RE: Ford Mustang outsells Audi TT!

RE: Ford Mustang outsells Audi TT!

Author
Discussion

Hefferlump

5 posts

92 months

Thursday 25th August 2016
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jamieduff1981 said:
I honestly can't think of anything the TT does better as a sporty type of car, other than "be German" which admittedly seems to be the primary criteria for many British car buyers suffering from a maturity complex.
YES! We seem to be being Germanned to death these days, mainly by impressionable and egotistical bimbos who just LOOOOOVE the badge and believe the hype.
Went to Salford Quays 5 weeks ago (130 mile trip) and noticed three sad German badges on the Hard Shoulder (in breakdown mode). So not just the MUSTANGS with reliability probs!

macky17

2,210 posts

188 months

Thursday 25th August 2016
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Is it really so wide? Having owned a C6 Z06 vette in LHD and driven in anger on B roads many times, I can't see how this can be so much of a problem - the vette was 193cm wide and 203cm mirror tip to mirror tip. Sometimes cars feel bigger than they are when the steering/chassis fails to give you that confidence in its accuracy so perhaps that's the issue.

I'm imagining one of these with a kickass aftermarket suspension, a proper laser alignment and a supercharger/exhaust - then I think you'll have something special.

Not sure how much notice to take of these sales figures but if they result in the Shelby gt350 being bought over, it's all good.

tali1

5,265 posts

200 months

Thursday 25th August 2016
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kambites said:
DaveH23 said:
The bit that stood out as a shock to me in the article was the fact you can buy a diesel TT. I assumed they were all petrol.
Have you been living in a cave? biggrin

I haven't seen the figures but I suspect the majority of TTs sold in the UK are diesel; if it's a minority it's a very large one.
On Atrader 1914 are petrol and 642 are Diesel.Newer cars the gap is closer -with petrol still edging it

NJH

3,021 posts

208 months

Thursday 25th August 2016
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greghm said:
MadDog1962 said:
They're not bad, but just too bulky to hustle down narrow British roads. .
even driving a Fiat Panda on those roads is scary smile
I understand where this idea comes from but I live in the country and drive down country lanes all the time, out of all the cars I have owned the perfect vehicle for it is my battered old diesel Range Rover. Yes the roads round here are that bad. I wouldn't drive the Mustang or any other nice car down these lanes because it would get wrecked in no time. Cracked the sump on a Porsche on one of these roads, hit a section with ludicrous camber in the road and bottomed the fecker out.

The better faster B and A roads round here are all wide enough for the HGVs that use them to drive along so I can't see a Mustang being a problem.

NJH

3,021 posts

208 months

Thursday 25th August 2016
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Forgot to add trailers, tractors, vans and trucks all use the same roads, I trailer myself through tiny little village roads and you just get used to it. Scary at first and your convinced you will get caught somewhere but you just don't.

Devil2575

13,400 posts

187 months

Thursday 25th August 2016
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LuS1fer said:
I can't really take you seriously. if you think you're not part of the problem because "it's just a Ford", there is no point arguing about it.
People LEASE BMWs rather than buy them.
What..oh no, please don't say you're not taking me seriously! Oh my god! what am I going to do now!?

Err, I kind of thought that I made it clear in my last post, but obviously you're a little bit hard of thinking.

I was talking about what other people think you doofus. And yes, other people do think "It's just a Ford". You might not like or agree with this but it is a fact so get over it. As to whether it's a problem or not, it's actually got as much to do with how Ford have branded themselves as anything else. Ford has always been a blue collar brand. I happen to like Fords and I think their cars are better than a lot of more expensive brands.

LuS1fer said:
I agree there must be an imagined status as none would sell on looks or performance, bar the M4.
Whether you like it or not there is a status and it isn't imagined. The response I got from family members, who know nothing about cars, when I turned up in a BMW was vastly different from when I turned up in a Ford. Same at work. I lost count of the number of times I got "We must be paying you too much money"

LuS1fer said:



Funnily enough, I do a lot of car shows and people do love and know their Mustangs and no matter how many times you mention it is a Ford, no-one seems to care nor does it alter their perception, nor do they care about any BMW (or even 911) parked next to it.
That said, the new Mustang is very Audi-ish and I have seen many and thought it an A5, from a distance. Shame.
The Mustang has novelty value, it looks American and it looks different. They are impressive cars because we don't really have anything like them, or at least we didn't until the Vauxhall Monaro, but that was/is very rare and doesn't look look quite as striking as a Mustang. However the Mustang in the works car park caused a lot less of a stir than when someone turned up in a 911 C4S, not least because one was considered to be a flash, expensive to buy and run car and the other wasn't.
You might also have noticed that people who know a bit about cars tend to go to car shows.

LuS1fer said:
By coupes, I didn't mean two door saloons like BMW make, it was always hard to tell them apart. I mean nobody ever called a 2 door Cortina a coupe, that was a German thing. If it hadn't been for the M3, I doubt anyone would notice.
Then we had the pseudo-coupe like the Scirocco which is just a hatchback.

You are of course right that most of these "aspirational" coupes have tractor engines and I shudder to think that Ford might suddenly come over all mainstream sales and plonk one in.
The fact that in this sector Ford aren't mainstream is precisely why they don't own it.

LuS1fer said:
Americans have owned the sector because, not for one second have they contemplated fitting a diesel, not for one second have they lay down and rolled in laurels and let the product become stagnant. What is amazing is that the Mustang has continued to sell in huge numbers in the US, even when it was a crappy little base spec V6, even when they tried to replace it with the Probe, even when the base v8, in 2005, produced a reasonable 300hp, they evolved and increased the power and capacity. The Mustang single-handedly brought back the Challenger and the Camaro from the dead.

In Europe, the TT has sold from a high of around 38000 cars in 07 to 22000 cars in 2015. In 205, the Mustang only sold just under 5000 units in its first year.
However, in the US, the TT managed 1167 in the US while the Mustang sold 122,000 cars in 2015 (a high of 160,000 cars in 2006) which is not bad for a car with a base engine of 3.7 litres making 305hp. Even the Camaro only managed 77000 in the US in 2015.
By comparison, BMW sold 140,000 3 and 4 series cars in the US - that's for every model though - coupe, sedan, convertible etc.

Finally, it "owns the sector" in terms of what you get for your money - £37k gets you the square root of sod all in the BMW line-up.
I also think people fool themselves - i don't know of anyone who is impressed by anyone having a BMW or an Audi - they seem to fool themselves that others are impressed - but people generally assume they are leased or on PCP, regardless.
The Americans own this sector in the US in terms of volume because they are cheap and because fuel is cheap. They also only own the mainstream side of the sector, they do not own the premium side as they are not seen as premium cars.

Outside of the US they do not own this sector, mainstream or premium.

s m

23,164 posts

202 months

Thursday 25th August 2016
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sege said:
Gibbo205 said:
I am loving mine, when its on the road but thats another story:



etc...
Lovely car. That does look fantastic. Subtle body kit all around?
What suspension is it running? I looks very low, but nice. Is the ride rock hard or manageable on the road?

I had a very brief drive of a V8 and I thought it was very nice. I'm a mild American car snob but this car converted me. I could very easily see myself using one as a daily driver (fuel bills allowing). Much nicer and more characterful then most modern whiteware type cars.
Looks very nice Gibbo thumbup

I had an old Mustang back in the early 80s - was only a decade or so old and the straight line performance/burble probably wasn't too far adrift of a new 5 litre but it would be great to try a modern one that's better tied down with great brakes



Saw a new one down in Croyde a few weeks back - certainly seemed to arouse interest from all the evening ice-cream eaters and strollers.

Guess we'll get used to seeing them soon

DaveGB

1,670 posts

180 months

Friday 26th August 2016
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Really enjoyed the test drive in one and although it didn't feel too big, it's definitely bigger than some other Ford sports cars wink


fttm

3,667 posts

134 months

Friday 26th August 2016
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[quote=jamieduff1981]I'm kinda wondering how long it'll be until ads appear where the wky little 4-pot is being sold as "the rare and sought after" engine :lol:[/quote

4cyl Mustang ? are you off your meds ?

smithyithy

7,192 posts

117 months

Friday 26th August 2016
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First one I saw in the flesh was parked at a motorway services next to an Audi 5 coupe and didn't really look any bigger

croyde

22,705 posts

229 months

Friday 26th August 2016
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I placed a deposit as soon as the prices were announced, thus my GT only cost £34k with sat Nav and parking sensors.

I have no trouble hustling around my tiny country lanes or in the cut and thrust of central London, but then one of my previous cars was another V8, an old Mercury Grand Marquis which I also used to commute through London daily, and I was just as quick in it as I am in my 3-series.

It's a lot of car for the money and with my version now priced at £2k more when I have only had mine 8 months I might even have a car who's value doesn't drop like a stone.

Mind you, I have had my 3-series 18 years and I would like to keep the Mustang for a similar time if not longer.

Really cheap to insure as well.

Mark and George

23 posts

163 months

Friday 26th August 2016
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This is George's new Ruby Red GT in Los Angeles.
Wonderful exhaust note and she is quick. Very good looking too, although headroom in the rear seats of the Fastback is very restricted. So I've ordered the Convertible GT having hired a Convertible there last week. That has better rear headroom and opening rear windows too. Quicker than an M3.


mikearwas

1,112 posts

158 months

Friday 26th August 2016
quotequote all
Mark and George said:


This is George's new Ruby Red GT in Los Angeles.
Wonderful exhaust note and she is quick. Very good looking too, although headroom in the rear seats of the Fastback is very restricted. So I've ordered the Convertible GT having hired a Convertible there last week. That has better rear headroom and opening rear windows too. Quicker than an M3.
Quicker than an M3? Behave. Not unless it's been seriously breathed on. That mustang is lovely but the turbocharged m cars are silly quick.

leef44

4,359 posts

152 months

Friday 26th August 2016
quotequote all
LuS1fer said:
I can't really take you seriously. if you think you're not part of the problem because "it's just a Ford", there is no point arguing about it.
People LEASE BMWs rather than buy them.
I agree there must be an imagined status as none would sell on looks or performance, bar the M4.
Funnily enough, I do a lot of car shows and people do love and know their Mustangs and no matter how many times you mention it is a Ford, no-one seems to care nor does it alter their perception, nor do they care about any BMW (or even 911) parked next to it.
That said, the new Mustang is very Audi-ish and I have seen many and thought it an A5, from a distance. Shame.

By coupes, I didn't mean two door saloons like BMW make, it was always hard to tell them apart. I mean nobody ever called a 2 door Cortina a coupe, that was a German thing. If it hadn't been for the M3, I doubt anyone would notice.
Then we had the pseudo-coupe like the Scirocco which is just a hatchback.

You are of course right that most of these "aspirational" coupes have tractor engines and I shudder to think that Ford might suddenly come over all mainstream sales and plonk one in.

Americans have owned the sector because, not for one second have they contemplated fitting a diesel, not for one second have they lay down and rolled in laurels and let the product become stagnant. What is amazing is that the Mustang has continued to sell in huge numbers in the US, even when it was a crappy little base spec V6, even when they tried to replace it with the Probe, even when the base v8, in 2005, produced a reasonable 300hp, they evolved and increased the power and capacity. The Mustang single-handedly brought back the Challenger and the Camaro from the dead.

In Europe, the TT has sold from a high of around 38000 cars in 07 to 22000 cars in 2015. In 205, the Mustang only sold just under 5000 units in its first year.
However, in the US, the TT managed 1167 in the US while the Mustang sold 122,000 cars in 2015 (a high of 160,000 cars in 2006) which is not bad for a car with a base engine of 3.7 litres making 305hp. Even the Camaro only managed 77000 in the US in 2015.
By comparison, BMW sold 140,000 3 and 4 series cars in the US - that's for every model though - coupe, sedan, convertible etc.

Finally, it "owns the sector" in terms of what you get for your money - £37k gets you the square root of sod all in the BMW line-up.
I also think people fool themselves - i don't know of anyone who is impressed by anyone having a BMW or an Audi - they seem to fool themselves that others are impressed - but people generally assume they are leased or on PCP, regardless.
Agreed. It just feels so much cooler owning a V8 Mustang than a 2 litre diesel BMW

(Bmw 3 SERIES 320d M Sport 4dr Step Auto Diesel Saloon £34k, with options can climb to £48k)

Devil2575

13,400 posts

187 months

Friday 26th August 2016
quotequote all
leef44 said:
Agreed. It just feels so much cooler owning a V8 Mustang than a 2 litre diesel BMW

(Bmw 3 SERIES 320d M Sport 4dr Step Auto Diesel Saloon £34k, with options can climb to £48k)
Yes but you can get a 340i M sport 4dr for £38k and a 330i M sport for £35k. So what about options, you can spec any car up if you tick lots of boxes on the order form. Also why pick the auto? Is the V8 Mustang you are comparing it too an auto?

Yes BMWs are more expensive than Fords, but to suggest that for the price of a V8 Mustang you'd be driving a 2 litre diesel is just rubbish.


LuS1fer

41,086 posts

244 months

Friday 26th August 2016
quotequote all
Devil2575 said:
...mainly piffle
I tried so hard to be impressed by these cars but then someone told me they were only Fords. rolleyes




People who go to car shows don't always know about cars, most I would say don't from the dull questions they ask.
After 11 years owning a Mustang, no-one has ever said "It's only a Ford"...not once.
Guess it's you then.

crostonian

2,427 posts

171 months

Friday 26th August 2016
quotequote all
I've just sold mine, a V8 GT Manual, not sure why but I have and I made a few quid too. It didn't quite blow me away like I thought it would, the engine sound is muted, the pitch and dive is noticeable and it's a big car that doesn't have that magic trick of shrinking around you. It is screaming out to be modified which is all well and dandy unless your car is on finance and then you have the insurance implications.

AndySheff

Original Poster:

6,630 posts

206 months

Friday 26th August 2016
quotequote all
LuS1fer said:
I tried so hard to be impressed by these cars but then someone told me they were only Fords. rolleyes




People who go to car shows don't always know about cars, most I would say don't from the dull questions they ask.
After 11 years owning a Mustang, no-one has ever said "It's only a Ford"...not once.
Guess it's you then.
Have you sat in them and felt the plastic ? And how wide are they ??!!

Devil2575

13,400 posts

187 months

Friday 26th August 2016
quotequote all
LuS1fer said:
I tried so hard to be impressed by these cars but then someone told me they were only Fords. rolleyes




People who go to car shows don't always know about cars, most I would say don't from the dull questions they ask.
After 11 years owning a Mustang, no-one has ever said "It's only a Ford"...not once.
Guess it's you then.
Stop being a clown.

Have you been to school or even learnt any life skills at all? How about being able to understand and explain someone else's point of view without agreeing with it.

No one has said to your face "it's only a Ford", but people do think like that. I work with a lot of young graduates and I've heard those exact words. In fact it was used about a Brand new Focus RS a few years back, also described as a Chav car, by lads who went out and bought Audis with their new found wealth. I know another guy who was after a 4x4 sort of thing and scoffed when people suggested a Kuga, he wouldn't be seen dead in a Ford. He bought a used Merc ML in the end. To suggest that no on thinks like this and it's just me is frankly laughable. The irony of you saying to me that you can't take me seriously.

Why do you think Honda never sold Many Honda NSXs? Was it because it was no good, outclassed by the 911 or was it because it had the wrong badge?

Oh and for the record this is what you can get by way of a BMW:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...


Or this

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

This is the cheapest new V8 Mustang on Autotrader

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

Yes you get more power with the Ford, but then people are prepared to pay more for the Badge with a BMW, and perhaps a little bit more polished handling and some nicer soft touch plastics etc.

And for the 3rd time, no I don't think like that and I'd buy a Ford over a VAG product any day of the week for example. But I guess this will fall on deaf ears because you don't seem to be able to understand the concept of knowing someone else's opinion and being able to explain it without agreeing with it. Do yourself a favour, never get a job that requires you to negotiate because you'd be st at it. wink




Edited by Devil2575 on Friday 26th August 18:39

LuS1fer

41,086 posts

244 months

Friday 26th August 2016
quotequote all
AndySheff said:
Have you sat in them and felt the plastic ? And how wide are they ??!!
I recall Performance car saying the old GT felt like an Elise to drive. The old car had the daft doors though so you needed space to get out.

As for width, not sure but I refuse to have an Enzo for that reason wink