Why you shouldn't give cyclist a wide berth when passing
Discussion
spookly said:
DottyMR2 said:
It does still stand I agree, it's just unfortunately not something that can be solved/regulated. Big lumps of metal are easy to register at purchase because they're to be driven on the road, bikes can't really be given number plates unless we're going to have a national database of small, pink bikes with stabalisers and tassley bits on the handle bars that get ridden round in someone garden.
Horses
t. Of course it can be regulated, and without pink kid bikes being involved.Just make it a legal requirement for a registration plate on a cycle used on public roads - problem solved. Not all motorbikes are registered for road use, if they are never going to be used on the road. Many people ride dirt bikes/trials bikes that aren't road registered.
I think it is a good idea. It might make cyclists a bit more careful about how and when they do dangerous things, as many of them don't seem to give a f
k about that right now.There are too few police on the road to make sure motorists are driving in accordance with the highway code to be even remotely bothered about cyclists riding without their compulsory registration plates should it happen...
you could happily drive around most towns and cities with your phone by your ear having drink three pints, assuming that's enough to push you over the limit, every night and not be pulled over, they simply aren't enough police to enforce the laws. That's no criticism of the police, they are low on numbers and have other priorities.
If you think that enforcing registration plates on cyclists will do anything other than take normal law abiding cyclists of the road and into cars you're an idiot. So that's more cars and more congestion, well done you. And how long before bitter motorists start taking numbers down for perceived law breaking when in fact the cyclist did nothing wrong and said motorists just didn't know the rules of the road?
And once again, if a cyclist his a car through their own fault with such force that the car is damaged, that cyclist isn't leaving the scene in a hurry...
You sound like the cliche motorist the daily mail love to stand up for, the ones who think they are victims of a way on the motorist simply for owning a car and the truth is you just want every one else to feel as persecuted as you do...
Finally I see lots of trials type motorbikes on bridlepaths and green lanes around the mendips with no registration plates, they trailer them to the lanes and ride around knowing they won't get caught....
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 16th September 19:46
Mave said:
spookly said:
I think it is a good idea. It might make cyclists a bit more careful about how and when they do dangerous things, as many of them don't seem to give a fk about that right now.
It doesn't stop motorists doing dangerous things does it? k about that right now.DottyMR2 said:
To give another side to the pedestrian argument, I see quite a few "pedestrian walked out in front of me" moments when a car is pulling into a side street. Not saying it's something you do but I've had this discussion in another thread (being a pedestrian Monday to Friday for work) and on those occasions a pedestrian already crossing the road has right of way. See rule 170 of the Highway code. Crossing a dotted line when you turn onto that road? Crossing pedestrians have right of way.
Ah the amusing conversations I have had with drivers about rule 170. Often at this crossing - https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5276729,-0.12982...You will see there is a crossing, but there are no pedestrian lights or a pedestrian phase on the lights.
DoubleD said:
Mave said:
spookly said:
I think it is a good idea. It might make cyclists a bit more careful about how and when they do dangerous things, as many of them don't seem to give a fk about that right now.
It doesn't stop motorists doing dangerous things does it? k about that right now.pablo said:
DoubleD said:
Mave said:
spookly said:
I think it is a good idea. It might make cyclists a bit more careful about how and when they do dangerous things, as many of them don't seem to give a fk about that right now.
It doesn't stop motorists doing dangerous things does it? k about that right now.Logic would surely dictate that we all try to drive reasonably/carefully, but ultimately we all make mistakes. It's human nature.
Have I ever turned in or across someone inadvertently or made a mistake when driving? Yes of course, over 30 years of driving I've got it wrong and am happy to admit it. Cyclist or not.
I also never said cars came before bikes, or that cars had more rights than bikes to our roads, or offered any comment into the history of paved roads. I actually said that the horse and cart morphed into the car, to be precise, but if that's wrong then fine. I don't look at Wikipedia before I offer my thoughts.
I remain firmly of the opinion that if you want to ride a bike in London, for example, up against buses et al you take the rough with the smooth. If they give you 1.5 metres of leeway I'd be amazed.
It's exactly why I don't ride a motorbike, living in London. Ferrari+ performance for 10k or less but the downside is unthinkable given how badly many people drive.
Have I ever turned in or across someone inadvertently or made a mistake when driving? Yes of course, over 30 years of driving I've got it wrong and am happy to admit it. Cyclist or not.
I also never said cars came before bikes, or that cars had more rights than bikes to our roads, or offered any comment into the history of paved roads. I actually said that the horse and cart morphed into the car, to be precise, but if that's wrong then fine. I don't look at Wikipedia before I offer my thoughts.
I remain firmly of the opinion that if you want to ride a bike in London, for example, up against buses et al you take the rough with the smooth. If they give you 1.5 metres of leeway I'd be amazed.
It's exactly why I don't ride a motorbike, living in London. Ferrari+ performance for 10k or less but the downside is unthinkable given how badly many people drive.
fatboy18 said:
OK Here's another scenario. Painted Cycle lanes what used to be a normal two lane roads (Im thinking Particularly in South london). Car/van/lorries are moving slowly along the road and the cyclists under take the traffic in the cycle lane, then road speeds up for traffic and those same cyclists are then overtaken. So do those drivers now face prosecution for going past that bike and not giving the cyclist over a meter and 1/2 which would then put that traffic face to face with traffic traveling in the opposite direction?
This is the trouble, people in power don't think this stuff through. Many roads where these painted lanes are were not wide enough in the first place.
Personally I think cycle lanes painted on a road should be done away with, they encourage cyclists to undertake vehicles and we have had many many accidents and deaths as a result of Vans and lorries turning left and not seeing the bikes. Overtaking should be on the Right IMO
If Councils have put in cycle lanes and paths, cyclists should be enforced to use them, no matter what kind of bike you have.
The Ewell Bypass also comes to mind here, Large dual carriageway with a large cycle lane (propper built tarmacked path) Hardly any cyclists use it and the Lycra brigade stay on the main road!
Want to ride a bike? Then use the lanes put there for you!
And for the record, I used to be on my Secondary school Road race Cycle team, I'm a Biker, Car driver and Van driver.
You have clearly never tried to ride the 'magnificently well built and superbly maintained' cycle path that follows the A3 southbound into Guildford. It is crap. Utter utter crap. Cracked to buggery, and dangerous to use due to low branches over it's entire width in places. That, and the fact that it's barely 3 inches wide between brambles and nettles for most of it's length, where it was probably at least 2 metres wide when built. I should rather use the left hand lane of the main carriageway of the A3 itself than the so-called "cycle path" alongside it. I won't. It's far preferable to find smaller roads that meander through pleasant countryside, so as a 'leisure cyclist' I'll use them instead. But for a commuter between Guildford and the inside of the M25? Only the main carriageway is really an option, but it's too dangerous to cycle upon it regularly. So I'd probably just add to the congestion and use my car.This is the trouble, people in power don't think this stuff through. Many roads where these painted lanes are were not wide enough in the first place.
Personally I think cycle lanes painted on a road should be done away with, they encourage cyclists to undertake vehicles and we have had many many accidents and deaths as a result of Vans and lorries turning left and not seeing the bikes. Overtaking should be on the Right IMO
If Councils have put in cycle lanes and paths, cyclists should be enforced to use them, no matter what kind of bike you have.
The Ewell Bypass also comes to mind here, Large dual carriageway with a large cycle lane (propper built tarmacked path) Hardly any cyclists use it and the Lycra brigade stay on the main road!
Want to ride a bike? Then use the lanes put there for you!
And for the record, I used to be on my Secondary school Road race Cycle team, I'm a Biker, Car driver and Van driver.
Seriously? I have no issue ignoring crappy 'bike lanes' myself. I have no issue with other cyclists doing so when I want to drive. If YOU are a driver who does have a problem with this, simply get on a bike, ride the crappy bike lanes (hint - take plenty of patches and a pump, you'll need them
) and take photos of the crappy state they are in. Then use those photos to lobby your local council into maintaining those crappy bike paths. If they stopped being crappy, and started getting looked after properly, then I might even consider using them myself. I can honestly say that I don't think ANY of our local cycle paths have been so much as swept since they were opened. The carriageways of our roads, however, are 'swept' every day by the tyres of passing motor vehicles, and are therefore far less likely to cause me to suffer a puncture. Case in point? About two weeks ago I was challenged for "not using the bike lane" by someone in a car (at some traffic lights). Because it seemed phrased as a genuine question, I answered it without (much) sarcasm. "Other than the three broken bottles and a discarded HGV cargo strap? No reason, really". spookly said:
DottyMR2 said:
It does still stand I agree, it's just unfortunately not something that can be solved/regulated. Big lumps of metal are easy to register at purchase because they're to be driven on the road, bikes can't really be given number plates unless we're going to have a national database of small, pink bikes with stabalisers and tassley bits on the handle bars that get ridden round in someone garden.
Horsest. Of course it can be regulated, and without pink kid bikes being involved.Just make it a legal requirement for a registration plate on a cycle used on public roads - problem solved. Not all motorbikes are registered for road use, if they are never going to be used on the road. Many people ride dirt bikes/trials bikes that aren't road registered.
I think it is a good idea. It might make cyclists a bit more careful about how and when they do dangerous things, as many of them don't seem to give a f
k about that right now.k all is what. The police have their hands tied by H&S and duty of care rules and regulations, and won't pursue these freaks for fear of being on the wrong end of an IPCC investigation for ruining the life of yet another 'promising footballer'. It stands to reason that if you're going to require the registration of human powered bicycles and tricycles, then there would be no such thing as an "unregistered off road motorcycle" any more. Right? This registration guff is just that. Guff. A red herring. A debate diverter. It won't happen while central government, local government, and the mayor of London are all trying to get fat lazy f
kwits OUT of cars and onto bicycles as a congestion reducing and health improving measure. Technology will only go so far to reduce our dependence upon fossil fuels, and one day they WILL run out, or become prohibitively expensive to use for mundanity such as commuting or 'nipping down the CO-OP for a loaf of bread'. For years now we've watched the likes of Tomorrow's World tell us that in fifty years time we'll all fly to work, only to watch the archived shows and laugh at the absurdity of such ideas when they fail to materialise. As a petrolhead and motorsport fan it'll be sad when that happens, but mark my words. One day, bicycles WILL be the answer to the question "what is the only affordable, practical answer to the problem of providing the average citizen with a means of reliable personal transportation?" Those who are too fat to partake will, quite literally of course, be left behind. It might not be in my lifetime, nor yours, but one day...
julian64 said:
So I found the other thread interesting but infuriating. Always try to be courteous to cyclists and motorcyclist as I do both myself
However going down a country lane (with passing places) for cars for nearly eight miles on Saturday in my car. In front of me were two lycra clad cyclists drinking from water bottles, eating what looked like mars bars and generally chatting with each other while enjoying the countryside air.
They were completely aware I was behind them and spent the entire eight miles at about ten miles an hour, one of them demonstrating their hands off handlebar technique for about a mile. At no time did either of them think to pull into a passing place to let me through.
There were two occasions early on when the road started to widen when I could've made an overtake manoeuvre but I would have come very close to the cyclist to do so.
If I had known there would be eight miles involved I would've gone for it early on. Gawd only knows what people with that cycling attitude must create in a busy part of London.
After that little meeting I'm now of the opinion that cyclists should not have equal access to the road as cars.
Revisiting the original post for a moment.However going down a country lane (with passing places) for cars for nearly eight miles on Saturday in my car. In front of me were two lycra clad cyclists drinking from water bottles, eating what looked like mars bars and generally chatting with each other while enjoying the countryside air.
They were completely aware I was behind them and spent the entire eight miles at about ten miles an hour, one of them demonstrating their hands off handlebar technique for about a mile. At no time did either of them think to pull into a passing place to let me through.
There were two occasions early on when the road started to widen when I could've made an overtake manoeuvre but I would have come very close to the cyclist to do so.
If I had known there would be eight miles involved I would've gone for it early on. Gawd only knows what people with that cycling attitude must create in a busy part of London.
After that little meeting I'm now of the opinion that cyclists should not have equal access to the road as cars.
Alcester, Warwickshire. I was camping nearby and was in town shopping when a gaggle of cycling pensioners rolled in to the cafe by the church. Later, on my way back to the camp site. I was approaching a 'give way' crossroads. To my left, on the main road, were about 18 of said pensioners, turning left into the road I wanted to take. Damn! I should have left a minute or two earlier. Or taken a more direct route.
But hey? An opportunity to test this theory. Wiggly little roads barely wide enough for two cars to pass without slowing down? Check. An odometer? Check. A clock? Check. So I reset the trip odometer, and checked the time. Then I crossed the junction and closed up behind the cyclists.
Damn it if they didn't immediately communicate my presence to the leaders. I thought I'd be past in a flash, but no, they stayed as a fairly loose blob, sometimes as many as three abreast effectively, given the variation in their spacings. Some of them were quite tubby too. Despite this, the slowest speed I registered was 15mph.
Distance, though. How long was I stuck behind them? Well it seemed like forever, but in reality it turned out to be a little over 0.3 of a mile. In that time we'd passed two spots where I thought I might get past with a little assistance from the riders, but they'd stayed out toward the crown of the road.
What about time? It must have been an age right? Well sadly (or perhaps happily) it was less than 2 minutes. They evidently knew the road better than I did, and when a straight section opened up they were tightly packed in seconds and I was being waved on through by the leader with several riders repeating the signal. I moved out, had a good look, and nailed it past them, buzzing down the window and waving a thank-you as I moved left again. The friendly wave was reciprocated by the leading pair and thus we all went about our day safely and happily.
Bear in mind that this wasn't a couple of charlies crawling along and sipping from bottles, but a big midweek club ride, on narrow roads. I honestly thought it would play out over a greater distance, and I'd be held up far longer. That's why I checked the odometer and the clock for accurate figures, as I'd hoped they'd be more akin to the OP's exaggerations. It certainly FELT like a long time/distance, but in reality it wasn't. Perhaps, based on this pseudo-scientific 'experiment', we ought to forgive the OP for such wild exaggerations? Ultimately, though, despite the NSL road, I'd not have been hitting 60mph on any of it. Far too twisty and unfamiliar really. So the actual delay was so small as to be negligible in terms of it's effect on my plans for the day. Unlike the queues of cars in Alcester on our last day. I presume there were some roadworks on the A435/A46, because I had to abandon hope of getting onto the A46 directly out of town, and instead turned right and retraced my steps through Aston Cantlow and Snitterfield back to the A46. Drivers, eh? What a bunch of selfish Muppets, snarling up traffic through town like that!
I think the cyclists must have decided to drive now, it took me two and a quarter hours to get home from Ellesmere Port to Huddersfield yesterday on the M56, M6 and M62. I presume they were cyclists, because they were doing 15mph and driving in a massive group, three or four abreast, depending on the number of lanes...
gazza285 said:
I think the cyclists must have decided to drive now, it took me two and a quarter hours to get home from Ellesmere Port to Huddersfield yesterday on the M56, M6 and M62. I presume they were cyclists, because they were doing 15mph and driving in a massive group, three or four abreast, depending on the number of lanes...
Well its the only way we can get equal access to the roads now....yonex said:
This will no doubt irritate the minority on here.
Drivers who give cyclists less than a metre and a half of room as they overtake will face prosecution
About bloody time.
What about driverless vehicles? Drivers who give cyclists less than a metre and a half of room as they overtake will face prosecution
About bloody time.
gazza285 said:
I think the cyclists must have decided to drive now, it took me two and a quarter hours to get home from Ellesmere Port to Huddersfield yesterday on the M56, M6 and M62. I presume they were cyclists, because they were doing 15mph and driving in a massive group, three or four abreast, depending on the number of lanes...
Seeing as 80% of cyclists are also drivers... Finlandia said:
gazza285 said:
I think the cyclists must have decided to drive now, it took me two and a quarter hours to get home from Ellesmere Port to Huddersfield yesterday on the M56, M6 and M62. I presume they were cyclists, because they were doing 15mph and driving in a massive group, three or four abreast, depending on the number of lanes...
Seeing as 80% of cyclists are also drivers... 
Riley Blue said:
yonex said:
This will no doubt irritate the minority on here.
Drivers who give cyclists less than a metre and a half of room as they overtake will face prosecution
About bloody time.
But will it stop cyclists filtering in slow moving traffic when there's less than a metre and a half of room?Drivers who give cyclists less than a metre and a half of room as they overtake will face prosecution
About bloody time.
yellowjack said:
. "Other than the three broken bottles and a discarded HGV cargo strap? No reason, really".
Genuine question - Why not stop and pick them up ? I regularly pick up debris from the path (including a pedestrian / cycle path) while I am out and about. The local council website normally has a way to report it tooWell I've just witnessed a cyclist ride on the wrong side of the road to avoid a line of traffic waiting at a red light due to roadworks where one lane is shut. Cyclist then rode his bike towards oncoming traffic down this narrow Lane with cars and trucks struggling to get past him. Our lights went green and a car heading in his direction overtook him rather too closely.
So as I've said before you get bad road use by all types of road user.
So as I've said before you get bad road use by all types of road user.
pablo said:
They should know better? is that your point? I'd agree. Kind of backfires though doesnt it when people come on here and complain about cyclists jumping red lights and riding with no respect for other traffic when what they are describing is "a motorist riding a pushbike..."
I didn't really have a point, other than to laugh It's interesting though. Speaking from my perspective here in Sweden, most of the cyclists in urban traffic don't give a toss about rules, while most of the drivers follow the rules. I don't think the % of driving cyclists is as high as in the UK, but still quite a few should hold some sort of licence, then what is it that makes these law abiding drivers go into Falling Down mode when getting on the bike?
Getting back at the system, feeling a bit rebellious? I suppose we would all do some crazy s
t if the risk of getting caught was minimal, but then how many would still do the same if you risked injury or worse, it's quite interesting to see.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff