RE: BBR Mazda MX-5 Super 200: Review
Discussion
Typically British / PH "Man-thematical" understatement there!Dan,
How did you think the car felt on the upgraded arb's ? Did it add a degree of harshness in any way that you could detect ?
We collected our ND Super 200 on Saturday but compared to the one you tested we were on standard wheels, tyres & arb's, running virtually full soft on the koni's with just a 1/4 turn on the front dampers.
Initial observations are very good, particularly in respect of all BBR's work, a huge thanks to Neil & his team. We are currently limited to about 4k rpm (circa 140bhp) but the engine feels much better than I had imagined, responsive, eager to rev and sounds pretty good with the BBR exhaust mods, GT back box for us.
Design is subjective but the whole car is a stunning little package and appealed much more to me than a similarly priced used Boxter S, after 16 yrs of Caterham ownership we wanted something really small but more practical than a 7, it ticks those boxes 100%.
Interesting the car does not feel quite as small as it looks when on the road.
My daily hack is a RS265 Megane and if I had one criticism of the base car (not BBR's work) it's that Mazda's take on elec power steering is just not as good as Renaultsport, pity given other control weights and gear box are exceptional !! I wasn't expecting the steering to be as good as the 7, an Elise or a good hydraulic systems but Renaultsport have proved (IMHO of course) that elec systems can still be really good - I think there is some room for improvement here Mazda, just a tad more weight would do wonders.
Finally I'm 6ft with long ish legs and I have the seat set full back, fits me like a glove.
Cheers,
Simon
How did you think the car felt on the upgraded arb's ? Did it add a degree of harshness in any way that you could detect ?
We collected our ND Super 200 on Saturday but compared to the one you tested we were on standard wheels, tyres & arb's, running virtually full soft on the koni's with just a 1/4 turn on the front dampers.
Initial observations are very good, particularly in respect of all BBR's work, a huge thanks to Neil & his team. We are currently limited to about 4k rpm (circa 140bhp) but the engine feels much better than I had imagined, responsive, eager to rev and sounds pretty good with the BBR exhaust mods, GT back box for us.
Design is subjective but the whole car is a stunning little package and appealed much more to me than a similarly priced used Boxter S, after 16 yrs of Caterham ownership we wanted something really small but more practical than a 7, it ticks those boxes 100%.
Interesting the car does not feel quite as small as it looks when on the road.
My daily hack is a RS265 Megane and if I had one criticism of the base car (not BBR's work) it's that Mazda's take on elec power steering is just not as good as Renaultsport, pity given other control weights and gear box are exceptional !! I wasn't expecting the steering to be as good as the 7, an Elise or a good hydraulic systems but Renaultsport have proved (IMHO of course) that elec systems can still be really good - I think there is some room for improvement here Mazda, just a tad more weight would do wonders.
Finally I'm 6ft with long ish legs and I have the seat set full back, fits me like a glove.
Cheers,
Simon
Simon Owen said:
Dan,
We collected our ND Super 200 on Saturday but compared to the one you tested we were on standard wheels, tyres & arb's, running virtually full soft on the koni's with just a 1/4 turn on the front dampers.
Was yours the freshly delivered white one waiting in the car park with the nice plates? We collected our ND Super 200 on Saturday but compared to the one you tested we were on standard wheels, tyres & arb's, running virtually full soft on the koni's with just a 1/4 turn on the front dampers.
Either way bravo on your purchase/upgrade and I bet you are counting the miles until you can properly let rip. As for the ARBs I'm afraid I can't comment really as I haven't driven BBR's demonstrator without them. Certainly didn't feel harsh though; it's been a little while since I've been in a stock 2.0 with the Sport Bilstein set-up but I remember thinking it was a little bouncy in primary ride and rather brittle in secondary. The demo car didn't seem to be sending the same shudders through the body you get on the stock car and was both pliant and more controlled so I don't think you lose much in the comfort stakes. I guess the lighter wheels and the unsprung weight taken off by the brake calipers will all have helped too. Overall it just felt like a very resolved package for both the engine and the chassis mods.
Interesting reading your comments on the steering too. Again, the demo car seemed to have a little more weight and 'authority' to the wheel that I rather liked. Not sure whether that was the suspension set-up, the ARBs or perhaps the stiffer sidewalls of the Cup 2 tyres. Certainly I've noticed improved turn-in on cars - like the Megane - when fitted with Cup 2s over 'normal' rubber. To be fair though I don't think any MX-5 has ever had spectacularly good steering feel - certainly my PAS NA Eunos isn't a beacon of feedback and nor have any of the NCs I've driven. They're all 'OK' but I don't think it's ever been a stand-out feature like, say, the gearshift or throttle response.
Enjoy your car!
Dan
Edited by Dan Trent on Monday 12th September 14:51
Simon Owen said:
Dan,
How did you think the car felt on the upgraded arb's ? Did it add a degree of harshness in any way that you could detect ?
We collected our ND Super 200 on Saturday but compared to the one you tested we were on standard wheels, tyres & arb's, running virtually full soft on the koni's with just a 1/4 turn on the front dampers.
Initial observations are very good, particularly in respect of all BBR's work, a huge thanks to Neil & his team. We are currently limited to about 4k rpm (circa 140bhp) but the engine feels much better than I had imagined, responsive, eager to rev and sounds pretty good with the BBR exhaust mods, GT back box for us.
Design is subjective but the whole car is a stunning little package and appealed much more to me than a similarly priced used Boxter S, after 16 yrs of Caterham ownership we wanted something really small but more practical than a 7, it ticks those boxes 100%.
Interesting the car does not feel quite as small as it looks when on the road.
My daily hack is a RS265 Megane and if I had one criticism of the base car (not BBR's work) it's that Mazda's take on elec power steering is just not as good as Renaultsport, pity given other control weights and gear box are exceptional !! I wasn't expecting the steering to be as good as the 7, an Elise or a good hydraulic systems but Renaultsport have proved (IMHO of course) that elec systems can still be really good - I think there is some room for improvement here Mazda, just a tad more weight would do wonders.
Finally I'm 6ft with long ish legs and I have the seat set full back, fits me like a glove.
Cheers,
Simon
Love your number plate, a man after my own heart! How did you think the car felt on the upgraded arb's ? Did it add a degree of harshness in any way that you could detect ?
We collected our ND Super 200 on Saturday but compared to the one you tested we were on standard wheels, tyres & arb's, running virtually full soft on the koni's with just a 1/4 turn on the front dampers.
Initial observations are very good, particularly in respect of all BBR's work, a huge thanks to Neil & his team. We are currently limited to about 4k rpm (circa 140bhp) but the engine feels much better than I had imagined, responsive, eager to rev and sounds pretty good with the BBR exhaust mods, GT back box for us.
Design is subjective but the whole car is a stunning little package and appealed much more to me than a similarly priced used Boxter S, after 16 yrs of Caterham ownership we wanted something really small but more practical than a 7, it ticks those boxes 100%.
Interesting the car does not feel quite as small as it looks when on the road.
My daily hack is a RS265 Megane and if I had one criticism of the base car (not BBR's work) it's that Mazda's take on elec power steering is just not as good as Renaultsport, pity given other control weights and gear box are exceptional !! I wasn't expecting the steering to be as good as the 7, an Elise or a good hydraulic systems but Renaultsport have proved (IMHO of course) that elec systems can still be really good - I think there is some room for improvement here Mazda, just a tad more weight would do wonders.
Finally I'm 6ft with long ish legs and I have the seat set full back, fits me like a glove.
Cheers,
Simon
Price walk's a little steep for the moment for me so I think I'll hold out until the new year and do it then (or assess V the turbo which will be out by then as well.
The 190's a great little package but I'm pretty green that you've gone the full 200! Neil quoted me c210BHP if I went for it based on the mods I already have on. That's pretty compelling! Also - I'm sure he told you but 98/99 ron all the way!
Yes that was our car Dan, and yes running in is driving me mad !!
Sounds like incremental improvements to me .. lighter wheels, lighter brakes, higher performance tyres & stiffer arb's which when combined make a noticeable difference to ride & handling ?
It was the 'package' that appealed to us rather than seeking the ultimate driving experience in this instance so I can live with the light steering, just an observation really as for those used to 'stand out' systems it may be a little disappointing that's all.
Pre-purchase I was a little concerned about it feeling slow after the 7 & RS .... even having only used 140bhp so far I'm absolutely convinced this will not be an issue, Neil at BBR has done a fab job with the engine.
Sounds like incremental improvements to me .. lighter wheels, lighter brakes, higher performance tyres & stiffer arb's which when combined make a noticeable difference to ride & handling ?
It was the 'package' that appealed to us rather than seeking the ultimate driving experience in this instance so I can live with the light steering, just an observation really as for those used to 'stand out' systems it may be a little disappointing that's all.
Pre-purchase I was a little concerned about it feeling slow after the 7 & RS .... even having only used 140bhp so far I'm absolutely convinced this will not be an issue, Neil at BBR has done a fab job with the engine.
Diesel Meister said:
SPS said:
30K for an MX5 - way too rich.
I love em for their purity of handling etc but still a lot of dosh.
Boxster S anyone?
Yes it will be 3 to 4 years old but.......
I get you, but there's nothing else strictly comparable (i.e. a new car) if you don't want an FI, FWD hatch (or a Focus RS) for between £25-35k these days.I love em for their purity of handling etc but still a lot of dosh.
Boxster S anyone?
Yes it will be 3 to 4 years old but.......
Plus you don't have to do it all at once. I think it's compelling, even though I prefer more cylinders ideally.
Loving the looks of the ND. Yes. I'd find it more tempting is this was the factory spec for £25k (or better) all-in. But it's still an appealing package, not least as an antidote to the turbo-charged, power-crazed nature of performance motoring these days.
I have not had a turbo weekend fun car for many years, In fact the last one was a Supra Twin Turbo which was so bloody boring I got rid after a few months. Don't get me wrong a very well sorted machine but it totally lacked character and involvement.
I actually bought a 2002 face lift MX5 for one of my sons and his wife and it's a little peach to drive with very low miles too, so I am a fan - it's just the price tbh.
spikyone said:
re33 said:
Sounds like great upgrade but saying they calibrated the dyno off a standard road car is basically admitting that it's not really 200bhp. I don't think it matters though, in the car it should still feel great.
That's not what the article says at all. What it actually says is that, on BBR's dyno, the cars achieve Mazda's claimed figures.threespires said:
SPS said:
30K for an MX5 - way too rich.
I love em for their purity of handling etc but still a lot of dosh.
Boxster S anyone?
Yes it will be 3 to 4 years old but.......
As has been said countless times on these pages, one cannot compare a new car to a used car at the same money. I love em for their purity of handling etc but still a lot of dosh.
Boxster S anyone?
Yes it will be 3 to 4 years old but.......
This BBR at c £30,000 compares to a new Audi TT or an Abarth 124 when they become available. For a PH type of driver I see no contest, the BBR has to be the choice.
The reality is that the Boxster is the best small roadster on the road - it's just that straight forward.
I would pay £30k (then you don't have 20% Vat and forecourt drive away depreciation) for a well cared for 3 year old S any day over a nice little sports car like the MX5.
Oh and no I don't have a Porsche - well not now as I drive a proper UK sports car
SPS said:
Well lets be honest many people "hate" the Porsche brand just because of the er, baggage that comes with the badge!
The reality is that the Boxster is the best small roadster on the road - it's just that straight forward.
I would pay £30k (then you don't have 20% Vat and forecourt drive away depreciation) for a well cared for 3 year old S any day over a nice little sports car like the MX5.
Oh and no I don't have a Porsche - well not now as I drive a proper UK sports car
Best small sportscar is a contest between Elise, mx5 and mr2. Bolster (that's iPhone not me!) is def mid sized. I'm a big fan, really, but it's not a small sportscar. It's a great one car does all. The reality is that the Boxster is the best small roadster on the road - it's just that straight forward.
I would pay £30k (then you don't have 20% Vat and forecourt drive away depreciation) for a well cared for 3 year old S any day over a nice little sports car like the MX5.
Oh and no I don't have a Porsche - well not now as I drive a proper UK sports car
Edited by CABC on Monday 12th September 19:03
elvismiggell said:
I'm pretty confident you'll get more in the MX-5's boot than the Elise. Not by a huge amount maybe, but enough.
That said, isn't the Elise still a fair bit lighter than the MX-5?
1.6 Elise is 876 kg.That said, isn't the Elise still a fair bit lighter than the MX-5?
So if 1.5 MX5 is 975 kg and 2.0 is 1000 kg the Elise is fair chunk lighter.
But considering the MX5 is a more mainstream car I think the weight is very good.
New or future second hand I'd rather have the MX5.
Sounds mad but I have had Elises's and really really enjoyed them. But the lower buying price of the Mazda, along with the cheaper servicing, maintenance and insurance is a big plus for me. Add the power and some suspension mods, as well as a hopefully more reliable and worry free car (I even worry about vandals having had an Elise keyed), and I'd be happy to have 80-90% of the Elise package with the benefits mentioned. Plus it would be road use only so the difference is minimised.
matpilch said:
Krikkit said:
Can't really see the obsession over the 1.5, 25kg is a 2.3% weight difference. For the extra power it's surely worth the effort?
It's not the weight difference, it's about that engine. Stock, the 1.5 is way more engaging, revs to 7.5k, sounds crispier and is an in general an utter joy. the 2.0 is more GTish in character I'd say.Edited by K2MDL on Monday 12th September 21:59
Simon Owen said:
Dan,
How did you think the car felt on the upgraded arb's ? Did it add a degree of harshness in any way that you could detect ?
We collected our ND Super 200 on Saturday but compared to the one you tested we were on standard wheels, tyres & arb's, running virtually full soft on the koni's with just a 1/4 turn on the front dampers.
Design is subjective but the whole car is a stunning little package and appealed much more to me than a similarly priced used Boxter S, after 16 yrs of Caterham ownership we wanted something really small but more practical than a 7, it ticks those boxes.
Two things, Simon. My ND Sports Recaro was on the bench next to yours on Friday. Even more spooky was my serial number plaque was one off yours!!!How did you think the car felt on the upgraded arb's ? Did it add a degree of harshness in any way that you could detect ?
We collected our ND Super 200 on Saturday but compared to the one you tested we were on standard wheels, tyres & arb's, running virtually full soft on the koni's with just a 1/4 turn on the front dampers.
Design is subjective but the whole car is a stunning little package and appealed much more to me than a similarly priced used Boxter S, after 16 yrs of Caterham ownership we wanted something really small but more practical than a 7, it ticks those boxes.
As for a used Boxter for the same money, my wife has a RS60 Spyder with 300Bhp on tap. Two totally different cars and non comparable. Both great but so different hers feels like I have climbed aboard a limo after getting out of my ND. I want small compact sports car not a luxo-sports mobile that is heavy and huge by comparison. I don't want the bills either. A new sports exhaust is a mere £5k for hers. Nuts.
K2MDL said:
Two things, Simon. My ND Sports Recaro was on the bench next to yours on Friday. Even more spooky was my serial number plaque was one off yours!!!
As for a used Boxter for the same money, my wife has a RS60 Spyder with 300Bhp on tap. Two totally different cars and non comparable. Both great but so different hers feels like I have climbed aboard a limo after getting out of my ND. I want small compact sports car not a luxo-sports mobile that is heavy and huge by comparison. I don't want the bills either. A new sports exhaust is a mere £5k for hers. Nuts.
Ha we did spot the build numbers.As for a used Boxter for the same money, my wife has a RS60 Spyder with 300Bhp on tap. Two totally different cars and non comparable. Both great but so different hers feels like I have climbed aboard a limo after getting out of my ND. I want small compact sports car not a luxo-sports mobile that is heavy and huge by comparison. I don't want the bills either. A new sports exhaust is a mere £5k for hers. Nuts.
Good choice !!
And yes totally agree with you, both brilliant cars but very very different ... as is the Elise !! all sports cars I know but just good at different things. Like you I wanted something smaller than the Boxter but not as impractical as the superlights.
ND is a hoot to drive and I'm only at 140bhp so far !!!!
( I bet you can get the roof up quicker than your good lady too !! )
Edited by Simon Owen on Monday 12th September 23:01
Leejay-B said:
elvismiggell said:
I'm pretty confident you'll get more in the MX-5's boot than the Elise. Not by a huge amount maybe, but enough.
That said, isn't the Elise still a fair bit lighter than the MX-5?
1.6 Elise is 876 kg.That said, isn't the Elise still a fair bit lighter than the MX-5?
So if 1.5 MX5 is 975 kg and 2.0 is 1000 kg the Elise is fair chunk lighter.
But considering the MX5 is a more mainstream car I think the weight is very good.
New or future second hand I'd rather have the MX5.
Sounds mad but I have had Elises's and really really enjoyed them. But the lower buying price of the Mazda, along with the cheaper servicing, maintenance and insurance is a big plus for me. Add the power and some suspension mods, as well as a hopefully more reliable and worry free car (I even worry about vandals having had an Elise keyed), and I'd be happy to have 80-90% of the Elise package with the benefits mentioned. Plus it would be road use only so the difference is minimised.
In 2 years time once the warranty is up, it'll be hard to resist taking it up to BBR to get some work done.
What a stumpy ugly little thing, all slashes, cuts & unnecessary mould lines in an attempt to make it all manly & aggressive.
Except for the equally stumpy Mk 4 the MX-5 was always unashamedly cute & cuddly & didn't try to be something it was not. Why spend silly money on the basic car or up-graded version when there are more grown up serious alternatives available at equal prices be they new or used.
Except for the equally stumpy Mk 4 the MX-5 was always unashamedly cute & cuddly & didn't try to be something it was not. Why spend silly money on the basic car or up-graded version when there are more grown up serious alternatives available at equal prices be they new or used.
WJNB said:
What a stumpy ugly little thing, all slashes, cuts & unnecessary mould lines in an attempt to make it all manly & aggressive.
Except for the equally stumpy Mk 4 the MX-5 was always unashamedly cute & cuddly & didn't try to be something it was not. Why spend silly money on the basic car or up-graded version when there are more grown up serious alternatives available at equal prices be they new or used.
Maybe we don't want to grow up Except for the equally stumpy Mk 4 the MX-5 was always unashamedly cute & cuddly & didn't try to be something it was not. Why spend silly money on the basic car or up-graded version when there are more grown up serious alternatives available at equal prices be they new or used.
WJNB said:
What a stumpy ugly little thing, all slashes, cuts & unnecessary mould lines in an attempt to make it all manly & aggressive.
Except for the equally stumpy Mk 4 the MX-5 was always unashamedly cute & cuddly & didn't try to be something it was not. Why spend silly money on the basic car or up-graded version when there are more grown up serious alternatives available at equal prices be they new or used.
Or maybe he just doesn't get how evolved the ND is over the NA without losing its original attributes. Visually the ND is a matter of personal choice. I too didn't like it at all when I first saw it but it grew on me, enough to buy. Each to his own. If we all liked the same thing the world would be a very boring place indeed. Except for the equally stumpy Mk 4 the MX-5 was always unashamedly cute & cuddly & didn't try to be something it was not. Why spend silly money on the basic car or up-graded version when there are more grown up serious alternatives available at equal prices be they new or used.
WJNB said:
What a stumpy ugly little thing, all slashes, cuts & unnecessary mould lines in an attempt to make it all manly & aggressive.
Except for the equally stumpy Mk 4 the MX-5 was always unashamedly cute & cuddly & didn't try to be something it was not. Why spend silly money on the basic car or up-graded version when there are more grown up serious alternatives available at equal prices be they new or used.
I'm interested to understand your view on the more grown up and serious alternatives that offer the same attributes as the Super 200 BBR ?Except for the equally stumpy Mk 4 the MX-5 was always unashamedly cute & cuddly & didn't try to be something it was not. Why spend silly money on the basic car or up-graded version when there are more grown up serious alternatives available at equal prices be they new or used.
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