing too close, convoys stuck behind him for mile after mile getting ever closer and attempting ever more stupid overtakes, plus for the most part the vast majority of motorists think the same - they just see another obstacle to overtake not someone hell bent on ruining their day for as long as possible.

Perhaps you'd be better off looking at yourself and asking why you think they're deliberately causing problems rather than just accepting that they're there and you'll pass them when they can.

[Antony Moxey]

Finlandia said:

Antony Moxey said:

Finlandia said:

Antony Moxey said:

Sorry, I simply don't believe you. When you're driving your lorry you 'keep out of the way for other' every time. EVERY time. Really? Nope, I don't believe that for a second.

A lorry is allowed to drive at 90kph, most roads here are limited to 50, 70 or 80kph, the ones with higher limits are dual carriageways.

So you only travel at exactly the speed limit, every time you're in your lorry, whether going up hill or down hill, around bends etc to ensure you keep out of the way of other road users and never inconvenience them? Ever. In your lorry.

Yes. Have you been to the middle part of Sweden? It's not hard even for a lorry to keep the speed up on the mainly flat and straight roads here.

Sadly I haven't, but all the same I simply don't believe you've never held anyone up in your life ever.

[julian64]

Finlandia said:

Not looking for problems, it just seems like many cyclists here are out to cause problems for other road users, I would like to know/understand why.

An important question. Why do a minority group of cyclist behave In this way. I think the answer might be a combo of the following.

1) These cyclist see themselves as having an equal rights as cars. They consider that if you pass them in any way differently to the way you would pass an HGV then you are at fault. Read any online cyclist forum and they will talk to you about 'commanding the roadspace', and not cycling near the curb, but cycling in the middle of the road and allowing other cars to overtake when they are happy rather than leaving it up to the car to decide. This is completely at odds with highway codes suggestions of facilitating overtakes.

2) These cyclists see themselves as vigilantes at the top of the cycling food chain, and see it as their right to play policeman, such as the need to wear go-pros, and generally tell other road users off.

3) And lastly. There is no effective legislation against cyclists. You can't report them because they can't be identified. They are the vulnerable one rather than the car so prosecution would be difficult, and the same legislation applied to the lycra warriors would have to be applied to small children on tricycles which would be absurd.

Its a tricky one to sort, and you can see how tricky when people immediately pour scorn on anyone who highlights it as a problem, and immediately jump to defend even quite ridiculously unacceptable cycling behaviour.

[TwistingMyMelon]

julian64 said:

Finlandia said:

Not looking for problems, it just seems like many cyclists here are out to cause problems for other road users, I would like to know/understand why.

An important question. Why do a minority group of cyclist behave In this way. I think the answer might be a combo of the following.

1) These cyclist see themselves as having an equal rights as cars. They consider that if you pass them in any way differently to the way you would pass an HGV then you are at fault. Read any online cyclist forum and they will talk to you about 'commanding the roadspace', and not cycling near the curb, but cycling in the middle of the road and allowing other cars to overtake when they are happy rather than leaving it up to the car to decide. This is completely at odds with highway codes suggestions of facilitating overtakes.

2) These cyclists see themselves as vigilantes at the top of the cycling food chain, and see it as their right to play policeman, such as the need to wear go-pros, and generally tell other road users off.

3) And lastly. There is no effective legislation against cyclists. You can't report them because they can't be identified. They are the vulnerable one rather than the car so prosecution would be difficult, and the same legislation applied to the lycra warriors would have to be applied to small children on tricycles which would be absurd.

Its a tricky one to sort, and you can see how tricky when people immediately pour scorn on anyone who highlights it as a problem, and immediately jump to defend even quite ridiculously unacceptable cycling behaviour.

Not sure which is worst, your dullness or small mindedness..

Stop chastising all cyclists ..sorry "these cyclists" as one, don't judge a minority with confirmation bias

There are a few knobs around that ride bikes, get over it and get on with life

[mph1977]

julian64 said:

An important question. Why do a minority group of cyclist behave In this way. I think the answer might be a combo of the following.

1) These cyclist see themselves as having an equal rights as cars. They consider that if you pass them in any way differently to the way you would pass an HGV then you are at fault. Read any online cyclist forum and they will talk to you about 'commanding the roadspace', and not cycling near the curb, but cycling in the middle of the road and allowing other cars to overtake when they are happy rather than leaving it up to the car to decide. This is completely at odds with highway codes suggestions of facilitating overtakes.

It is quite clear you have a limited understanding of the law relating to the use of the roads. cyclists ( and pedestrians ) do not have equal rights with the drivers of mechanicially proppelled vehicles, they have greater rights

It is also quite clear that you have not done any Driver development - as if you had, you would be aware of the concepts of controlling your roadspace.

I also think you need to re -read the highway code

julian64 said:

2) These cyclists see themselves as vigilantes at the top of the cycling food chain, and see it as their right to play policeman, such as the need to wear go-pros, and generally tell other road users off.

as opposed to the suggestions made throughout this thread fro mthe OP onwards about 'enforcing' a (fictional) right over cyclists ...

julian64 said:

3) And lastly. There is no effective legislation against cyclists. You can't report them because they can't be identified. They are the vulnerable one rather than the car so prosecution would be difficult, and the same legislation applied to the lycra warriors would have to be applied to small children on tricycles which would be absurd.

have a tissue ...

julian64 said:

Its a tricky one to sort, and you can see how tricky when people immediately pour scorn on anyone who highlights it as a problem, and immediately jump to defend even quite ridiculously unacceptable cycling behaviour.

as opposed to the be-goatteed and poewerfully built who repeatedly demonstrate their ignorance of the law and their apparent willingness to use their vehicles to enofrce their fictional 'rights' ...

[julian64]

TwistingMyMelon said:

julian64 said:

Finlandia said:

Not looking for problems, it just seems like many cyclists here are out to cause problems for other road users, I would like to know/understand why.

An important question. Why do a minority group of cyclist behave In this way. I think the answer might be a combo of the following.

1) These cyclist see themselves as having an equal rights as cars. They consider that if you pass them in any way differently to the way you would pass an HGV then you are at fault. Read any online cyclist forum and they will talk to you about 'commanding the roadspace', and not cycling near the curb, but cycling in the middle of the road and allowing other cars to overtake when they are happy rather than leaving it up to the car to decide. This is completely at odds with highway codes suggestions of facilitating overtakes.

2) These cyclists see themselves as vigilantes at the top of the cycling food chain, and see it as their right to play policeman, such as the need to wear go-pros, and generally tell other road users off.

3) And lastly. There is no effective legislation against cyclists. You can't report them because they can't be identified. They are the vulnerable one rather than the car so prosecution would be difficult, and the same legislation applied to the lycra warriors would have to be applied to small children on tricycles which would be absurd.

Its a tricky one to sort, and you can see how tricky when people immediately pour scorn on anyone who highlights it as a problem, and immediately jump to defend even quite ridiculously unacceptable cycling behaviour.

Not sure which is worst, your dullness or small mindedness..

Stop chastising all cyclists ..sorry "these cyclists" as one, don't judge a minority with confirmation bias

There are a few knobs around that ride bikes, get over it and get on with life

'why do a minority' - Just thought I'd highlight that for you. Plus the fact if you read any of my posts I don't tarnish all cyclists with this behaviour. Its the few who are eventually going to cause legislation for the many, just like in so many walks of life.

Otherwise your post was bang on and incisive.

[julian64]

mph1977 said:

as opposed to the be-goatteed and poewerfully built who repeatedly demonstrate their ignorance of the law and their apparent willingness to use their vehicles to enofrce their fictional 'rights' ...

So the famous mph1977 arrives. The poster most likely to end any thread by either pomposity, sarcasm, or a completely failing to grasp anything anyone says if it does not conform to his expert view on every subject.

As the op of the thread, and as is so often the case on this site, I realise that resistance is futile when certain posters appear.

Make sure you let everyone how it should be done before you go.

Bye.

[Finlandia]

yonex said:

Pure supposition and I totally disagree.

You clearly have an issue with 'most' cyclists.

According to stats it's not pure supposition.

Antony Moxey said:

he's just out for a ride and to enjoy the outdoors. He doesn't want cars passing too close, convoys stuck behind him for mile after mile getting ever closer and attempting ever more stupid overtakes

If that is the case, then why choose roads that lead to this very issue?
We have these utterly stupid 2+1 roads here:



Why would anyone go cycling on a road like this? On the narrow 1 lane bits there isn't enough room to pass safely, especially not at the allowed speed of 100kph, yet there are cyclists on roads like this one.

[mph1977]

julian64 said:

So the famous mph1977 arrives. The poster most likely to end any thread by either pomposity, sarcasm, or a completely failing to grasp anything anyone says if it does not conform to his expert view on every subject.

As the op of the thread, and as is so often the case on this site, I realise that resistance is futile when certain posters appear.

Make sure you let everyone how it should be done before you go.

Bye.

what's the matter Julian, body can't cash the cheques the ego writes ?

[Edin430]

I may get roasted for this but never mind...

Sept 2014 I was rolling up to a set of traffic lights in Edinburgh (around 5mph) when a cyclist smacked into the side of my car. Front wing, little damage. We exchanged words (convertible with the roof down) and parked up further down the road to discuss. Four other cyclists got involved saying I never left enough room for cyclists to avoid the tram tracks and I pointed out they failed to take the designated cycle path designed specifically for that reason around 10 yards before the scene of the accident (the path takes the cyclist off the road and crosses the tracks safely further down, but adds an extra 10 seconds to their journey - longer if they get caught at lights). I had two independent witnesses and everything seemed fine, albeit a little heated to begin with.

Nov 2014 and the police arrive at my door and charge me with dangerous driving (failing to avoid the cyclist and apparently speeding (anyone that knows Edinburgh will know how laughable this is for Haymarket at 5:30pm)). Told police I had witnesses and picture evidence - and could also get CCTV evidence if required. Police however told me that the cyclists were willing to testify in court and therefore I was being prosecuted.

Anyway I'll save you the detail of the in-between but thousands of pounds later, 7 visits to court and 18 months down the line - the judge laughed the charges out of court and I was fully acquited (not guilty) having proven I did nothing wrong. Two of the cyclists withdrew their statements and the two that showed up gave completely different stories and crumbed when provided with my evidence.

I moved house as the cyclists involved knew where I lived from the case (extreme but I was threatened and wanted to move anyway), I sold my dream car and I'm now followed by police anywhere I drive. It's completely changed my life. I unfortunately see far too many cyclists busting red lights, flying down the tightest spaces, hitting wing mirrors, speeding (Edinburgh roads are 20mph now with lots of steep hills to 'fly' down), freewheeling in busy traffic and generally acting like they own the streets. Coupled with the above I can completely and utterly understand anyone who has frustrations toward cyclists. The governments are not doing enough to seperate them from the busy streets and if they cant seperate them then they need to regulate them some way to control their behaviour.

There are a LOT more bad cyclists than there are good. Same maybe applies to cars but cars are all insured and easily traceable and cars have to stick to the law of the roads or risk prosecution.

8 miles? I would have left my hand on the horn until they moved. tts.