Insurance - misleading pseudo-scams they use
Discussion
Hey guys
I was getting quotes for my cars this week, and I noticed something interesting. Although not directly a scam, I think some of the approaches are very misleading, to the point of being pseudo-scams.
At the moment my cars are all on an Admiral multicar policy, and I thought I would shop around. A few scammy observations:
- Multicar policies seem to be a con. We have three cars. An E46 M3, as a third car barely used with a 3000 mile or less limit, 5 years no claims, 35 years old in London, was £1.5k. I can get cheaper quotes directly on the car, so do not seem to benefit at all from having other cars with them? It seems multicar is just a word to capture more business that doesn't actually have any economic benefit.
- "Quoting for the rest of the year so it lines up with your other policy" is another slight con. I was quoted £500 for the M3, not bad. Oh, what, you mean just until the end of January. Can you tell me how much that is annually? "We don't quote annually". Do they thinks we don't have calculators?
- Adrian Flux I had high hopes for, but yet again, as every time I call them, and they're not the only ones... they asked me what the best quote I had got so far was, and offered £50-100 after running through the details. They ignore any online quotes because they "are not guaranteed"... yeah, but given they are 1/2 your price so I suspect even once executed it would be less
- The price comparison sites direct you to their partner/affiliate businesses rather than genuinely comparing the whole market. Again, not illegal, but just misleading
Am I on crazy pills?
I was getting quotes for my cars this week, and I noticed something interesting. Although not directly a scam, I think some of the approaches are very misleading, to the point of being pseudo-scams.
At the moment my cars are all on an Admiral multicar policy, and I thought I would shop around. A few scammy observations:
- Multicar policies seem to be a con. We have three cars. An E46 M3, as a third car barely used with a 3000 mile or less limit, 5 years no claims, 35 years old in London, was £1.5k. I can get cheaper quotes directly on the car, so do not seem to benefit at all from having other cars with them? It seems multicar is just a word to capture more business that doesn't actually have any economic benefit.
- "Quoting for the rest of the year so it lines up with your other policy" is another slight con. I was quoted £500 for the M3, not bad. Oh, what, you mean just until the end of January. Can you tell me how much that is annually? "We don't quote annually". Do they thinks we don't have calculators?
- Adrian Flux I had high hopes for, but yet again, as every time I call them, and they're not the only ones... they asked me what the best quote I had got so far was, and offered £50-100 after running through the details. They ignore any online quotes because they "are not guaranteed"... yeah, but given they are 1/2 your price so I suspect even once executed it would be less
- The price comparison sites direct you to their partner/affiliate businesses rather than genuinely comparing the whole market. Again, not illegal, but just misleading
Am I on crazy pills?
nope, you're sane, it's all a massive confidence trick.
"we'll save you (up to) £145.28 a year" pisses me off no end,
Multicar (with the nautical insurer) was indeed a rip off after year 1. Spent 6-8 years doing the renewal dance with them, lost interest eventually, took my policies elesewhere.
Now with classic line, it's not just "old" cars they do, I've got four cars with them now, from 2000, 2007, 2008 and 2011. Including the dull daily drivers.
I found them a tad more expensive that the cheapest policy I could find, but the level of cover is excellent, includes breakdown cover, I think track day for some of the cars not that I use it, agreed values, and all sorts of other stuff.
"we'll save you (up to) £145.28 a year" pisses me off no end,
Multicar (with the nautical insurer) was indeed a rip off after year 1. Spent 6-8 years doing the renewal dance with them, lost interest eventually, took my policies elesewhere.
Now with classic line, it's not just "old" cars they do, I've got four cars with them now, from 2000, 2007, 2008 and 2011. Including the dull daily drivers.
I found them a tad more expensive that the cheapest policy I could find, but the level of cover is excellent, includes breakdown cover, I think track day for some of the cars not that I use it, agreed values, and all sorts of other stuff.
Admiral seems hit and miss. I have multi-car with them and no one else can get near it. Possibly only works if you have the same drivers on each car? I do notice they give you the bare minimum cover, but that's all I can afford right now so I'm happy enough.
Flux made me nervous because they asked for so many things! Licence no, photocopy of licence, ID, blabla. I wonder would they find something wrong if you ever had an accident.
I don't know if you get AXA over there? They aren't the cheapest but not extortionate and include great cover as standard.
Flux made me nervous because they asked for so many things! Licence no, photocopy of licence, ID, blabla. I wonder would they find something wrong if you ever had an accident.
I don't know if you get AXA over there? They aren't the cheapest but not extortionate and include great cover as standard.
Setting a low annual mileage puts up the price significantly...here are my findings from a post I made a while ago...
The car is a 2001 Ford Fiesta Ghia 16V, 1242CC Petrol, 5DR, Manual
Notes:
Car value 100 = £2161
car value 500 = £1997
car value 700 = £1997
car value 1000 = £1997
Set Car value @ £500. Base quote price £1997.
Add tracking device = +£2632 /remove
Remove factory fitted non thatcham alarm/immobilizer = -£1921
New low price £1921*
Remove commuting entitlement. No change. Add back on.
Where car kept during the day.
Change from Home -> office/factory car park = +£1975. Home option is cheaper.
At night 'Street outside home' cheapest option = -£1921
Drop annual mileage from 10'000 to 8000 miles PA = -£1860 *new best price*
Drop mileage to 5000 miles PA = +£1738 /set back to 8000
Change additional named driver from Dad to Mum = -£1754 *new best price*
Change voluntary excess from £400 to £450 (setting higher makes no difference) = -£1661 *new best price*
Change from comprehensive to TPF&T -£1603 *new best price, but not worth loosing comp cover*
Change to TP only +£3714
Best possible price £1661 (saved £336 just by tweaking)
Summary:
Removing tracker and alarm/immobilizer drops price significantly ?!
Changing named driver from Dad to Mum drops price by ~£100
£450 is the best voluntary excess rate - changing to £400 raises quote by £100
Setting a cheaper car value raises quote (I can understand this - a cheap car may be driven without care).
The car is a 2001 Ford Fiesta Ghia 16V, 1242CC Petrol, 5DR, Manual
Notes:
Car value 100 = £2161
car value 500 = £1997
car value 700 = £1997
car value 1000 = £1997
Set Car value @ £500. Base quote price £1997.
Add tracking device = +£2632 /remove
Remove factory fitted non thatcham alarm/immobilizer = -£1921
New low price £1921*
Remove commuting entitlement. No change. Add back on.
Where car kept during the day.
Change from Home -> office/factory car park = +£1975. Home option is cheaper.
At night 'Street outside home' cheapest option = -£1921
Drop annual mileage from 10'000 to 8000 miles PA = -£1860 *new best price*
Drop mileage to 5000 miles PA = +£1738 /set back to 8000
Change additional named driver from Dad to Mum = -£1754 *new best price*
Change voluntary excess from £400 to £450 (setting higher makes no difference) = -£1661 *new best price*
Change from comprehensive to TPF&T -£1603 *new best price, but not worth loosing comp cover*
Change to TP only +£3714
Best possible price £1661 (saved £336 just by tweaking)
Summary:
Removing tracker and alarm/immobilizer drops price significantly ?!
Changing named driver from Dad to Mum drops price by ~£100
£450 is the best voluntary excess rate - changing to £400 raises quote by £100
Setting a cheaper car value raises quote (I can understand this - a cheap car may be driven without care).
People seem to have a different interpretation to the words "rip off" and "scam" to me.
If I go to buy something, and they quote me £1000, and I can get it for £500 elsewhere, that is not a rip off or a scam. It's just one supplier's price that another supplier can better. No one is holding a gun to my head, or forcing me into anything.
If they quoted £1000, and then took £1500 from my card, and refused to refund it, that would be a rip off!
If I go to buy something, and they quote me £1000, and I can get it for £500 elsewhere, that is not a rip off or a scam. It's just one supplier's price that another supplier can better. No one is holding a gun to my head, or forcing me into anything.
If they quoted £1000, and then took £1500 from my card, and refused to refund it, that would be a rip off!
TwigtheWonderkid said:
If I go to buy something, and they quote me £1000, and I can get it for £500 elsewhere, that is not a rip off or a scam. It's just one supplier's price that another supplier can better. No one is holding a gun to my head, or forcing me into anything.
And what if they had already claimed that they offered the best price, and that their super multi-car policy would save you money? Insurance companies are professional liars who have taken poor customer service and turned it into an art form.Multi car Insurance is a bit like getting gas and electricity from the same supplier. Changing supplier is a bit of a chore and in the case of insurance, people often leave things too late to shop around and just pay up for another year.
So if you can attract people to put all their cars into one policy, the hassle of unpicking that lot multiplies to the extent that people are even more likely to just pay up for another year. And those people are ripe for a little tickle on their premium.
So it's probably best to keep ducking and diving every year if you can be that organised.
So if you can attract people to put all their cars into one policy, the hassle of unpicking that lot multiplies to the extent that people are even more likely to just pay up for another year. And those people are ripe for a little tickle on their premium.
So it's probably best to keep ducking and diving every year if you can be that organised.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
People seem to have a different interpretation to the words "rip off" and "scam" to me.
If I go to buy something, and they quote me £1000, and I can get it for £500 elsewhere, that is not a rip off or a scam. It's just one supplier's price that another supplier can better. No one is holding a gun to my head, or forcing me into anything.
If they quoted £1000, and then took £1500 from my card, and refused to refund it, that would be a rip off!
I'd disagree. If the exact same thing is 200% dearer then where you can get it elsewhere than to me, that would definitely be a rip off.If I go to buy something, and they quote me £1000, and I can get it for £500 elsewhere, that is not a rip off or a scam. It's just one supplier's price that another supplier can better. No one is holding a gun to my head, or forcing me into anything.
If they quoted £1000, and then took £1500 from my card, and refused to refund it, that would be a rip off!
Quoting £1000 and taking £1500 from the card would be a scam.
However, seeing as its insurance we're talking about and odds are you aren't getting the exact same thing from different suppliers is unlikely and all of this is pedantry from me.
Mr2Mike said:
And what if they had already claimed that they offered the best price, and that their super multi-car policy would save you money? Insurance companies are professional liars who have taken poor customer service and turned it into an art form.
If you're naive enough to believe any advert that says it offers the "best" or "lowest" price, then you deserve all the disappointment you get.Like any service industry, insurance is a race to the bottom for a largely commoditised product. If you want a good deal/experience and have anything other than a double-digit IQ, you do your homework and shop around.
I can't really believe I had to type that...
Nemo Sum said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
People seem to have a different interpretation to the words "rip off" and "scam" to me.
If I go to buy something, and they quote me £1000, and I can get it for £500 elsewhere, that is not a rip off or a scam. It's just one supplier's price that another supplier can better. No one is holding a gun to my head, or forcing me into anything.
If they quoted £1000, and then took £1500 from my card, and refused to refund it, that would be a rip off!
I'd disagree. If the exact same thing is 200% dearer then where you can get it elsewhere than to me, that would definitely be a rip off.If I go to buy something, and they quote me £1000, and I can get it for £500 elsewhere, that is not a rip off or a scam. It's just one supplier's price that another supplier can better. No one is holding a gun to my head, or forcing me into anything.
If they quoted £1000, and then took £1500 from my card, and refused to refund it, that would be a rip off!
One insurer might be after certain business, and may be competitive for that and uncompetitive for a different type of customer. It's just business. I don't know why people get so upset that they got their insurance for £500 when someone else quoted them £2K. So what, you never paid the £2K so you weren't ripped off.
I agree that they can do this, I would just expect better, and look forward to big Insurance companies getting crushed by fintech and innovation.
They have incredible big data at their fingertips to drive the best outcome for the customer that also works for them, but continue to exploit it to maximise profit.
As an example, I told Admiral that all three cars are barely driven - none more than another. My no claims is used against a Prius. Applying it to the M3 instead brings the total premiums down by £500. The risk to them is the same, they just go from superprofit on my accounts to regular profit.
Why should they do that?
If they told me this without my having to ask I'd be happy and a loyal customer. As I had to find out myself, I am looking to leave.
They have incredible big data at their fingertips to drive the best outcome for the customer that also works for them, but continue to exploit it to maximise profit.
As an example, I told Admiral that all three cars are barely driven - none more than another. My no claims is used against a Prius. Applying it to the M3 instead brings the total premiums down by £500. The risk to them is the same, they just go from superprofit on my accounts to regular profit.
Why should they do that?
If they told me this without my having to ask I'd be happy and a loyal customer. As I had to find out myself, I am looking to leave.
ImABitLongCars said:
I agree that they can do this, I would just expect better, and look forward to big Insurance companies getting crushed by fintech and innovation.
They have incredible big data at their fingertips to drive the best outcome for the customer that also works for them, but continue to exploit it to maximise profit.
Simple. Because to leverage the value in that data would take time, expertise and investment - something that mainstream FS businesses are allergic to because they expect to post good profits and pay their shareholders.They have incredible big data at their fingertips to drive the best outcome for the customer that also works for them, but continue to exploit it to maximise profit.
While the ship is turning slowly, I agree that the advent of smarter providers and solutions will be the iceberg for some of the bigger names in the industry.
veccy208 said:
Admiral seems hit and miss. I have multi-car with them and no one else can get near it. Possibly only works if you have the same drivers on each car?
I have two cars on Admiral Multicar with only me insured and the premium was far lower than buying separate policies for each with any insurer, so I think it must be a factor that helps.C70R said:
If you're naive enough to believe any advert that says it offers the "best" or "lowest" price, then you deserve all the disappointment you get.
Like any service industry, insurance is a race to the bottom for a largely commoditised product. If you want a good deal/experience and have anything other than a double-digit IQ, you do your homework and shop around.
I can't really believe I had to type that...
In summary you believe companies are permitted to lie to gain your custom, and this is this perfectly acceptable behaviour that should not be questioned and is definitely not ripping off the consumer?Like any service industry, insurance is a race to the bottom for a largely commoditised product. If you want a good deal/experience and have anything other than a double-digit IQ, you do your homework and shop around.
I can't really believe I had to type that...
My Insurance quotations blew my mind when I was searching in March.
To give some background:
Car is a brand new Golf R.
26 years of age - male
6 years on license (clean)
5 years no claims
1 accident - at fault, no claim 4 years ago - now not counted on insurance as it's past the limitation (3 years) with my chosen insurer.
£400 excess
Fully Comp, 10k p/a FULL BUSINESS USE - parked off road.
Also on policy is:
24 years of age - female
9 months on license (clean)
0 no claims
0 accidents
South London / Surrey border postcodes.
Cost of policy at parents house is £690.
Cost of policy at my house is £1300.
Addresses are less than 2 miles away in the same town.
Swap the policy to park on the street.
Cost of policy at parents house is £750.
Cost of policy at my house is £1100.
Cheaper to park on street as car is not directly linked to a property. Phone insurers to ask what happens if it's parked off road in an unmarked bay that doesn't correspond to a house number. That's fine price will stay as quoted but is only valid if I park it where I declare, as it's going to be off road price is £1300.
Ask another question. How much would it be if everything was registered to my parents house but the car was parked 'away from home' permanently. Phone agent scurries away to speak with managers, higher ups, comes back 10 minutes later and says that would cost an extra £37 a year sir. You sure? Yes sir. Ok. Thanks. Hang up.
Great! Drivers license is registered to parents place to match bank accounts and passports etc... as we're only renting and this isn't permanent. Plus my business is at parents so saves confusion. No need to change anything to my new house.
Put the policy back to parents address, register car to parents place on V5. Put policy to park off road at parents place (drive way). Click on proceed with quote. Call insurer with ID reference. Confirm details. Right at the end tell them that everything is perfect but you'd like to notify them the car will be parked away from home and the address is X. Insurer says thats fine, £37 extra. I ask them to make sure it's all written on the policy document. They send through, I check, I pay.
I just got full insurance for the car to be parked at my house, off road, legally even though it's registered to my parents house for £727 instead of what it really should have been which was £1300.
HOW DOES THAT EVEN WORK?????
To give some background:
Car is a brand new Golf R.
26 years of age - male
6 years on license (clean)
5 years no claims
1 accident - at fault, no claim 4 years ago - now not counted on insurance as it's past the limitation (3 years) with my chosen insurer.
£400 excess
Fully Comp, 10k p/a FULL BUSINESS USE - parked off road.
Also on policy is:
24 years of age - female
9 months on license (clean)
0 no claims
0 accidents
South London / Surrey border postcodes.
Cost of policy at parents house is £690.
Cost of policy at my house is £1300.
Addresses are less than 2 miles away in the same town.
Swap the policy to park on the street.
Cost of policy at parents house is £750.
Cost of policy at my house is £1100.
Cheaper to park on street as car is not directly linked to a property. Phone insurers to ask what happens if it's parked off road in an unmarked bay that doesn't correspond to a house number. That's fine price will stay as quoted but is only valid if I park it where I declare, as it's going to be off road price is £1300.
Ask another question. How much would it be if everything was registered to my parents house but the car was parked 'away from home' permanently. Phone agent scurries away to speak with managers, higher ups, comes back 10 minutes later and says that would cost an extra £37 a year sir. You sure? Yes sir. Ok. Thanks. Hang up.
Great! Drivers license is registered to parents place to match bank accounts and passports etc... as we're only renting and this isn't permanent. Plus my business is at parents so saves confusion. No need to change anything to my new house.
Put the policy back to parents address, register car to parents place on V5. Put policy to park off road at parents place (drive way). Click on proceed with quote. Call insurer with ID reference. Confirm details. Right at the end tell them that everything is perfect but you'd like to notify them the car will be parked away from home and the address is X. Insurer says thats fine, £37 extra. I ask them to make sure it's all written on the policy document. They send through, I check, I pay.
I just got full insurance for the car to be parked at my house, off road, legally even though it's registered to my parents house for £727 instead of what it really should have been which was £1300.
HOW DOES THAT EVEN WORK?????
Edited by ashleyman on Friday 26th August 02:23
TwigtheWonderkid said:
People seem to have a different interpretation to the words "rip off" and "scam" to me.
If I go to buy something, and they quote me £1000, and I can get it for £500 elsewhere, that is not a rip off or a scam. It's just one supplier's price that another supplier can better. No one is holding a gun to my head, or forcing me into anything.
If they quoted £1000, and then took £1500 from my card, and refused to refund it, that would be a rip off!
However if they took £1000 for an 'insurance' payment then spend 10x that wiggling out of a payout then that would be a scam? If I go to buy something, and they quote me £1000, and I can get it for £500 elsewhere, that is not a rip off or a scam. It's just one supplier's price that another supplier can better. No one is holding a gun to my head, or forcing me into anything.
If they quoted £1000, and then took £1500 from my card, and refused to refund it, that would be a rip off!
Mr2Mike said:
C70R said:
If you're naive enough to believe any advert that says it offers the "best" or "lowest" price, then you deserve all the disappointment you get.
Like any service industry, insurance is a race to the bottom for a largely commoditised product. If you want a good deal/experience and have anything other than a double-digit IQ, you do your homework and shop around.
I can't really believe I had to type that...
In summary you believe companies are permitted to lie to gain your custom, and this is this perfectly acceptable behaviour that should not be questioned and is definitely not ripping off the consumer?Like any service industry, insurance is a race to the bottom for a largely commoditised product. If you want a good deal/experience and have anything other than a double-digit IQ, you do your homework and shop around.
I can't really believe I had to type that...
Mr2Mike said:
C70R said:
If you're naive enough to believe any advert that says it offers the "best" or "lowest" price, then you deserve all the disappointment you get.
Like any service industry, insurance is a race to the bottom for a largely commoditised product. If you want a good deal/experience and have anything other than a double-digit IQ, you do your homework and shop around.
I can't really believe I had to type that...
In summary you believe companies are permitted to lie to gain your custom, and this is this perfectly acceptable behaviour that should not be questioned and is definitely not ripping off the consumer?Like any service industry, insurance is a race to the bottom for a largely commoditised product. If you want a good deal/experience and have anything other than a double-digit IQ, you do your homework and shop around.
I can't really believe I had to type that...
Other examples include:
Save pounds (you'll need to before you can afford it)
Gigantic scoop (fits most bulldozers)
Up to 50% off (50% off 1 item, 1% off everything else)
And Red Bull doesn't give you wings.
It's advertising to lure you in.
The deal advertised has small print that won't apply.
Look at car lease deals, holidays, jobs with recruitment agencies even signs outside a pub offering 2 meals for £10.99.
No two people will ever go in that pub and eat then leave paying £10.99, it's a hook to lure you in then sell you something.
It's advertising to lure you in.
The deal advertised has small print that won't apply.
Look at car lease deals, holidays, jobs with recruitment agencies even signs outside a pub offering 2 meals for £10.99.
No two people will ever go in that pub and eat then leave paying £10.99, it's a hook to lure you in then sell you something.
I must be target customer for Admiral, they are the cheapest and I'm with them since 2012. At every renewal they were cheapest and I can't do anything about it. Adding second car to policy was very cheap, so I'm back to multi-policy with them. I hope it will stay the same next year. Comparison websites are useless to me, as they quote me some crazy prices and there's nothing wrong with my post code, NCD or driving licence. Must be my cars.
BTW, Admiral asked me where I keep my car, I said 50/50 garage/driveway as I have two cars and one will always be in a garage. So they said they will use driveway as it will be more risk. So now, according to documents, I have two cars parked on single driveway. Unfortunately can't park on a street, I know it would be even cheaper.
BTW, Admiral asked me where I keep my car, I said 50/50 garage/driveway as I have two cars and one will always be in a garage. So they said they will use driveway as it will be more risk. So now, according to documents, I have two cars parked on single driveway. Unfortunately can't park on a street, I know it would be even cheaper.
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