Tesla P100D 0-60 in 2.5s

[CaptainCosworth]

It is a marketing gimic, but you can't blame them. There's nothing appealing (in a PH way) about something like a Nissan Leaf, but a proper electic sports car will make headlines. And that publicity will boost brand awareness and help them shift their more "affordable" models.

Can't say I'm won over by EV's yet, but they do have their place, and this will only increase. What I can't stand is talk of them taking over completely, it's just not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Perhaps 50% in 20-30 years time at best. Yes, if you have lots of money, live in a house with a garage/driveway with easily accessible charging points you'll be fine. If you're one of the millions who live in flats/terrace housing/etc then how are you going to charge it up overnight?

There's plenty of threads on here where people talk about parking wars where they live. This will just get even worse if people are trying to plug their EV up to charge overnight!

[xxChrisxx]

Blaster72 said:

Nope, it's not mumsnet.

I just can't see the point of Tesla constantly chasing improvements in 0-60 times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publicity
It sells motors, probably even more than the pure top trumps aspect.

[kambites]

CaptainCosworth said:

Can't say I'm won over by EV's yet, but they do have their place, and this will only increase. What I can't stand is talk of them taking over completely, it's just not going to happen in the foreseeable future.

The only people I've seen mention the possibility of them taking over completely in the foreseeable future are the detractors claiming that because they can't completely take over, they're completely useless. I don't think even the most extreme fans of EVs believe they're going to completely replace ICE powered cars in our lifetime.

[walm]

The Surveyor said:

My problem comes with the headline grabbing, attention seeking tosh about 0-60 times rather than making a decently quick car that has a much better range, or batteries with a longer life, or which charge realistically quickly.

So your problem is with someone marketing their new car?

FYI - he is trying to do all those other things too!

[Alex_225]

RobDickinson said:

'Under 6 seconds to 60' - theres probably going to be a range of performance but thats the minimum.

Interestingly from the data the model S could go even faster - the limit is still the battery being able to supply enough current for the motors..

Well that's more than adequate for most people. In fact that's hot hatch territory so for people buying from a purely eco point of view, they'd be pleased with that.

[walm]

kambites said:

CaptainCosworth said:

Can't say I'm won over by EV's yet, but they do have their place, and this will only increase. What I can't stand is talk of them taking over completely, it's just not going to happen in the foreseeable future.

The only people I've seen mention the possibility of them taking over completely in the foreseeable future are the detractors claiming that because they can't completely take over, they're completely useless. I don't think even the most extreme fans of EVs believe they're going to completely replace ICE powered cars in our lifetime.

Exactly.
It's my favourite straw man.

"They won't replace every car, what's the big deal."

[otolith]

I don't think we will adapt the urban infrastructure to facilitate on street charging until there is a critical mass of EVs on the road. But I do think that will happen. It's not a difficult engineering problem. I think charging points will end up a bit of everyday street furniture like parking meters or lampposts.

Is there an existing protocol for the cars to identify themselves to charging points? If not, I think there will be.

[J4CKO]

Mr GrimNasty said:

The joker Musk is claiming this new battery pack is a milestone - surely he meant millstone!

"Mr Musk said that in cool weather, a driver could travel from San Francisco to Los Angeles."

Can you imagine the conversation, "Shall we pop down to visit your parents this weekend dear? Hold on, I'll just check the weather is forecast to be between 15 and 20C for 56 hours!"

More pointless toys for the elite bankrolled by the taxpayer and the cult followers.

Pointless ?

Really ? will the tech not trickle down to cheaper vehicles ?

Where do you stand on every other car above say 30 grand ? i.e. the entry point for a Model 3, which to be fair isnt that much more expensive than a fair proportion of cars sold in the UK, I guess there will be further models, when demand is met for the existing ones.


As for taxpayer bankrolled, of course the main car makers in America have never had a penny off the government ?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/12/3...

[kambites]

otolith said:

I don't think we will adapt the urban infrastructure to facilitate on street charging until there is a critical mass of EVs on the road. But I do think that will happen. It's not a difficult engineering problem. I think charging points will end up a bit of everyday street furniture like parking meters or lampposts.

I suppose lamp posts is the obvious place to start really. They're talking about upgrading most of our urban street lights to LEDs anyway; if they shove an EV charging point in each of them as they change them over that'd provide a fair bit of capacity.

[RobDickinson]

There's just no way we could scale up battery production to switch to ev for a decade or two and that's new cars, takes something like 15 years to replace a countries motor fleet so 25-35 years as a realistic minimum

[walm]

RobDickinson said:

There's just no way we could scale up battery production to switch to ev for a decade or two and that's new cars, takes something like 15 years to replace a countries motor fleet so 25-35 years as a realistic minimum

Once again.
No one is suggestion a 100% switch to EV.

(Other than the Dutch.)

[CaptainCosworth]

kambites said:

CaptainCosworth said:

Can't say I'm won over by EV's yet, but they do have their place, and this will only increase. What I can't stand is talk of them taking over completely, it's just not going to happen in the foreseeable future.

The only people I've seen mention the possibility of them taking over completely in the foreseeable future are the detractors claiming that because they can't completely take over, they're completely useless. I don't think even the most extreme fans of EVs believe they're going to completely replace ICE powered cars in our lifetime.

"I've actually made a prediction that within 30 years a majority of new cars made in the United States will be electric. And I don't mean hybrid, I mean fully electric"
Elon Musk, June 2008

[kambites]

CaptainCosworth said:

"I've actually made a prediction that within 30 years a majority of new cars made in the United States will be electric. And I don't mean hybrid, I mean fully electric"
Elon Musk, June 2008

Yes, what's wrong with that? "The majority of" is not "all".

50% of new vehicles being EV 22 years from now seems a realistic (if optimistic) aim. Add another 10 years to that time-frame and I'd say it's odds on.


ETA: Worth pointing out I don't know a great deal about the US market, but it sounds believable for the UK.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 24th August 11:06

[Jader1973]

I was reading about the Hyundai Ioniq today.

It is a 5 door hatchback which in all electric form has a range of 169 and 250km, so enough for the daily commute for most people. It starts in the UK at 19,995 for the hybrid version, not sure about the all electric but surely it couldn't be much more?

The Chevrolet Bolt is also interesting: claimed 200 mile range; small, so city friendly; USD30k after rebates, so around 25k GBP; and it looks quite good.

I think the lure of a mainstream brand offering all electric cars will be hard for Tesla to battle. Hyundai, Ford, Chevrolet, Vauxhall, BMW, Merc etc are a known quantity when it comes to quality and dealer service etc whereas Tesla are a niche player with a slightly tarnished reputation thanks to Autopilot.

In a couple of years people will walk in to a Ford dealership to buy a Fiesta 1.2 econobox. The salesperson will be able to say to ask them how many miles they do a day, how much do they pay in fuel, and then do the sums to show that the all electric version is a more suitable buy for them. Tesla will never have that, they rely purely on conquest sales from other brands.



And as for why Tesla announced the Model S P100D, the fact that their model line up is S ,3, X, Y tells you everything you need to know about them and their desire for self-promotion (E was taken by someone else).

[kambites]

Jader1973 said:

It is a 5 door hatchback which in all electric form has a range of 169 and 250km, so enough for the daily commute for most people. It starts in the UK at 19,995 for the hybrid version, not sure about the all electric but surely it couldn't be much more?

£28k according to Auto Express, so a fair bit more. That appears to be partly because the pure EV is only available in the top trim level.

[kambites]

£13k for them, since there will presumably be a £5k government rebate on the pure EV which they don't get for the hybrid?

[J4CKO]

RobDickinson said:

There's just no way we could scale up battery production to switch to ev for a decade or two and that's new cars, takes something like 15 years to replace a countries motor fleet so 25-35 years as a realistic minimum

It isnt just replacing the fleet, but the buyers, those being born over the next few years will most likely never own an IC engined car.

[rscott]

Jader1973 said:

I was reading about the Hyundai Ioniq today.

It is a 5 door hatchback which in all electric form has a range of 169 and 250km, so enough for the daily commute for most people. It starts in the UK at 19,995 for the hybrid version, not sure about the all electric but surely it couldn't be much more?

The Chevrolet Bolt is also interesting: claimed 200 mile range; small, so city friendly; USD30k after rebates, so around 25k GBP; and it looks quite good.

I think the lure of a mainstream brand offering all electric cars will be hard for Tesla to battle. Hyundai, Ford, Chevrolet, Vauxhall, BMW, Merc etc are a known quantity when it comes to quality and dealer service etc whereas Tesla are a niche player with a slightly tarnished reputation thanks to Autopilot.

In a couple of years people will walk in to a Ford dealership to buy a Fiesta 1.2 econobox. The salesperson will be able to say to ask them how many miles they do a day, how much do they pay in fuel, and then do the sums to show that the all electric version is a more suitable buy for them. Tesla will never have that, they rely purely on conquest sales from other brands.

And as for why Tesla announced the Model S P100D, the fact that their model line up is S ,3, X, Y tells you everything you need to know about them and their desire for self-promotion (E was taken by someone else).

The Tesla difference is that you're buying from them directly, not a third party, so they're responsible for fixing problems. Think of it like the iStore concept for Apple.

I don't think Autopilot has particularly tarnished their reputation. They've responded publicly to all the incidents showing it's generally down to people not using it properly.

[kambites]

Nanook said:

kambites said:

£13k for them, since there will presumably be a £5k government rebate on the pure EV which they don't get for the hybrid?

That's kinda bonkers, isn't it?!

From a "cost of production" point of view it makes a lot more sense than the difference in price between a 340d and a 316d; I doubt there's more than a couple of grand difference in production cost between the two engines.

From a customer value point of view... I suppose it depends on the customer.

[tankplanker]

kambites said:

But would you buy a big performance car at all? Personally, I'd hate to drive a Tesla day in day out but then I wouldn't want to drive an M5 or E63 either so that's a bit of a moot point. I think the sorts of people who buy £100k luxury saloons, even very fast ones, are no more likely to be driving enthusiasts than those who buy any other sort of mainstream car and as such are highly unlikely to care.

I had a serious look at buying a new E65S and the Tesla but I went with multiple cars instead: XC90, Golf R and a Locost 7 as the E65 was still a compromised drive due to its weight and I couldn't afford to track it (plus it'd be a bit of a barge on track). If I could afford the E65S instead of the XC90 then I would...

Lots of people buy performance cars never really use anywhere near all the performance, they are buying a badge and/or a certain look for the car, its not just a problem for large sports saloons. Personally I don't care, more sales means that sort of car is more likely to be made, the second hand market is bigger, and the cars should be better due to greater competition.