RE: Ford Mustang outsells Audi TT!

[Devil2575]

LuS1fer said:

Wow, I'm not sure where you live but people still drop their jaws and gawp at my 2005 Mustang. It's more than a mere Ford, it's an icon.
Back in the 80s the Capri sold on great value.
A 1984 test had a 2.8i Special at £9500. By way of competition, we had
Alfa GTV 2000 - 9365 (GTV6 was 11700)
Audi GT Coupe at 9514
BMW didn't have much and a 323 was over £10k
Prelude Executive was 8500
Lancia Coupe Volumex 8315
RX7 - 10500
Starion 12499
Silvia ZX 9000
924 Coupe 11600 (944 was over £16k)
Fuego Turbo 9300
Supra 2.8i 11500
Scirocco Storm 9800

I understand your point about the current infatuation with German "quality" but think you may be part of the problem so far as that illusion goes. In 1984, the coupe was on the wane, in favour of hot hatches - a 5 GT Turbo was £6150 and a 205 GTI 6400 and a Golf GTI 8000.
However, your assertion that people are going to be more impressed by a BMW/audi over a Mustang is, frankly, hilarious.
The Cougar and Probe failed because coupes were becoming unpopular and were fairly humdrum appliances.
The tide has turned and coupes are now cool - the Americans have taken the sector and pretty much owned it with power hikes and improvements in handling.
As for "petrolheads", people still think Mustangs are expensive cars and still wildly overvalue them when out in public.

I'm not sure how I'm part of a problem, if indeed a problem even exists.

The Mustang is different and unusual, which is why it attracts attention. However once the novelty factor wears off and everyone realises it is just a Ford a lot of that attention will be lost. There's a reason why companies spend money on branding, it works. Many people buy cars pretty much on the strength of the brand alone even if they wouldn't admit it. If it wasn't for branding no one would have bought a 116i for example.It has nothing to do with quality and everything to do the BMW badge being seen as a status symbol, despite what the well heeled on PH might say.

Truth is many people won't even know what a Mustang is and when you tell them it's a Ford they will not be that impressed.

Coupes not that popular in the 90s? How many 3 series coupes did BMW sell? A coupe is all about image and Ford just doesn't say that you're doing well.

Are coupes really becomming that much cooler now? I also bet the vast majority of coupes sold today are diesels and German.

How exactly have the Americans owned the sector?

I should add, my views on what other people think are not my preferences. I don't care much for branding and don't give two hoots what other people think my car says about me, hence why I currently drive a 13 year old Focus estate.

Edited by Devil2575 on Wednesday 24th August 20:24

[lee_erm]

Devil2575 said:

hence why I currently drive a 13 year old Focus estate.

Which was built in Saarlouis, Germany

[996TT02]

Matt Bird said:

Not rational because it officially does 20mpg, is still quite big in the UK and something like a TT (dare I say it) probably covers more bases.

If you are into a somewhat non sensible car - and one with quite a few ponies - 20mpg or otherwise is not that relevant, it's still reasonable.

As far as size goes - 4.78m for the Mustang, 4.63m for the BMW 4 series - 15cm in it - and no-one calls the BMW "still quite big in the UK".

Incidentally the BMW 6 series is 4.89m long - and not too many comments about "way too big for the UK" - despite it being 11cm longer than the Mustang.

All cars have been getting larger mostly due to safety regs and customer expectations so Euros are far from the tiddlers they once used to be, and Yanks don't need to get any larger.

[kambites]

996TT02 said:

As far as size goes - 4.78m for the Mustang, 4.63m for the BMW 4 series - 15cm in it - and no-one calls the BMW "still quite big in the UK".

Incidentally the BMW 6 series is 4.89m long - and not too many comments about "way too big for the UK" - despite it being 11cm longer than the Mustang.

Well yes, but no-one considers them to be sports cars either. Anyway, width matters far more than length when driving and the Mustang is almost 10cm wider than the 4-series and is a bit wider even than the 6-series. Fine on an A-road but a bit of an arse on a narrow country B-road where a "sports car" should really come into its own.

The width is perfectly fit for purpose, it's just that purpose isn't being a sports car.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 24th August 21:46

[tali1]

LuS1fer said:

Devil2575 said:

LuS1fer said:

Not really a difficult choice over a TT and an F-type is vastly more expensive.

It's really a modern Capri 2.8i which also sold a lot despite it's architecture and lack of economy.

It is but there is a big difference between the Capri and the Mustang. When the capri was new it wasn't competing with the likes of Audi and BMW. At the time the german brands were much more expensive and not anything like as mainstream as they are now. Owning a new Ford coupe back in the 70s and 80s was quite cool and was the kind of thing that might impress the neighbours, these days however nothing with a Blue oval on it is going to impress anyone except perhaps a petrolhead. This is the reason why cars like the Cougar and probe were such dismal failures. Coupes are all about image and Ford just doesn't have it.

For this reason I disagree completely with this comment:

Wow, I'm not sure where you live but people still drop their jaws and gawp at my 2005 Mustang. It's more than a mere Ford, it's an icon.
Back in the 80s the Capri sold on great value.
A 1984 test had a 2.8i Special at £9500. By way of competition, we had
Alfa GTV 2000 - 9365 (GTV6 was 11700)
Audi GT Coupe at 9514
BMW didn't have much and a 323 was over £10k
Prelude Executive was 8500
Lancia Coupe Volumex 8315
RX7 - 10500
Starion 12499
Silvia ZX 9000
924 Coupe 11600 (944 was over £16k)
Fuego Turbo 9300
Supra 2.8i 11500
Scirocco Storm 9800

I understand your point about the current infatuation with German "quality" but think you may be part of the problem so far as that illusion goes. In 1984, the coupe was on the wane, in favour of hot hatches - a 5 GT Turbo was £6150 and a 205 GTI 6400 and a Golf GTI 8000.
However, your assertion that people are going to be more impressed by a BMW/audi over a Mustang is, frankly, hilarious.
The Cougar and Probe failed because coupes were becoming unpopular and were fairly humdrum appliances.
The tide has turned and coupes are now cool - the Americans have taken the sector and pretty much owned it with power hikes and improvements in handling.
As for "petrolheads", people still think Mustangs are expensive cars and still wildly overvalue them when out in public.

European coupes might have been on the wane but def not the Japs -they sold shed loads.Capri great value up to a point(yes it had a big v6 to the rivals fours - but the Jasp had far more spec and tech .A direct engine rival the far more expensive Supra 2.8i - had loads more spec over the Capri- it was to top-end Granada levels

996TT02 said:

Matt Bird said:

Not rational because it officially does 20mpg, is still quite big in the UK and something like a TT (dare I say it) probably covers more bases.

If you are into a somewhat non sensible car - and one with quite a few ponies - 20mpg or otherwise is not that relevant, it's still reasonable.

As far as size goes - 4.78m for the Mustang, 4.63m for the BMW 4 series - 15cm in it - and no-one calls the BMW "still quite big in the UK".

Incidentally the BMW 6 series is 4.89m long - and not too many comments about "way too big for the UK" - despite it being 11cm longer than the Mustang.

All cars have been getting larger mostly due to safety regs and customer expectations so Euros are far from the tiddlers they once used to be, and Yanks don't need to get any larger.

They sell shed loads of "way too big for the UK" - Range Rovers

Edited by tali1 on Wednesday 24th August 21:48

[Gorbyrev]

Well done Ford. It took a lot of guts engineering the Mustang for RHD and it is great to see it paying off. Sensible money for a well engineered product that fills a gap in the market, that is quite an achievement. As to whether the Mustang is a sports car I guess that depends on your definition. I have yet to drive one but I suspect it is more of a budget GT with ample power and decent enough handling. It certainly is not a muscle car in the old mould of all power, no chassis and marginal brakes. Indeed my one regret is that the GT350 and GT350R will not be making their way across. They seem like an RS alternative and , I suspect, would sell well. The C7 'vette, the Z28 Camaro (those tyres need to be seen to be believed), even products like the Challenger/Charger Hellcat prove that the US market caters for petrolheads in a very encouraging way.

[Pommygranite]

A good looking RWD manual 5.0 V8 coupe that has, in every review, done well, is well equipped, handles well, is fun, has a sense of occasion and is less than £40k and people are complaining.

Jesus H Christ.

[Dave Hedgehog]

996TT02 said:

Matt Bird said:

Not rational because it officially does 20mpg, is still quite big in the UK and something like a TT (dare I say it) probably covers more bases.

If you are into a somewhat non sensible car - and one with quite a few ponies - 20mpg or otherwise is not that relevant, it's still reasonable.

As far as size goes - 4.78m for the Mustang, 4.63m for the BMW 4 series - 15cm in it - and no-one calls the BMW "still quite big in the UK".

Incidentally the BMW 6 series is 4.89m long - and not too many comments about "way too big for the UK" - despite it being 11cm longer than the Mustang.

All cars have been getting larger mostly due to safety regs and customer expectations so Euros are far from the tiddlers they once used to be, and Yanks don't need to get any larger.

Exactly, it's pretty hard not to notice that every third car in the supermarket carpark is a giant suv/crossover that dwarfs the stang

[sege]

Gibbo205 said:

I am loving mine, when its on the road but thats another story:



etc...

Lovely car. That does look fantastic. Subtle body kit all around?
What suspension is it running? I looks very low, but nice. Is the ride rock hard or manageable on the road?

I had a very brief drive of a V8 and I thought it was very nice. I'm a mild American car snob but this car converted me. I could very easily see myself using one as a daily driver (fuel bills allowing). Much nicer and more characterful then most modern whiteware type cars.

[chrispj]

Good to hear these are selling well. Lots of respect for people choosing something a bit different from the norm. I've seen a few of these out and about in Devon, mostly V8 coupes, but there was one white convertible cruising the seafront one sunny day, driven by two attractive blonde ladies (the missus cattily asked if I was checking out the car or the occupants...). Sadly they'd settled for the Ecoboost though.

They are too big for my taste so I wouldn't choose a Mustang as a second car but if you have the space I can't see how they are any less rational than a TT with tiny back seats and not a huge amount of luggage space. Actually the only reasons I can see that you'd buy the TT is for the soft touch interior and dash design, every other aspect is covered better by one competitor or another. Or if you believe the CO2 and mpg figures and you can't live without the clatter of a diesel in your life...

But vive la difference and long may the Mustang stay at the top of the charts. Gives me hope the future isn't German...

[PanzerCommander]

Pommygranite said:

A good looking RWD manual 5.0 V8 coupe that has, in every review, done well, is well equipped, handles well, is fun, has a sense of occasion and is less than £40k and people are complaining.

Jesus H Christ.

But it hasn't got the right badge dahhhhling, how on earth can one show off to ones fellow middle class wannabes with a Ford.

I know far to many people who would buy a base spec BMW 1 series or <insert generic boring resale grey 'premium' car here> over fully equipped Ford Focus for the same money because one has a badge that is perceived to be flash and the other doesn't.

People have also fallen for the perceived build quality over what build quality actually is; talk to many and their idea of build quality is soft touch plastics and the noise the door makes when it closes rather than it being based on whether the car falls to bits and breaks down after a couple of hundred yards.

I have owned a 2006 Mustang for over seven years, it has now done over 95,000 miles (23,000 on it when I bought it) and the only things that I have replaced due to breakages are general wear and tear items that you expect on a 10 year old car.

[DaveH23]

The bit that stood out as a shock to me in the article was the fact you can buy a diesel TT. I assumed they were all petrol.

[kambites]

DaveH23 said:

The bit that stood out as a shock to me in the article was the fact you can buy a diesel TT. I assumed they were all petrol.

Have you been living in a cave?

I haven't seen the figures but I suspect the majority of TTs sold in the UK are diesel; if it's a minority it's a very large one.

[Dave Hedgehog]

DaveH23 said:

The bit that stood out as a shock to me in the article was the fact you can buy a diesel TT. I assumed they were all petrol.

its like the rocco, they want the badge and to look good for the neighbours but have no interest in driving and want high mpg

it should be illegal to make them IMO

[darkyoung1000]

A friend of mine has a GT having put down his deposit ages ago, and seeing his excitement grow as the delivery date got closer was splendid.
Then the car arrived....

It's even better than he thought and he's over the moon. The engine is a peach, it's very practical, handling is good and it's got all the toys a techie could want. Cooled seats in 35 degree France are apparently a very good thing...
We drove in convoy to Le Mans Classic this year and had a cracking time getting there as well as at the race.

Sounds good, looks good, goes well and puts a massive smile on his (and my) face. What's not to like? If I were shopping for a car around that kind of price, I'd have the Mustang every time over the TT (said as a VAG owner).

[*Al*]

I'd have a yellow V8 manual in a heartbeat.

[Bladedancer]

What make me wonder is who the heck buys this thing with the I4 engine anyways. The whole point of the car IS the V8.

[Gibbo205]

Welshwonder said:

That rear spoiler makes the rear end look much better - aftermarket or option? Also lowered?

The V8 could well be my next car.

It is the GT350 track spoiler, official Ford part, perfect fitment.

Car is lowered on the Ford FRPP dampers and Steeda linear ultralite springs, I've also done a lot more changes and put MPSS tyres on it, in short the handling is transformed from the stock car which was already not bad, but now its spot on.

[smithyithy]

Looks fantastic Gibbo! Do you have, or have you considered, the sequential indicator rear lights?

[Gibbo205]

sege said:

Lovely car. That does look fantastic. Subtle body kit all around?
What suspension is it running? I looks very low, but nice. Is the ride rock hard or manageable on the road?

I had a very brief drive of a V8 and I thought it was very nice. I'm a mild American car snob but this car converted me. I could very easily see myself using one as a daily driver (fuel bills allowing). Much nicer and more characterful then most modern whiteware type cars.

It is just side rockers and rear fins, RTR rocker kit, about £200 and it fits in the original factory positions just extending the original side skirts and make the car look lower than it.
Yes the car is lowered on FRPP dampers and Steeda linear springs. Ride quality is marginally firmer at low speeds, but improved at higher speeds, just glides and the floatyness and vagueness the stock car has is eliminated and the car handles a lot better, so ride quality overall is better with all additional benefits of sportier dampers and lowered suspension.

I drive mine daily, I have zero issues, my other car is a properly sorted E46 M3 converted to CSL and the Mustang out handles it on both road and track, it really is quite something and the car the Mustang replaced was a 911 C2S (997) and on the road the Mustang has more grip and nearly handles as well as the 911, but the 911 would still trump it, but on fast wide flowing tracks the Mustang is better than both the M3 and 911, the grip levels are just huge, bit mind boggling actually and must be because the Mustang is quite a bit wider car.