Tesla P100D 0-60 in 2.5s

[J4CKO]

I dont think Teslas reputation has been tarnished, I think that sometimes if you are at the cutting edge, things may occasionally go awry, especially if people mis-use them, it isnt like punters use IC engined cars 100 percent properly, I watched some pillock in a 500 convertible trying to drive with a Costa Coffee and a phone in his hand and he got blasted by the car entering as he was right in the middle of the road, that kind of stupid cant be mitigated for, and he was wearing espadrilles.

[Alex_225]

As a brand Tesla come across as 'the' EV manufacturer which I suppose they bearing in mind their cars are built from the ground up as electric and that is all they sell. I've not looked into them especially so my opinion is based on snippets of info and articles you see on TV etc and Tesla come across as quality and innovative.

At the same time their pricing (at the moment) puts them out of the reach of a lot of people so I've never given one of their cars more thought than that.

As mentioned, it may be a tough market for them to crack with other known manufacturers steaming in with EVs.

I commute into central London on a daily basis, for me EVs would serve a huge purpose in cities.

[Jader1973]

kambites said:

Jader1973 said:

It is a 5 door hatchback which in all electric form has a range of 169 and 250km, so enough for the daily commute for most people. It starts in the UK at 19,995 for the hybrid version, not sure about the all electric but surely it couldn't be much more?

£28k according to Auto Express, so a fair bit more. That appears to be partly because the pure EV is only available in the top trim level.

I couldn't find that, thanks.

That is quite steep. I can't find mpg figures for the hybrid, but say 60? At 1 GBP per litre 8k GBP gets you 8,000 litres of fuel so enough for roughly 100,000 miles. Which is quite payback period especially as electricity isn't free.

[kambites]

Alex_225 said:

As mentioned, it may be a tough market for them to crack with other known manufacturers steaming in with EVs.

I don't think they have much interest in competing with the mainstream manufacturers; Musk has made no secret of the fact that Tesla Cars only really exists to bring about the market changes he (1) rightly or wrongly thinks are the correct way for the world to go and (2) needs to sell his batteries.

I suspect Tesla will continue to produce cars until the first mainstream manufacturers catch up then he'll sell the car part of the company to whichever of the big companies has been slowest to react and needs a head-start, probably with a nice caveat attached that they only buy their batteries from him.

[Ninja59]

I actually did consider a Tesla when I looked into the 6 series...but...

the discounts on the 6 series for nearly new cars was far better and at time there was still plenty of on going quality issues with the S and the final nail in the coffin was sadly range (my parents live circa 280 miles away and whilst yes I could "charge" at a relevant supercharger I want to do it when I want to do it without anxiety...the 6 series does it comfortably and then still goes around them locally with enough fuel to spare).

I really want to like EV's, but there is always something that makes me think that they are still "too" compromised to be considered for a daily car. Even most avid EV people then confirm the need for another car...which immediately takes away some of the saving they have made by having an EV! Added to that the recent change by ecotricity (even those with them still have fair usage limits) then the picture is less bright.

At the moment it is no surprise that "most" people are playing the sitting on the fence game by having a hybrid or range extender model of X. I must admit to quite liking the i8 (the i3 not so much).

Time will tell also what impact the VED changes from April next year will bring on EV's and generally "lower CO2" cars with the introduction of the £40K threshold.

Edited by Ninja59 on Wednesday 24th August 11:58

[CaptainCosworth]

kambites said:

CaptainCosworth said:

"I've actually made a prediction that within 30 years a majority of new cars made in the United States will be electric. And I don't mean hybrid, I mean fully electric"
Elon Musk, June 2008

Yes, what's wrong with that? "The majority of" is not "all".

50% of new vehicles being EV 22 years from now seems a realistic (if optimistic) aim. Add another 10 years to that time-frame and I'd say it's odds on.


ETA: Worth pointing out I don't know a great deal about the US market, but it sounds believable for the UK.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 24th August 11:06

Ok, apologies, probably not the best quote to back up my original post. But there are people out there who talk about them taking over completely (I believe the Green Party would like us to aim for 90%+ by 2050). I can't argue with their optimism, but it is simply not realistic without an unprecedented level of public spending.

My original post said possibly 50% in 30 years time, but while fossil fuels are still in plentiful supply (and the increase in shale gas production will extend their life) I think that EV's would struggle to take a majority share of the market.

Personally, although not yet won over, I admit it's quite possible I'll be driving an EV in 10-15 years time. But to the right of my house I have a driveway and garage where an outside power point could easily be installed. The neighbour to the left of us also has a driveway and garage, but it is the far side of ours, so to install a power point they would need right of access over our property...

[AnotherClarkey]

CaptainCosworth said:

Ok, apologies, probably not the best quote to back up my original post. But there are people out there who talk about them taking over completely (I believe the Green Party would like us to aim for 90%+ by 2050). I can't argue with their optimism, but it is simply not realistic without an unprecedented level of public spending.

My original post said possibly 50% in 30 years time, but while fossil fuels are still in plentiful supply (and the increase in shale gas production will extend their life) I think that EV's would struggle to take a majority share of the market.

Personally, although not yet won over, I admit it's quite possible I'll be driving an EV in 10-15 years time. But to the right of my house I have a driveway and garage where an outside power point could easily be installed. The neighbour to the left of us also has a driveway and garage, but it is the far side of ours, so to install a power point they would need right of access over our property...

So even the Green Party don't think they will take over completely by 2050?

[ex1]

CaptainCosworth said:

kambites said:

CaptainCosworth said:

Personally, although not yet won over, I admit it's quite possible I'll be driving an EV in 10-15 years time. But to the right of my house I have a driveway and garage where an outside power point could easily be installed. The neighbour to the left of us also has a driveway and garage, but it is the far side of ours, so to install a power point they would need right of access over our property...

In the UK there will be more charging stations than petrol stations by 2020. In 10 years your average EV family hatch will have a better range than most ICE cars and will come with wireless charging. The tech is moving at an incredibly fast pace.

[Evanivitch]

Ninja59 said:

Even most avid EV people then confirm the need for another car...which immediately takes away some of the saving they have made by having an EV!

A lot of people have a 2 car household anyway. Maybe even a majority. The majority of people I know, including myself, could easily utilise a Zoe sized EV and a second ICE car without any impact on their day to day.

[CaptainCosworth]

ex1 said:

CaptainCosworth said:

kambites said:

CaptainCosworth said:

Personally, although not yet won over, I admit it's quite possible I'll be driving an EV in 10-15 years time. But to the right of my house I have a driveway and garage where an outside power point could easily be installed. The neighbour to the left of us also has a driveway and garage, but it is the far side of ours, so to install a power point they would need right of access over our property...

In the UK there will be more charging stations than petrol stations by 2020. In 10 years your average EV family hatch will have a better range than most ICE cars and will come with wireless charging. The tech is moving at an incredibly fast pace.

Yes, the tech is not far off, I'm sure in 10 years time "range anxiety" will be a thing of the past.
But unless wireless charging has a range of 30-40 feet how will that help my neighbour charge their car overnight?

[ex1]

CaptainCosworth said:

Yes, the tech is not far off, I'm sure in 10 years time "range anxiety" will be a thing of the past.
But unless wireless charging has a range of 30-40 feet how will that help my neighbour charge their car overnight?

It will be much easier to charge elsewhere. When parked at the supermarket etc. Lots of people haven't got a driveway so there will have to be viable alternatives if they are to get mass uptake.

[CaptainCosworth]

ex1 said:

CaptainCosworth said:

Yes, the tech is not far off, I'm sure in 10 years time "range anxiety" will be a thing of the past.
But unless wireless charging has a range of 30-40 feet how will that help my neighbour charge their car overnight?

It will be much easier to charge elsewhere. When parked at the supermarket etc. Lots of people haven't got a driveway so there will have to be viable alternatives if they are to get mass uptake.

It won't be easier to charge elsewhere, at least not in the near future. It will be the classic chicken or egg scenario. People won't buy EV's on mass until charging points are easily accessible. But the government won't spend vast amounts of public money until the demand is there. And even then the huge costs for a mass roll-out will be vastly prohibitive.

For example, my local Tesco has about 300 parking spaces. I can imagine perhaps 5 charging points being installed within the next 10 years. I would also expect that every owner of an EV would park in one of those spaces if they could, just to "top up", even if their vehicle already had a relatively full charge. So someone who was considering an EV would walk past and think "those spaces are always full so I will never get the chance to charge my car, so I'll stick with petrol/diesel". To make charging in the supermarket car park practical you would probably need 30-40 charging points, and that's just one supermarket car park...

The tech is there (or will be there soon), the money is not.

[kambites]

Evanivitch said:

Ninja59 said:

Even most avid EV people then confirm the need for another car...which immediately takes away some of the saving they have made by having an EV!

A lot of people have a 2 car household anyway. Maybe even a majority. The majority of people I know, including myself, could easily utilise a Zoe sized EV and a second ICE car without any impact on their day to day.

The UK now has more road taxed cars as it does people holding a B-class driving licence. I think that tells you a lot about the proportion of households with two cars.

[otolith]

CaptainCosworth said:

But the government won't spend vast amounts of public money until the demand is there. And even then the huge costs for a mass roll-out will be vastly prohibitive.

Why would the government be providing them? It doesn't provide petrol stations.

[walm]

kambites said:

The UK now has more road taxed cars as it does people holding a B-class driving licence. I think that tells you a lot about the proportion of households with two cars.

I think it is 32% of households with 2 cars IIRC. The data is out there.

[kambites]

walm said:

kambites said:

The UK now has more road taxed cars as it does people holding a B-class driving licence. I think that tells you a lot about the proportion of households with two cars.

I think it is 32% of households with 2 cars IIRC. The data is out there.

Sounds plausible so that's a potential market of, what, 8 million vehicles in the UK? Plus all of the people who have only one car but never do long trips; which outside the world of Pistonheads is probably at least as big as the second-car market.

[kambites]

otolith said:

CaptainCosworth said:

But the government won't spend vast amounts of public money until the demand is there. And even then the huge costs for a mass roll-out will be vastly prohibitive.

Why would the government be providing them? It doesn't provide petrol stations.

I think the government will introduce legislation to force others to provide them, just as today you can't build a housing estate or a supermarket car park without certain facilities. I think we'll see the same sort of planning rules used to enforce the initial introduction of EV charging point and once it becomes mainstream, market forces will make it viable to install them at existing locations .

Besides, the government can always up road fuel duty to fund the installation of EV charging points.

[otolith]

I think as demand grows, supply will too, at least at retail outlets where the presence of a charging point becomes a reason for choosing that site to do your shopping.

[CaptainCosworth]

otolith said:

CaptainCosworth said:

But the government won't spend vast amounts of public money until the demand is there. And even then the huge costs for a mass roll-out will be vastly prohibitive.

Why would the government be providing them? It doesn't provide petrol stations.

How else would you finance them? A major selling point of EV's is the low cost of charging them, so I can't see how anyone would make their money back after installing 1000's of charging points (at least not very quickly)

[walm]

CaptainCosworth said:

How else would you finance them?

Through the attached retail establishments - just like petrol stations.

But in any case charging points are irrelevant.
Almost no one needs them, since 99% of journeys are <250 miles.