RE: Tesla announces P100D upgrades

[Dave Hedgehog]

Mike_C said:

A few inaccuracies in that article, I believe. Based on the industry standard 0-62mph / 0-100km/h times:

- The Tesla Model S P100D-L is THE fastest accelerating production car available to buy today

- The Tesla Model S P100D-L is THE fastest accelerating saloon car ever

- The Tesla Model X P100D-L is THE fastest accelerating SUV ever

- The Model S P100D-L is the third fastest production car of all time, beaten only by the Porsche 918 Spyder and Ferrari LaFerrari, but notably beating both the Bugatti Veyron and McLaren P1.

Now, I wonder if they'll fit that battery pack to my P85+??

Only over very short distances, they will be some of the slowest performance cars ever over the standing mile

[kambites]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Only over very short distances, they will be some of the slowest performance cars ever over the standing mile

Yeah it's obviously not got a particularly high top speed but as with other road cars, most will never be driven over about 100mph anyway. It's not like it's the sort of car you take to a track and only a tiny proportion of roads in a tiny proportion of countries are derestricted. I guess a few will find their way to a drag strip but it's probably pretty respectable over a quarter mile which is the usual benchmark.

It's only just over 7 seconds to 100, so it's not like it suddenly stops accelerating at 63mph.

[greygoose]

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Saw quite a few Model X on a recent US trip.

Awesome technology, but absolutely gopping.



Annoyingly, ive probably caught its best angle in that photo!

I didn't realise how like a Mustang they look.

[spikedjack]

greygoose said:

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Saw quite a few Model X on a recent US trip.

Awesome technology, but absolutely gopping.



Annoyingly, ive probably caught its best angle in that photo!

I didn't realise how like a Mustang they look.

[Mercury00]

I always wonder what the point is of these. It's not as if they've come up with an amazing new battery, they just put more AAs in the boot. The thing weighs over two tonnes for God's sake!

[OzzyR1]

Mercury00 said:

I always wonder what the point is of these. It's not as if they've come up with an amazing new battery, they just put more AAs in the boot. The thing weighs over two tonnes for God's sake!

People probably said "what's the point of this" when 10mph cars started to replace the horse.

E-cars aren't for me at the present but the tech is coming on in leaps and bounds, especially with Tesla putting the cat among the main ICE manufacturer's pigeons and it will be interesting to see where it leads.

Ironically, I would imagine it's the weight of the thing that allows it to put that sort of power down. From the photos I've seen the tyres aren't the same width as you normally see on cars that can do 0-60 in less than 3 secs.

[98elise]

Mercury00 said:

I always wonder what the point is of these. It's not as if they've come up with an amazing new battery, they just put more AAs in the boot. The thing weighs over two tonnes for God's sake!

So about the same weight as an ICE car of similar size?

The point is its relentless torque when you want it, and economy for the majority of the time when you don't want it.

[AdeTuono]

Mercury00 said:

I always wonder what the point is of these. It's not as if they've come up with an amazing new battery, they just put more AAs in the boot. The thing weighs over two tonnes for God's sake!

0-60 in <3 seconds, weighs over 2 tonnes, and you wonder what the point is?

Isn't that 'point' enough?

[NorthDave]

A client of ours who has a load of super / hyper cars (20 or 30 at least - Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche etc) reckons his model S is as fast over the British country roads as any of them. Huge amounts of torque which makes overtaking and making progress extremely easy. As I said I would have one in a heart beat given the chance.

Plus it appeals to the geek in me.

[peter450]

Mike_C said:

KTF said:

I don't know if they should be applauded for their honesty or if buyers wont be pleased to know that they are subsidising the cheaper models.

>100,000 Model S sold so far globally, and full order books for both Model S and Model X suggests people are quite happy to.

An impressive feat, but Tesla are trying to creat a brand new automotive brand from scratch and that's very hard and risky, electric vehicles are their niche but soon your going to get similar cars from established manufacturers.

It's not yet certain that Tesla can establish themselves as a viable player, the next few years will be crucial for them IMO

[fatboy b]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Mike_C said:

A few inaccuracies in that article, I believe. Based on the industry standard 0-62mph / 0-100km/h times:

- The Tesla Model S P100D-L is THE fastest accelerating production car available to buy today

- The Tesla Model S P100D-L is THE fastest accelerating saloon car ever

- The Tesla Model X P100D-L is THE fastest accelerating SUV ever

- The Model S P100D-L is the third fastest production car of all time, beaten only by the Porsche 918 Spyder and Ferrari LaFerrari, but notably beating both the Bugatti Veyron and McLaren P1.

Now, I wonder if they'll fit that battery pack to my P85+??

Only over very short distances, they will be some of the slowest performance cars ever over the standing mile

I'm just waiting for the inevitable collisions between these and the over 70 year old drivers who don't expect cars to be appearing so quickly in the space they just checked. But as I've said before, unless you're sponsored by Michelin, then the fast accleration is immaterial, as you're not going to be doing it all the time. Take that dubious selling point away, and these just don't make sense really unless you really think it is saving the planet.

[Miles Hardy]

It makes me angry just thinking about electric cars. Dya know what's more economical. Looking after a decent car for 30 or 40 years. That's probably a trillion times better for the planet than buying 15 new ones. Also, the deaths thing. Horrid. But you must be clinically insane to trust a computer with your life for starters? You can't trust the things to send a sodding email still without having a fit from time to time, letting it drive you at 70mph? You've gotta be mad. Ban them.

[405dogvan]

Traditionally, Tesla have made all their performance claims based on a car with 50% charge in the battery - but I'm not seeing that mentioned here?

This is important because things like outright acceleration are very much dependent on charge level - you'll go a lot faster on a fully-charged battery but that will fall-off a bit as you move toward half charge and then drop-off moreso thereafter.

This is partly down to how Lithium batteries work and partly to how the car manages them to maintain range and avoid damaging the cells.

It certainly has more effect on performance than the weight change as fuel is burned from tank, so we need to consider that here?

[ReaperCushions]

peter450 said:

Mike_C said:

KTF said:

I don't know if they should be applauded for their honesty or if buyers wont be pleased to know that they are subsidising the cheaper models.

>100,000 Model S sold so far globally, and full order books for both Model S and Model X suggests people are quite happy to.

An impressive feat, but Tesla are trying to creat a brand new automotive brand from scratch and that's very hard and risky, electric vehicles are their niche but soon your going to get similar cars from established manufacturers.

It's not yet certain that Tesla can establish themselves as a viable player, the next few years will be crucial for them IMO

I kinda feel Tesla are the automotive equivalent of Apple and the iPhone:

- Were not the first to produce an electric car, much like Apple were not the first to produce the first smart phone
- Both products are impressive technically, expensive and appeal to a tech savvy market
- Both have 'fan boi' type followings
- They inspire bigger manufacturers to join in and make better products (iPhone is typically behind Samsung devices for example)
- Market shifts to the new technology, inspired by the trendy (but expensive) leaders, but buy in to the mass market
- New technology has its draw backs (ironically on both products its battery related), but people put up with it for the benefits of the new technology
- Old technology still exists, but used in specific circumstances / use cases
- CEO is seen as visionary leader in the field and God like in the eyes
- I know a few Apple 'Fan Boi's who are also ordering Teslas of various models

Interesting comparisons on the mentality, culture and psychology of both businesses / products / buyers I think.


-

[kambites]

ReaperCushions said:

I kinda feel Tesla are the automotive equivalent of Apple and the iPhone:

I agree that they're currently fulfilling a similar role in the market, but I think there is a major difference in the aims of the company and hence the way it's being run. Apple's aim was always to make a profit selling its phones and as such was very insular and protectionist in its outlook, whereas Tesla doesn't seem to care one way or the other whether it makes a profit on its cars and has been very open with its technology - the whole project is essentially being run as a very expensive loss-leader.

[mybrainhurts]

kambites said:

ReaperCushions said:

I kinda feel Tesla are the automotive equivalent of Apple and the iPhone:

I agree that they're currently fulfilling a similar role in the market, but I think there is a major difference in the aims of the company and hence the way it's being run. Apple's aim was always to make a profit selling its phones and as such was very insular and protectionist in its outlook, whereas Tesla doesn't seem to care one way or the other whether it makes a profit on its cars and has been very open with its technology - the whole project is essentially being run as a very expensive loss-leader.

These funds are bottomless, are they?

[OwenK]

Miles Hardy said:

It makes me angry just thinking about electric cars. Dya know what's more economical. Looking after a decent car for 30 or 40 years. That's probably a trillion times better for the planet than buying 15 new ones. Also, the deaths thing. Horrid. But you must be clinically insane to trust a computer with your life for starters? You can't trust the things to send a sodding email still without having a fit from time to time, letting it drive you at 70mph? You've gotta be mad. Ban them.

Yes an old car is better for the planet than making a new one - but Teslas aren't competing with 10 year old Fiestas, are they? Tesla customers are generally dead set on buying a new car & normally it's going to be a similar expensive luxury saloon.

The deaths thing? You mean the incident where someone effectively turned on the glorified cruise control and then stopped paying attention which the car specifically tells you NOT to do? And then the car crashed? Gasp. It's the equivalent of crossing your legs when you engage your normal cruise control & then not being able to brake in time to prevent an accident.

[kambites]

mybrainhurts said:

These funds are bottomless, are they?

No, but Musk reckons they're deep enough to achieve that goal; especially when the battery factory opens properly and that side of the organisation moves into the black.

I don't think he gives a damn if he loses every penny that he's pumping into the car side of things as long as the market shifts far enough for him to make money selling his batteries.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 24th August 21:21

[OwenK]

mybrainhurts said:

These funds are bottomless, are they?

The benefits of being run essentially as a vanity project by a wealthy and benevolent dictator. You cannot argue that you'd have got anywhere near this sort of rapid sea change in the automotive industry without Musk and Tesla.

[405dogvan]

OwenK said:

mybrainhurts said:

These funds are bottomless, are they?

The benefits of being run essentially as a vanity project by a wealthy and benevolent dictator. You cannot argue that you'd have got anywhere near this sort of rapid sea change in the automotive industry without Musk and Tesla.

Tesla is NOT a vanity project by any means at all

A loaded Model S is well over £100K and they can sell every one they make - an exec car which looks like a Mazda, costs over £100K and sells - erm - vanity project? NO

The silly doors on the X may have cost them a year+ of work but they sell the car to the sort of people who like that st in a sector which is used to spending silly money on pointless nonsense - vanity project? NO

They ANNOUNCE a 'regular car' (that is announce, not actually release) and they have queues of people handing over actual money YEARS ahead of any cars being available - vanity project? NO

Tesla has pushed the electric car market forward for sure but it's not some sort of charity drive - it's a solid business/brand in a world where brand/customers are almost more valuable than the product itself...

All of that is funding their expansion in 'more regular' cars and it's all feeding into their battery business