PART II - Make a life decision for me
Discussion
Around 9 months ago I posted a dilemma on whether to take a newly offered job (with a higher salary), or stick with my current job. There was some great advice, and I heeded one particular piece of advice on what to do next. I had a call with my current boss and he subsequently agreed to increase my salary from £72,000 to £78,000, and so I stayed put. I'm certain the outcome would have been different had I not posted looking for advice.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
So as PH appears to be such a good place for anonymous career advice, i'm asking again. I've had a first round interview for a new role, it went well and I have been told that the next stage is a formality, so unless a major hiccup happens I will be offered the job.
Here are details of both jobs, and some additional personal detail to provide context.
Current Job:
In-house
Salary - £78,000 = £52,706 net
No bonus
Location - Northern city
1 hour commute each way
Usually work from home 3/4 days a week, no pressure to be in the office.
The job is becoming more challenging, scope and breadth has developed over the past year. Relationship with my boss is still excellent, no micromanagement, no unreasonable deadlines etc
Potential new job:
In-house
Salary - £95,000 to £105,000. Their HR person says this is the salary range, though will obviously only know definitively if/when they make an offer . Plus bonus (bonus level currently undefined) = so that means £62,566 to £67,366 net (plus bonus)
Location - 3 days working in Northern city (1 hour each way), 1 day working from home, 1 day in London
Northern City will be "home office" so any travel from there will be claimable on expenses.
Again, I apologise for venturing into vulgarity and mentioning specific numbers.
Some personal info:
29 years old, married, 2 year old son, own my own home, wife is a teacher but hasn't gone back to work since the baby, and we're going to be trying for another one later this year,
Some professional info:
5PQE lawyer, general commercial
All other things beign equal, what would you do? Slightly touching back to my previous topic, how much of a jump in salary would you need to move? Is even the idea of moving a t
ttish thing to do given my boss may have bent over backwards to get me a significant raise only 9 months ago?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
So as PH appears to be such a good place for anonymous career advice, i'm asking again. I've had a first round interview for a new role, it went well and I have been told that the next stage is a formality, so unless a major hiccup happens I will be offered the job.
Here are details of both jobs, and some additional personal detail to provide context.
Current Job:
In-house
Salary - £78,000 = £52,706 net
No bonus
Location - Northern city
1 hour commute each way
Usually work from home 3/4 days a week, no pressure to be in the office.
The job is becoming more challenging, scope and breadth has developed over the past year. Relationship with my boss is still excellent, no micromanagement, no unreasonable deadlines etc
Potential new job:
In-house
Salary - £95,000 to £105,000. Their HR person says this is the salary range, though will obviously only know definitively if/when they make an offer . Plus bonus (bonus level currently undefined) = so that means £62,566 to £67,366 net (plus bonus)
Location - 3 days working in Northern city (1 hour each way), 1 day working from home, 1 day in London
Northern City will be "home office" so any travel from there will be claimable on expenses.
Again, I apologise for venturing into vulgarity and mentioning specific numbers.
Some personal info:
29 years old, married, 2 year old son, own my own home, wife is a teacher but hasn't gone back to work since the baby, and we're going to be trying for another one later this year,
Some professional info:
5PQE lawyer, general commercial
All other things beign equal, what would you do? Slightly touching back to my previous topic, how much of a jump in salary would you need to move? Is even the idea of moving a t
ttish thing to do given my boss may have bent over backwards to get me a significant raise only 9 months ago? Edited by advicedout on Wednesday 24th August 11:00
As others have said, the working conditions where you are now sound great - you've got most of the week at home with your wife and child and that's really nice at this stage in your life. You also seem to like the job, which is really important.
What's the potential for progression at your current place? Based on how cushy everything else is, if you are going to see £10k of pay increase in the next couple of years I don't think I could be bothered to move.
What's the potential for progression at your current place? Based on how cushy everything else is, if you are going to see £10k of pay increase in the next couple of years I don't think I could be bothered to move.
I memba' you! *Shifty eye*
Just to share a few pointers:
- A 14.6k extra net a year
- That's 73k extra over 5 years
Really comes down to you/partner wants and needs, i.e. will kids be going into private, what are your lifestyle demands, etc
I would echo a previous post that the demands will not be as comfortable, can imagine overtime, weekends and travelling to form part of it.
I'm your age but no kids or wife and worked like mad to earn extra pay; was it worth it when I look back? Yes and no. I have no big lifestyle demands so other than extra money it was not with a goal or lifestyle in mind, however the experience, networking and skills it brought forward will serve me for life.
I doubt I would get that opportunity again, though if I did I wouldn't work to such high demands.
Hope that helps.
Just to share a few pointers:
- A 14.6k extra net a year
- That's 73k extra over 5 years
Really comes down to you/partner wants and needs, i.e. will kids be going into private, what are your lifestyle demands, etc
I would echo a previous post that the demands will not be as comfortable, can imagine overtime, weekends and travelling to form part of it.
I'm your age but no kids or wife and worked like mad to earn extra pay; was it worth it when I look back? Yes and no. I have no big lifestyle demands so other than extra money it was not with a goal or lifestyle in mind, however the experience, networking and skills it brought forward will serve me for life.
I doubt I would get that opportunity again, though if I did I wouldn't work to such high demands.
Hope that helps.
Hello,
You are 29 years old. A Spring Chicken.
You studied hard , worked hard and qualified as a Lawyer. Congratulations. You are not Council !!
Please don't throw all that potential away by Coasting
Man up , step up and take the job.
Not for the money maybe , which is always nice , but for your own self worth.
I'm 61 and working as an Engineer in Iraq.
Not coasting.
I can put this reply on an A4 Headed letter to you if you want but it will be 500.00 pounds plus vat. :-) Sorry , no Pound sign on my laptop
Sam
You are 29 years old. A Spring Chicken.
You studied hard , worked hard and qualified as a Lawyer. Congratulations. You are not Council !!
Please don't throw all that potential away by Coasting
Man up , step up and take the job.
Not for the money maybe , which is always nice , but for your own self worth.
I'm 61 and working as an Engineer in Iraq.
Not coasting.
I can put this reply on an A4 Headed letter to you if you want but it will be 500.00 pounds plus vat. :-) Sorry , no Pound sign on my laptop
Sam
Sam99 said:
Hello,
You are 29 years old. A Spring Chicken.
You studied hard , worked hard and qualified as a Lawyer. Congratulations. You are not Council !!
Please don't throw all that potential away by Coasting
Man up , step up and take the job.
Not for the money maybe , which is always nice , but for your own self worth.
I'm 61 and working as an Engineer in Iraq.
Not coasting.
I can put this reply on an A4 Headed letter to you if you want but it will be 500.00 pounds plus vat. :-) Sorry , no Pound sign on my laptop
Sam
Interesting POV.You are 29 years old. A Spring Chicken.
You studied hard , worked hard and qualified as a Lawyer. Congratulations. You are not Council !!
Please don't throw all that potential away by Coasting
Man up , step up and take the job.
Not for the money maybe , which is always nice , but for your own self worth.
I'm 61 and working as an Engineer in Iraq.
Not coasting.
I can put this reply on an A4 Headed letter to you if you want but it will be 500.00 pounds plus vat. :-) Sorry , no Pound sign on my laptop
Sam
For me, self-worth comes from the things I do outside of work, rather than in it. A career is a means to an end; it's what it enables you to do that's important, rather than the career itself. If you spend all of your time working what's the point?
That you are still looking at other jobs despite receiving a pay rise and being in a role that, by your own description, has a bright future, indicates an underlying issue with the current role / firm imo
You should take the new job.
It might not be perfect. It might not even be better than the current job, but until you move, you will always be looking and wondering
You should take the new job.
It might not be perfect. It might not even be better than the current job, but until you move, you will always be looking and wondering
Sam99 said:
Hello,
You are 29 years old. A Spring Chicken.
You studied hard , worked hard and qualified as a Lawyer. Congratulations. You are not Council !!
Please don't throw all that potential away by Coasting
Man up , step up and take the job.
Not for the money maybe , which is always nice , but for your own self worth.
I'm 61 and working as an Engineer in Iraq.
Not coasting.
I can put this reply on an A4 Headed letter to you if you want but it will be 500.00 pounds plus vat. :-) Sorry , no Pound sign on my laptop
Sam
I agree with this. I have seen enough friends in 'comfortable' jobs whose talent is wasted, and could have done so much more if they'd been just a little braver.You are 29 years old. A Spring Chicken.
You studied hard , worked hard and qualified as a Lawyer. Congratulations. You are not Council !!
Please don't throw all that potential away by Coasting
Man up , step up and take the job.
Not for the money maybe , which is always nice , but for your own self worth.
I'm 61 and working as an Engineer in Iraq.
Not coasting.
I can put this reply on an A4 Headed letter to you if you want but it will be 500.00 pounds plus vat. :-) Sorry , no Pound sign on my laptop
Sam
Why shouldn't you coast,do what you want to do,not what others expect.All this rubbish about fulfilling potential is just that,rubbish.
Keep chasing the money,be a wage slave.When you look back in later years will you remember fondly the late evenings in the office,the long commute in the rain,the same decor of the chain hotel you stay in 3 nights a week.No,your best memories will be time spent with your family,meals out with the kids in the local pub,playing in the park on a summers evening.
Too many people are afraid to do what they want to do,they feel pressured to conform.I didn't used to think like this but having had a few family members die well before retirement age it has changed my view on life and who I live it for.
Keep chasing the money,be a wage slave.When you look back in later years will you remember fondly the late evenings in the office,the long commute in the rain,the same decor of the chain hotel you stay in 3 nights a week.No,your best memories will be time spent with your family,meals out with the kids in the local pub,playing in the park on a summers evening.
Too many people are afraid to do what they want to do,they feel pressured to conform.I didn't used to think like this but having had a few family members die well before retirement age it has changed my view on life and who I live it for.
the family point is the one to focus on for me....
a. the one hour commute.. for that wage, I expect 5.30 on the dot leaving is not the norm. Get stuck in traffic and it is no more story-time for the kid each night
b. the london day. will you travel down the night before or at 4am in the morning ? again impact to family.
i recently changed jobs and the most important opinion for me was that of my wife. As it is she who now has to deal with the kids each morning I am on the 7.05am train to london or up at 4.15am to get to heathrow.
yes go for the new job, stretch yourself, always be moving forward..... but the gap this leaves (with the children) can only be filled by your wife.
a. the one hour commute.. for that wage, I expect 5.30 on the dot leaving is not the norm. Get stuck in traffic and it is no more story-time for the kid each night
b. the london day. will you travel down the night before or at 4am in the morning ? again impact to family.
i recently changed jobs and the most important opinion for me was that of my wife. As it is she who now has to deal with the kids each morning I am on the 7.05am train to london or up at 4.15am to get to heathrow.
yes go for the new job, stretch yourself, always be moving forward..... but the gap this leaves (with the children) can only be filled by your wife.
Sounds like loads more time out of the house for an extra 20% or so in your pocket. Are you mortgaged up to the eyeballs or living comfortably on your current salary? Will you spend a chunk of the extra cash running a car & buying lunches etc as a result of working from the office instead of from home?
Personally if I didn't desperately need the money I'd stick with the current job and enjoy the time with my family, whereas 15 years ago I was single with no kids and would have chased the money. A job you enjoy which provides what you need is worth far more than a few extra quid at this time in your life.
Personally if I didn't desperately need the money I'd stick with the current job and enjoy the time with my family, whereas 15 years ago I was single with no kids and would have chased the money. A job you enjoy which provides what you need is worth far more than a few extra quid at this time in your life.
Breaking this down (sorry, didn't open in new page so going roughly from memory).
New job equals about 1500 pcm take home more.
However, one day a week in London - how long will it take you to get there and how much will that cost?
2-3 days a week, 1 hour each way. That is a lot of time you could spend with your son. Also, what is the cost of the commute? If by train you will be paying full train fare and car park.
It could easily be your net increase is minimal all things considered when costs of commute are taken into account let alone the time.
You have a young child and another on the way, now what it is worth to you to spend just that one hour a day commute with them? For me I would be happy in the current job, perhaps once the kids are that little bit older (i.e. 5 years time) then I'd look at increasing income and spending less time with the kids but whilst they are babies/toddlers surely the more time spent with them the better?!?
New job equals about 1500 pcm take home more.
However, one day a week in London - how long will it take you to get there and how much will that cost?
2-3 days a week, 1 hour each way. That is a lot of time you could spend with your son. Also, what is the cost of the commute? If by train you will be paying full train fare and car park.
It could easily be your net increase is minimal all things considered when costs of commute are taken into account let alone the time.
You have a young child and another on the way, now what it is worth to you to spend just that one hour a day commute with them? For me I would be happy in the current job, perhaps once the kids are that little bit older (i.e. 5 years time) then I'd look at increasing income and spending less time with the kids but whilst they are babies/toddlers surely the more time spent with them the better?!?
smifffymoto said:
Why shouldn't you coast,do what you want to do,not what others expect.All this rubbish about fulfilling potential is just that,rubbish.
Keep chasing the money,be a wage slave.When you look back in later years will you remember fondly the late evenings in the office,the long commute in the rain,the same decor of the chain hotel you stay in 3 nights a week.No,your best memories will be time spent with your family,meals out with the kids in the local pub,playing in the park on a summers evening.
If you are coasting and happy with life, then yes I agree with you. Purely anecdotal but the people who I know that are 'comfortable' job-wise are kind of trapped now and not all that happy.Keep chasing the money,be a wage slave.When you look back in later years will you remember fondly the late evenings in the office,the long commute in the rain,the same decor of the chain hotel you stay in 3 nights a week.No,your best memories will be time spent with your family,meals out with the kids in the local pub,playing in the park on a summers evening.
You seem to have a pretty nice job right now, good income, decent challenge, and lots of flexibility/low travel time.
I would not go for a function with much increased travel time and potential for more responsibility with one kid, and another on the way, unless there are very compelling financial reasons to (as in, you are barely making ends meet now)
As for the current job, if the scope/challenge is expanding structurally and significantly, you could consider asking your current boss for a promotion/raise (new pro forma title/role to cover the larger scope, even it is just a "senior" tacked on) in due time off course.
I would not go for a function with much increased travel time and potential for more responsibility with one kid, and another on the way, unless there are very compelling financial reasons to (as in, you are barely making ends meet now)
As for the current job, if the scope/challenge is expanding structurally and significantly, you could consider asking your current boss for a promotion/raise (new pro forma title/role to cover the larger scope, even it is just a "senior" tacked on) in due time off course.
It's your call fella. There will be as many views here as there are options for you but the decision is still yours, and your wife's, to make. You are 29 and you have a young family. 3-4 days at home every week?! That, to me, sounds like perfection, even if it is still hard work. I started my career (fully chartered status) aged 29, with a young family. I would have given up a bit of money to have had the working life you have.
You need to look carefully at the life/work balance and ask yourself whether the new company will end up owning you. Commercial law is always going to be a busy section of the legal profession, as is property law, but you are already in a high earning position (for a 29 year old) and it may be preferable to stay where you are and have a chat with the current head of your firm to understand what ongoing opportunities there are for you there. Partnership? Director? Bonus structure? It is odd that you don't have a bonus structure isn't it? Perhaps a performance based bonus may well tip the balance. Agree a document that is not onerous to either party and settle on a bonus that may bring you in line with the new offer without the hassle of the move and time away from the family. Done.
Good luck with the decision making.
You need to look carefully at the life/work balance and ask yourself whether the new company will end up owning you. Commercial law is always going to be a busy section of the legal profession, as is property law, but you are already in a high earning position (for a 29 year old) and it may be preferable to stay where you are and have a chat with the current head of your firm to understand what ongoing opportunities there are for you there. Partnership? Director? Bonus structure? It is odd that you don't have a bonus structure isn't it? Perhaps a performance based bonus may well tip the balance. Agree a document that is not onerous to either party and settle on a bonus that may bring you in line with the new offer without the hassle of the move and time away from the family. Done.
Good luck with the decision making.
Interesting topic. I'm in a similar position to the OP (a bit older but a near-three year old and another on the way) and am just about to hit 13 years at the firm I work for. I earn a better salary than I'd ever really hoped to and whilst I can't pretend that I'd turn down more money if it was going begging, I'm not prepared to sacrifice my family time to achieve it.
When I think about it, there's no material possession that I'd trade for time with my daughter and we don't go without anything as it is so I figure there's no point changing jobs or pushing for promotion just for the financial reward.
Which then gets you back to the question about how much you enjoy your work. It sounds like the OP is in a good situation from this perspective (challenging work, good relationships with colleagues, trust/flexibility). Those things can be all-too rare in a lot of jobs.
It's a tough call but I think of it like this. You can never buy back time with your kids and in twenty years they won't remember that you went on a slightly more expensive holiday when you got your bonus. They'll just remember that dad never used to be home to read them a story before they went to bed.
When I think about it, there's no material possession that I'd trade for time with my daughter and we don't go without anything as it is so I figure there's no point changing jobs or pushing for promotion just for the financial reward.
Which then gets you back to the question about how much you enjoy your work. It sounds like the OP is in a good situation from this perspective (challenging work, good relationships with colleagues, trust/flexibility). Those things can be all-too rare in a lot of jobs.
It's a tough call but I think of it like this. You can never buy back time with your kids and in twenty years they won't remember that you went on a slightly more expensive holiday when you got your bonus. They'll just remember that dad never used to be home to read them a story before they went to bed.
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