Cars types or manufacturers you would never purchase.

[anonymous-user]

av185 said:

Tragic indeed.

Interesting how someone who has an 'Aldi' on the drive to compare with all the other 'Aldis' on the Barratt estate seriously thinks they've 'made it'.:

The VAG marketing machine in terms of delusion over substance appears to be working well...

Aldi hilarity plus sneering Barratt estate reference = 10/10 for Partidge-esque pomposity

Good job for you that the horrible VAG marketing machine continues to feed the mouths at Porsche

[SWoll]

av185 said:

It would be interesting to learn exactly why some, including your learned self, rate Aldi , sorry Audi : above the likes of say Ford, Vauxhall et al......apart from possible delusions over the badge thing....and superiority...

As yet, no one has offered a plausible explanation...from a PH perspective at least.

I will start by saying that I haven't owned an Audi in almost 20 years as for me there are alternatives available in the price range that suit my requirements better (BMW predominantly but have had the occasional Mercedes + currently have an XF on order).

I have on a number of occasions had reason to drive Audi's over the years though (A4, A5, A6) as well as cars from the Vauxhall and Ford Stable.

Vauxhall - dreadful cars that seem to have been made by an accountant with no interest in driving. Bad engines, ride, build quality and interiors. Not a patch on the equivalently sized Audi in any way as far as I am concerned and far worse than the price gap would suggest.

Ford - much better than Vauxhall but the quality of the materials used, especially inside, is still well behind Audi and they do feel less solidly put together. They're also less refined and come with less kit/technology as standard IME. I would say that the actual driving experience is probably better in the Ford though, at least from an enjoyment point of view, which is one of the reasons for not choosing an Audi myself. This probably isn't as important to a lot of drivers as my previous points though.

Don't care about badges and image personally, just the product itself. I'm sure plenty do but just because that is the case it doesn't detract from the quality of the product.

If people want to aspire to Audi ownership then good for them. It's a personal view and not something I have an right to deride.

[J4CKO]

My problem is not that I am after a specific badge it is just that the lower end names tend not to produce V8 barges or other interesting concoctions, Nissan is the main one that bucks the trend with the GTR, Ford also produce some petrolhead vehicles like the Mustang, Focus RS and Fiesta ST but as a rule, anything non "premium" tends to top out with Hot Hatches like Renault.

So, the only reason I dont buy a Kia, Citroen, Peugeot, Volvo, Vauxhall, Toyota, Mazda is they have not really made anything I fancy, not that I am remotely bothered about the badge, my last four cars have been Saab, Porsche, Nissan, Mercedes and if anythign the "posh" brands make me squirm a bit, when anyone says what car do you drive and you say "A Porsche", anyone with a bit of self awareness should shudder a little at the sound of that.

So I bought a Mercedes because it was seven grand, immaculate and a lovely drive with loads of kit, if it was a Hyundai I wouldnt be bothered but they dont make anything like that, or at least they dont flog it in the UK and it is probably soporific anyway.

My missus is the worst for this, went to boarding school, had a pony as a kid, flew all round the world, lived in a fantastic house with a pool yet wouldnt be seen dead in a Merc even if someone gave her one, which they did, a three year old ML320 her dad gave her, she flogged it and bough a VW Sharan, wasnt just the image, there were other reasons but that was a big part of it, wouldn't be seen dead in a Range Rover, I call her "comrade J4CKO", she likes Fords.

[so called]

Peugeot is a no for me.
Past experience.
Made the mistake of calling Peugeot UK and ask for advice on making a claim under warrantee.

Never been spoken to by anyone like that before or since.

Drove Audi's through the 90's but no longer a fan of VAG but thats mainly down to todays styling.

[J4CKO]

so called said:

Peugeot is a no for me.
Past experience.
Made the mistake of calling Peugeot UK and ask for advice on making a claim under warrantee.

Never been spoken to by anyone like that before or since.

At least that is a rational aversion.

[SWoll]

Indeed. I find it sad that people are probably very often excluding themselves from owning a product that could well be perfect for them just because of some daft stereotype or what other even more shallow people may think. Far sadder than someone who aspires to owning something IMHO anyway.

[av185]

SWoll said:

av185 said:

It would be interesting to learn exactly why some, including your learned self, rate Aldi , sorry Audi : above the likes of say Ford, Vauxhall et al......apart from possible delusions over the badge thing....and superiority...

As yet, no one has offered a plausible explanation...from a PH perspective at least.

I have on a number of occasions had reason to drive Audi's over the years though (A4, A5, A6) as well as cars from the Vauxhall and Ford Stable.

Vauxhall - dreadful cars that seem to have been made by an accountant with no interest in driving. Bad engines, ride, build quality and interiors. Not a patch on the equivalently sized Audi in any way as far as I am concerned and far worse than the price gap would suggest.



Don't care about badges and image personally, just the product itself.

If people want to aspire to Audi ownership then good for them. It's a personal view and not something I have an right to deride.

As others have said, it is interesting that Vauxhall is receiving a fair bashing and imo unfairly.....and I am genuinely interested as to why in view of the qualities of the new Astra......as confirmed by quality journos it is class leading in many respects and imo streets ahead of the equivalent over priced Audi which from a drivers perspective suffers from a detached driving experience....the usual Audi vague and inert steering, poor weight distribution and over servoed brakes.

Despite many claiming they have no interest in badges and image, this is clearly a case of people not wanting to live with the Vauxhall badge with its Chav connotations v the Audi badge with its delusional superiority perhaps.....:

Edited by av185 on Thursday 1st September 14:34

[SWoll]

av185 said:

SWoll said:

av185 said:

It would be interesting to learn exactly why some, including your learned self, rate Aldi , sorry Audi : above the likes of say Ford, Vauxhall et al......apart from possible delusions over the badge thing....and superiority...

As yet, no one has offered a plausible explanation...from a PH perspective at least.

I have on a number of occasions had reason to drive Audi's over the years though (A4, A5, A6) as well as cars from the Vauxhall and Ford Stable.

Vauxhall - dreadful cars that seem to have been made by an accountant with no interest in driving. Bad engines, ride, build quality and interiors. Not a patch on the equivalently sized Audi in any way as far as I am concerned and far worse than the price gap would suggest.



Don't care about badges and image personally, just the product itself.

If people want to aspire to Audi ownership then good for them. It's a personal view and not something I have an right to deride.

As others have said, it is interesting that Vauxhall is receiving a fair bashing and imo unfairly.....and I am genuinely interested as to why in view of the qualities of the new Astra......as confirmed by quality journos it is class leading in many respects and imo streets ahead of the equivalent over priced Audi which from a drivers perspective suffers from a detached driving experience....the usual Audi vague and inert steering, poor weight distribution and over servoed brakes.

Clearly a case of people not wanting to live with the Vauxhall badge with its Chav connotations v the Audi badge with its delusional superiority perhaps.....:

As above, I have driven pretty much every generation of Astra, Vectra/Insignia over the last 10-15 years and they've all been ste IMHO. Not driven the latest Astra so won't comment until I do, but rarely read much into press reviews. Tthe fact is that when on my last company car list an Insignia 2.0 Diesel SRi costs more per month than an A6 or 5 Series to due to a ridiculous list price and st emissions it's hardly surprising people go for the more 'premium' brands.

Quite how you get to the conclusion you do about not wanting to live with a 'Chav' brand is beyond me TBH, and say a ot more about you than anyone else I'd say.

Your views all seem to be based on press reviews and TG stereotypes rather than actual experience, would that be accurate?

Edited by SWoll on Thursday 1st September 16:05

Edited by SWoll on Thursday 1st September 16:09

[J4CKO]

SWoll said:

av185 said:

SWoll said:

av185 said:

It would be interesting to learn exactly why some, including your learned self, rate Aldi , sorry Audi : above the likes of say Ford, Vauxhall et al......apart from possible delusions over the badge thing....and superiority...

As yet, no one has offered a plausible explanation...from a PH perspective at least.

I have on a number of occasions had reason to drive Audi's over the years though (A4, A5, A6) as well as cars from the Vauxhall and Ford Stable.

Vauxhall - dreadful cars that seem to have been made by an accountant with no interest in driving. Bad engines, ride, build quality and interiors. Not a patch on the equivalently sized Audi in any way as far as I am concerned and far worse than the price gap would suggest.



Don't care about badges and image personally, just the product itself.

If people want to aspire to Audi ownership then good for them. It's a personal view and not something I have an right to deride.

As others have said, it is interesting that Vauxhall is receiving a fair bashing and imo unfairly.....and I am genuinely interested as to why in view of the qualities of the new Astra......as confirmed by quality journos it is class leading in many respects and imo streets ahead of the equivalent over priced Audi which from a drivers perspective suffers from a detached driving experience....the usual Audi vague and inert steering, poor weight distribution and over servoed brakes.

Clearly a case of people not wanting to live with the Vauxhall badge with its Chav connotations v the Audi badge with its delusional superiority perhaps.....:

As above, I have driven pretty much every generation of Astra, Vectra/Insignia over the last 10-15 years and they've all been ste IMHO. Not driven the latest Astra so won't comment until I do, but rarely read much into press reviews. Tthe fact is that when on my last company car list an Insignia 2.0 Diesel SRi costs more per month than an A6 or 5 Series to due to a ridiculous list price and st emissions it's hardly surprising people go for the more 'premium' brands.

Quite how you get to the conclusion you do about not wanting to live with a 'Chav' brand is beyond me TBH, and say a ot more about you than anyone else I'd say.

Your views all seem to be based on press reviews and TG stereotypes rather than actual experience, would that be accurate?

Edited by SWoll on Thursday 1st September 16:05

Edited by SWoll on Thursday 1st September 16:09

Are they actually "ste" or is it the preconceptions that come with the badge ?

I am sure a lot of folk would turn their nose up at an Audi if it had a MG badge on it and say it was Crap, whether or not the actual car was fine, have driven an Insignia and to be honest it was fine, it did its job, I am sure a lot of it with cars and what people say about them is at least a little bit saying


"A mere Vauxhall is not worthy of my lofty status, I aspire to finer things, fine for the chavs but not me, oh no"

[SWoll]

J4CKO said:

Are they actually "ste" or is it the preconceptions that come with the badge ?

I am sure a lot of folk would turn their nose up at an Audi if it had a MG badge on it and say it was Crap, whether or not the actual car was fine, have driven an Insignia and to be honest it was fine, it did its job, I am sure a lot of it with cars and what people say about them is at least a little bit saying


"A mere Vauxhall is not worthy of my lofty status, I aspire to finer things, fine for the chavs but not me, oh no"

They're ste. Driven plenty, all been awful, many reasons given in this thread and none of them based on snobbery or preconceptions. Equivalent Ford far superior in all measurable ways and build quality and materials used in Audi/BMW are streets ahead. I see no reason to accept 'fine' when even a new Vauxhall is a serious financial investment for most owners.

As I said earlier, I totally agree that many turn their noses up based on the badge alone. Just because their reasoning is bks doesn't automatically mean their conclusion is also.

Edited by SWoll on Thursday 1st September 17:04

[S10GTA]

Bloke at work is looking for a new car and sent me a link to an 2006 89k BMW 1 series for 3900 and asked what I thought. I couldn't quite believe it was 3100 more than the 2006 92k C4 we'd just picked up for 800.

It's amazing what a badge does to people.

[av185]

J4CKO said:

Are they actually "ste" or is it the preconceptions that come with the badge ?

I am sure a lot of folk would turn their nose up at an Audi if it had a MG badge on it and say it was Crap, whether or not the actual car was fine, have driven an Insignia and to be honest it was fine, it did its job, I am sure a lot of it with cars and what people say about them is at least a little bit saying


"A mere Vauxhall is not worthy of my lofty status, I aspire to finer things, fine for the chavs but not me, oh no"

Good point..........but we still haven't heard from those deriding Vauxhall as to WHY they say they are so st from a PH perspective. ( I still maintain that an A4 3 series C class whatever (yes once 'premium brand' but now white goods due to ubiquity and ease of finance etc etc) tdi does no more than the equivalent Ford Vauxhall Citroen Renault whatever....apart from apparantly impressing the neighbours who probably have the same kind of car anyway.)

Yep, definitely a lot of badge snobbery out there.

[SWoll]

Not sure how many times I can re-iterate. Driven lots of Vauxhalls, from lowly diesel Corsa's to V6 Engined GSi and SRi models.

Diesel engines are noisy, utterly unrefined and somehow seem to lack torque (bad mapping?).
V6 engines feel breathless and unwilling to rev at the top end.
Gearboxes are universally bad, either sloppy and like stirring porridge or in the case of a V6 GSi I drove far too notchy and heavy.
Steering is either too light and lacking in feel or artificially heavy in order to try and fool you that there is some.
Lower models handle and ride average at best, high performance models suffer with axle tramp and excessive wheelspin.

Add to all of this the poor quality and badly designed interiors and you've basically just got bad cars in my experience.

I've got absolutely no reason to dislike Vauxhall as a brand as the whole snobbery thing doesn't register with me TBH. All I can do is comment from actual experience. I'd be interested in your opinion on them as haven't seen anything based on experience yet, just magazine reviews of the latest model and bloke down the pub comments.

[FGB]

I've had an Astra GTE, Calibra, Vectra, Astra VXR.

The build quality on all of them has at best been complete ste.

Compared with Audi / BMW and even ford they would seem more like a cheap eastern european manufactured pile of junk.

Both Astras and the Calibra were mainly purchased for their looks and cheapness (relative) - the Vectra was a company car.

The depreciation on the VXR was possibly the worst I've experienced.

Don't think I'll be back in a Vauxhall any time soon.

The one Marque I will definitely never own is VW - due to two really bad experiences (15 years apart) with numpty sales guys !

[FGB]

The wife had a Mokka - after 8 months it was whining about how the oil was fked and had to take it in to get it replaced.

something to do with failed regeneration - Dumped the car after a year when the Mini garage foolishly agreed to take it off our hands - reckon they would have lost a fortune on it.

She's much happier in the Mini Coupe

[SWoll]

S10GTA said:

Bloke at work is looking for a new car and sent me a link to an 2006 89k BMW 1 series for 3900 and asked what I thought. I couldn't quite believe it was 3100 more than the 2006 92k C4 we'd just picked up for 800.

It's amazing what a badge does to people.

The badge plays it's part of course but you are over simplifying You've not given us the models in question so difficult to compare, the BMW will be far better built and engineered, better to drive and likely last a lot longer also.

Just have a look at how many Citroens are still on the road at to 10-15 years old or with big mileages as compared to BMW's.

[cptsideways]

I work in the automotive industry, I'm not brand specific but there are some very simple things that would stop me wanting any car

God damn awful touch screens, twiddly knobs acceptable just. So Mazda, Audi & BMW ok on this front, but BMW's insistence on the nav zoom being back to front winds me up no end so they are out.

Touchscreens that don't dim at night - Renault!!!

Multiple bongs for the sake of it

Headlights that don't turn themselves off with the key & not auto lights has to be headlights. So Fiat group acceptable currently on this front.

Ride has to be good, which counts out most manufacturers, only a very few cars with a proper ride.

SUV's with boots too high for dogs, thats all of them

Heater controls without rotary knobs, I do not want to press a button 10 times to change the temp, let alone a ****ing touchscreen



So all I want is a comfy ride, three knob heater controls, lights that go off with ignition not a ****ing bong & an android updateable nav screen if it has to have one that dims at night with a rotory controller.


I've not found one yet

[Jim AK]

SWoll said:

The badge plays it's part of course but you are over simplifying You've not given us the models in question so difficult to compare, the BMW will be far better built and engineered, better to drive and likely last a lot longer also.

Just have a look at how many Citroens are still on the road at to 10-15 years old or with big mileages as compared to BMW's.

Sold my last Xantia in 2013 with over 192000 up. Really wanted to see 200000.......... If only i`d bought a 1 Series (See my earlier post in thread)

[Moonpie21]

Just my 2 pence on Vauxhall etc...

I had a VX220 and loved every second of it. I preferred the design and thought it was leagues ahead of my friends S1 K series Elise. Ok it ate engine mounts but was largely bomb proof.

Most Fords. Vauxhalls etc are indestructible, yes, after a short amount of time things fall off or rattle but even after serious abuse they start all the time and work as machines.

Now, my opinion only of the ones that I have been in, the Audi, BMW etc equivalent does perceived quality much better. The uncluttered dash of an A3 vs a the busy dash of a Focus for example. Soft touch over hard plastic, damped roof handle things. Cars suit different desires and needs. I like mine to be useful and make ME feel good.

I think it's wrong to label brands premium, they are just better at understanding what a majority of people want.

I think I could want and dislike a car in every brand.

But to answer the question I would rather chew my own arm off than own a rover city rover.

[SWoll]

Jim AK said:

SWoll said:

The badge plays it's part of course but you are over simplifying You've not given us the models in question so difficult to compare, the BMW will be far better built and engineered, better to drive and likely last a lot longer also.

Just have a look at how many Citroens are still on the road at to 10-15 years old or with big mileages as compared to BMW's.

Sold my last Xantia in 2013 with over 192000 up. Really wanted to see 200000.......... If only i`d bought a 1 Series (See my earlier post in thread)

And your of the opinion your experience is a common one? By all means spend 5 minutes on autotrader and see if you're right, I have.