Do you eventually get over the claterring of a diesel?
Discussion
Phon_E87 said:
Wills2 said:
no revs to play with, tiny power band etc...
So adapt.Diesels are preferred by people who aren't interested in driving or engaging with their car (I know Rob_M77 will have something to say about that!) as generally they offer what performance they have low down in the rev-range. If you don't know/care/are able to downshift to get to the power, yes you're going to find the diesel more satisfying to drive. However, I like downchanging into the power band and not having to (or downchanging out of the powerband...) is a bit depressing. It ultimately makes the car a less rewarding thing to drive.
That said, six cylinder diesels are a lot more refined than fours. I do hate walking down the street and hearing the endless clatter of idling diesels. Or seeing a premium-badge car and then hearing it churning into life with a depressing clatter. I'm actually pleased when I spot a new car that's a petrol these days.
NDNDNDND said:
Phon_E87 said:
Wills2 said:
no revs to play with, tiny power band etc...
So adapt.Diesels are preferred by people who aren't interested in driving or engaging with their car (I know Rob_M77 will have something to say about that!) as generally they offer what performance they have low down in the rev-range. If you don't know/care/are able to downshift to get to the power, yes you're going to find the diesel more satisfying to drive. However, I like downchanging into the power band and not having to (or downchanging out of the powerband...) is a bit depressing. It ultimately makes the car a less rewarding thing to drive.
That said, six cylinder diesels are a lot more refined than fours. I do hate walking down the street and hearing the endless clatter of idling diesels. Or seeing a premium-badge car and then hearing it churning into life with a depressing clatter. I'm actually pleased when I spot a new car that's a petrol these days.
07 320d... lost the will to live with that one.
I think they are meant to be around 150bhp but it mist have lost around 100 somewhere on the way.
Personally having driven a lot of different cars there are very few modern turbo charged (petrol or diesel) engines that are not laggy horrible things.
There are a few gems, but they tend to be big displacement twin turbo units which can start to build useful boost just above idle and then come on boost between 1-2k. Due to smaller turbos and fairly conservative waste gate pressure they generally will keep boosting from 2 to 6 or above which is much nicer than a single turbo VAG motor which does not even get near full boost till 3500rpm and by 5000rpm its starting to run out of puff.
My Macan is a 3.0 turbo diesel and its really not nice to drive under 3000rpm. By 4500 its all over.
The only saving grace is PDK means you can generally keep it in that sweet spot but in stop start or around town its not nice.
I think they are meant to be around 150bhp but it mist have lost around 100 somewhere on the way.
Personally having driven a lot of different cars there are very few modern turbo charged (petrol or diesel) engines that are not laggy horrible things.
There are a few gems, but they tend to be big displacement twin turbo units which can start to build useful boost just above idle and then come on boost between 1-2k. Due to smaller turbos and fairly conservative waste gate pressure they generally will keep boosting from 2 to 6 or above which is much nicer than a single turbo VAG motor which does not even get near full boost till 3500rpm and by 5000rpm its starting to run out of puff.
My Macan is a 3.0 turbo diesel and its really not nice to drive under 3000rpm. By 4500 its all over.
The only saving grace is PDK means you can generally keep it in that sweet spot but in stop start or around town its not nice.
OldGermanHeaps said:
Do people who go from diesel to petrol ever learn to live with the lack of low to mid range torque? It must get tiring having to drop gears and use high revs to make civilised progress. If you do get a petrol car with diesel low-mid range torque it usually needs a fill up every 350 or so miles, that must be miserable?
If the replacement petrol car is a turbo petrol there's little or no difference in low end torque. But where the diesel runs out of steam the petrol one is happily starting to sing....Of course if the petrol replacement is a V8 torque monster its not an issue....
As for the filling up every 300 miles it isn't as much of a nuisance as getting diesel all over your hands when you do fill up (or having to wear silly plastic gloves).
OldGermanHeaps said:
Do people who go from diesel to petrol ever learn to live with the lack of low to mid range torque? It must get tiring having to drop gears and use high revs to make civilised progress. If you do get a petrol car with diesel low-mid range torque it usually needs a fill up every 350 or so miles, that must be miserable?
I think I would struggle unless I was in a turbo petrol of some kind. When I drive my other half's SL350, it's quicker off the line than my E320 diesel but when you want to overtake and get on the power, it's dropping a gear or two (7spd) before it feels quick in gear. My E always feels like it's on the boil and I would miss that if I went for a 'normal' saloon.
NDNDNDND said:
Diesels are preferred by people who aren't interested in driving or engaging with their car
Not true for everyone with a diesel. I have a diesel daily drive, I am interested in cars!However the A4 suits my daily slog up and down the M40. Example; I bought the wifes car in today (because I had fuel she didn't, now she has fuel, funny how that works isn't it
) It is an NA petrol and as soon as I was on the motorway I noticed how much I was having to swap cogs to keep up with the flow, I will be glad to hand it back over to her later on. My car performs the same run without having to continually swap gears. Despite what many would have you believe swapping gears on the motorway is not an "engaging drive" its just tiresome!If I were doing her commute (5 miles across the city) then I would be happy enough with her car as it is all stop start dual carriageway running.
I also own a race car, this is petrol and RWD.
Horses, for courses!
Depends what engaging with the car involves really.
No you can't get in my E class and take it down a country lane and get to the end grinning like you can in my Twingo 133. But for the main part where I'm sat cruising along the motorway, comfy heated seat, quiet, smooth, economical and torquey, I find my E class thoroughly enjoyable.
There are different angles to being a petrolhead and a lot of it depends on what driving you need to do and what driving you want to do.
No you can't get in my E class and take it down a country lane and get to the end grinning like you can in my Twingo 133. But for the main part where I'm sat cruising along the motorway, comfy heated seat, quiet, smooth, economical and torquey, I find my E class thoroughly enjoyable.
There are different angles to being a petrolhead and a lot of it depends on what driving you need to do and what driving you want to do.
red_slr said:
07 320d... lost the will to live with that one.
I think they are meant to be around 150bhp but it mist have lost around 100 somewhere on the way.
Personally having driven a lot of different cars there are very few modern turbo charged (petrol or diesel) engines that are not laggy horrible things.
Either yours was broken or mine is broken in a good way I think they are meant to be around 150bhp but it mist have lost around 100 somewhere on the way.
Personally having driven a lot of different cars there are very few modern turbo charged (petrol or diesel) engines that are not laggy horrible things.
I have an '07 320d as my first ever diesel and it feels every bit of its 163bhp and has zero lag at any point, unless you're well down on revs for ages and then suddenly require loads of power, which happens to me about once a month or two (i.e. not very often). Maybe it's a driving style issue? Lack of lag was why I switched to diesel in the first place.Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 24th August 13:14
cerb4.5lee said:
This hits the nail on the head for me...spot on.
I find it hard to believe that anyone gets out of a diesel thinking how great the engine is.
Yep, just use my diesel Golf appliance for my 53 mile each way daily commute. Fast enough once you're in fifth, just put the air-con & Classic FM on and relax up and down the motorway (99% of my commute is motorway). Trip computer says I average 41 mpg, which is fine. I find it hard to believe that anyone gets out of a diesel thinking how great the engine is.
As for the sound, well it's s
t. 
I occasionally notice it (more often the diesel noise is more apparent to me in queues.)
It is one of those things though that fades with a few weeks or months of experience.
Similarly after a few weeks or so you will get used to driving on the torque and shifting at 4k rpm or less without feeling you are betraying a core principal.
If you do an appreciable mileage you may even feel like you have had a small pay rise when you look aback at the last few fuel bills.
But then I am happy with my lot because at the end of the day the Golf is just my shopping trolley/work wagon. If i want i can get into a 3 litre 4, a 3.6 straight 6 or a 4 litre V8 in the morning.
I therefore believe that the key to living with and enjoying diesel ownership is to also have a dirty big V8 or similar for the odd bit of fun.
It is one of those things though that fades with a few weeks or months of experience.
Similarly after a few weeks or so you will get used to driving on the torque and shifting at 4k rpm or less without feeling you are betraying a core principal.
If you do an appreciable mileage you may even feel like you have had a small pay rise when you look aback at the last few fuel bills.
But then I am happy with my lot because at the end of the day the Golf is just my shopping trolley/work wagon. If i want i can get into a 3 litre 4, a 3.6 straight 6 or a 4 litre V8 in the morning.
I therefore believe that the key to living with and enjoying diesel ownership is to also have a dirty big V8 or similar for the odd bit of fun.
Modern diesels do sound better than the older units. A brand new Audi A6 2.0 TDI drove past my house the other day and it genuinely sounded quite pleasant. It had an element of a high-powered petrol growl to it. My dad's 2009 535D Touring also sounds good at full chat. When the turbos are really kicking in it does have something similar to a V8 rumble.
That noise on idle is still grim though. It is getting better and it can only really be heard from the outside by the general public who probably couldn't care less anyway. The noise isn't the problem for me, nor is it that they're just quite boring. It's actually that they're getting better and faster than the petrol equivalent.
That noise on idle is still grim though. It is getting better and it can only really be heard from the outside by the general public who probably couldn't care less anyway. The noise isn't the problem for me, nor is it that they're just quite boring. It's actually that they're getting better and faster than the petrol equivalent.
The very best car diesel engines invoke an overwhelming sense of indifference, and the worst are dreadful.
As a package, for cars which are generally dull anyway, they work fine. They'll always sound crap, but it doesn't really matter and it's highly unlikely to actually bother you.
If, like most PHers, a car is just an object to get you from A to B, it'll do its job and you won't really care about the diesel knock.
It's still petrol every day of the week if I want to feel good about my car. The fuel economy gap is nowhere near where diesel owners want it to be to justify their misery. My 2014 542bhp supercharged petrol V8 is using the same amount of fuel per mile as my 2014 200bhp commonrail injection turbo diesel pickup truck.
As a package, for cars which are generally dull anyway, they work fine. They'll always sound crap, but it doesn't really matter and it's highly unlikely to actually bother you.
If, like most PHers, a car is just an object to get you from A to B, it'll do its job and you won't really care about the diesel knock.
It's still petrol every day of the week if I want to feel good about my car. The fuel economy gap is nowhere near where diesel owners want it to be to justify their misery. My 2014 542bhp supercharged petrol V8 is using the same amount of fuel per mile as my 2014 200bhp commonrail injection turbo diesel pickup truck.
NDNDNDND said:
Diesels are preferred by people who aren't interested in driving or engaging with their car
Your presumptiousness is outweighed only marginally by your ability to construct a sweeping statement.Both however are at once impressive, and egregious.
I'm more than interested in driving and engaging with my motor.
Now I have something completely different from my last one, it makes it more of an adventure and a learning experience, and that's all part of the fun, and I get a real kick out driving my car.
If you don't understand that, that's fine, but lay off the b
ks.culpz said:
That noise on idle is still grim though. It is getting better and it can only really be heard from the outside by the general public who probably couldn't care less anyway. The noise isn't the problem for me, nor is it that they're just quite boring.
As a member of the general public, may I remind you that as well as sounding bad it also smells bad and furthermore I firmly believe that like-for-like, diesel is worse for the environment than petrol (This is an unpopular topic of discussion on these forums, I know...) 
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff