RE: BMW M3: PH Carpool
Discussion
Great write up.
I would love to hear some more comments about the move from e46 to e92 as well. I'm mostly curious about the 'seat of the pants' experience with the e92 - does it feel significantly quicker than the e46? Could you elaborate on the reasons for your comment about choosing an e46 for a b-road blast? I am thinking of making the same transition in about a year's time, mostly so I can have a slightly more civilised drive when doing long distance trips. However, the b-road blast is one of my favourite aspects of driving my current e46. Obligatory picture below etc.
I would love to hear some more comments about the move from e46 to e92 as well. I'm mostly curious about the 'seat of the pants' experience with the e92 - does it feel significantly quicker than the e46? Could you elaborate on the reasons for your comment about choosing an e46 for a b-road blast? I am thinking of making the same transition in about a year's time, mostly so I can have a slightly more civilised drive when doing long distance trips. However, the b-road blast is one of my favourite aspects of driving my current e46. Obligatory picture below etc.
Love the write up, I too stepped out of a grey e46 into a white e92. Can't say I miss the anxiety of wondering what the rattles were every time I stepped into it. Loved the noise of the e46, the v8 though is on another level. Just need to save to add an akrikopvik like yours though, that's all it would need to top it off for me. To this guys^^ question I think the e92 seems miles faster! I seem to be having more fun in the e92 too (sideways) than I ever did in the e46. Maybe it was just the fear something would break in the old car who knows!
oliver1oo6 said:
Great write up.
I would love to hear some more comments about the move from e46 to e92 as well. I'm mostly curious about the 'seat of the pants' experience with the e92 - does it feel significantly quicker than the e46? Could you elaborate on the reasons for your comment about choosing an e46 for a b-road blast? I am thinking of making the same transition in about a year's time, mostly so I can have a slightly more civilised drive when doing long distance trips. However, the b-road blast is one of my favourite aspects of driving my current e46. Obligatory picture below etc.
It's not necessarily a fair comparison, as we're talking about a 12 year old standard car vs. what was barely a 3 year old car when I bought it. But the E92 just feels a bit more hooked up and a little more keen to do what I ask of it on track. I would love to hear some more comments about the move from e46 to e92 as well. I'm mostly curious about the 'seat of the pants' experience with the e92 - does it feel significantly quicker than the e46? Could you elaborate on the reasons for your comment about choosing an e46 for a b-road blast? I am thinking of making the same transition in about a year's time, mostly so I can have a slightly more civilised drive when doing long distance trips. However, the b-road blast is one of my favourite aspects of driving my current e46. Obligatory picture below etc.
The E92 definitely feels significantly faster, especially with the DCT box.
To quantify the b-road blast thing, I suppose in some ways the E92 almost feels a little too good, maybe too clinical and too fast to properly exploit on the road.
Where the E46 could still keep you on your toes miles away from it's slightly lower limits, the E92 by contrast just seems too planted so far away from it's limits that sometimes it can feel a little bit 'point and shoot' at sensible road speeds.
That said, I don't miss my E46 at all and many of the comparisons could probably be levelled up a bit on an E46 with some decent suspension and brakes, but things like the noise and being able to pop the car into auto and cruise for hundreds of effortless miles more than makes up for it.
johnwilliams77 said:
How much for break set up and suspension? Much change of 5k?!
To be honest, there wasn't much change left from double that, these certainly aren't the cheapest cars to modify!mpit said:
To be honest, there wasn't much change left from double that, these certainly aren't the cheapest cars to modify!
WowMakes running costs of an Evora seem very low
I can get a set of tyres for £500 and no need to modify suspension or brakes
But you have 4 usable seats (needed) and a v8. Evora sounds pretty good too...
Good article chap
There wasn't specifically any need to modify suspension, I suppose. There certainly wasn't any need to go as extreme as I did, but it makes all the difference on track - it's something that seems to be true of the Exige as well, so I'm sure there's still plenty to be gained from upgrading the suspension on any road car.
The Evora S was in contention when I originally bought this, but I just couldn't get to grips with how heavy it was for a lotus and wanted some more practical rear seats, as you alluded to.
What's funny is that when mine was corner weighted, it was around the 1520 mark - less than 100kg heavier than the book weight for an Evora S, that seems mental to me!
£500 a set of tyres would be nice, what are they and what size?
The Evora S was in contention when I originally bought this, but I just couldn't get to grips with how heavy it was for a lotus and wanted some more practical rear seats, as you alluded to.
What's funny is that when mine was corner weighted, it was around the 1520 mark - less than 100kg heavier than the book weight for an Evora S, that seems mental to me!
£500 a set of tyres would be nice, what are they and what size?
mpit said:
There wasn't specifically any need to modify suspension, I suppose. There certainly wasn't any need to go as extreme as I did, but it makes all the difference on track - it's something that seems to be true of the Exige as well, so I'm sure there's still plenty to be gained from upgrading the suspension on any road car.
The Evora S was in contention when I originally bought this, but I just couldn't get to grips with how heavy it was for a lotus and wanted some more practical rear seats, as you alluded to.
What's funny is that when mine was corner weighted, it was around the 1520 mark - less than 100kg heavier than the book weight for an Evora S, that seems mental to me!
£500 a set of tyres would be nice, what are they and what size?
Fair enoughThe Evora S was in contention when I originally bought this, but I just couldn't get to grips with how heavy it was for a lotus and wanted some more practical rear seats, as you alluded to.
What's funny is that when mine was corner weighted, it was around the 1520 mark - less than 100kg heavier than the book weight for an Evora S, that seems mental to me!
£500 a set of tyres would be nice, what are they and what size?
18f/19r
£140 each for rears for pilot super sports (merc fittment) and £100 for front each
None at all.
I've seen some issues mentioned in the US but I think they are tracking in a far warmer climate than our own.
Snetterton at 25c+ was certainly no issue over 20-30 minute sessions.
The Gearbox will throw up a warning long before it's an issue, anyway, so nothing to worry about really.
I've seen some issues mentioned in the US but I think they are tracking in a far warmer climate than our own.
Snetterton at 25c+ was certainly no issue over 20-30 minute sessions.
The Gearbox will throw up a warning long before it's an issue, anyway, so nothing to worry about really.
Iceicebaby1980 said:
I had a Alpina b3 biturbo before I purchased my e90 m3. Both good cars just Somthing extra special about the M.
I used to run an E92 B3 Biturbo too (which I loved) and am thinking of getting an E92 M3. How would you say the two compare, is the comparative lack of low down torque on the M3 a big annoyance in daily driving?Drivebyabuser said:
Obviously this is a DTC one - Any thoughts on manual v DTC for a Sunday car with occasional track use. Im having that debate (in my head) at the moment.
Mine was a manual and I wanted the manual purely because it's rare to get a car with a V8 mated to three pedals, in saying that I do think the DCT suits the engine better and the manual isn't that great to use. JKING said:
Nice write up Mike, didn't realise you were on Pistonheads aswell as cutters 
hopefully see you on track again soon!
Hey Josh - I'm everywhere hopefully see you on track again soon!
Drivebyabuser said:
Obviously this is a DTC one - Any thoughts on manual v DTC for a Sunday car with occasional track use. Im having that debate (in my head) at the moment.
That's a tough one, it's all down to personal preference, I suppose. The E46 and E92 manuals haven't been the best boxes, so I think that sways me towards the DCT.
Also, there is a certain novelty to flat-shifting at 8300RPM that never gets old
kith said:
Iceicebaby1980 said:
I had a Alpina b3 biturbo before I purchased my e90 m3. Both good cars just Somthing extra special about the M.
I used to run an E92 B3 Biturbo too (which I loved) and am thinking of getting an E92 M3. How would you say the two compare, is the comparative lack of low down torque on the M3 a big annoyance in daily driving?There's a few people asking questions on here that I think I'm in a pretty good position to answer. Before the E92 I had a 3 litre E36 M3 which I owned for just over ten years. It was a cracking car, mechanically very strong but the fight against the tin worm was becoming an uphill battle and as my only car and having no garage to keep it out of the elements I just couldn't justify taking it off the road continually to get bits patched up. I decided against an E46 because in my opinion it was just too similar to what I already had, plus some of the jokers out there were advertising them for close to or more than I paid for an Approved Used E92. The fact is the E46 is an old car (albeit an excellent one), and the horror stories of the boot floors ripping on them seemed to be getting more common so I decided to use some man maths to justify an E92, as it was a car I'd wanted since I first saw them in the magazines.
The question of how much faster than the previous versions is difficult to answer. Yes, they are faster, they have bigger and more powerful engines but they don't always feel like they are faster. They are bigger, heavier cars than the E36/E46 and combined with the improved quality of the cabin materials and better NVH characteristics you don't get the rawness of the earlier cars so I was initially a little disappointed with mine, but as I've gotten to know it over the past two years I've realised that its breadth of abilities is far wider than my E36 ever was, and once you properly lean on them on a twisty bit of mountain road the speeds you can carry through corners is mind blowing and if the car is set up with the maximum attack settings on the M button and you keep it in the right gears the punch out of the corners is properly thrilling, the induction noise is spine tingling to say the least. But what I also love about it is that once play time is over you can turn the M button off, wind the window back up and it turns into a nice GT car that you can waft along in. It does the dual personality thing much better than the E36 ever did.
As for which gearbox, well there was only one choice for me and that was manual. I know people love the DCT and it is a very good box, but I prefer the extra involvement of driving a manual car and my big worry with the DCT is the fact that it is still a mechanical item and one day it will wear out/break, and when that day comes its going to be significantly more expensive to repair than the manual.
My car also doesn't have the EDC dampers. I've been told that the passive ones like mine are about equivalent to the "normal" setting on the EDC ones. Again this was something I specifically wanted as I previously replaced all 4 dampers, all 4 top mounts and the rear springs on my E36 and with labour it weighed in at around £1100, which was about the same as people were paying for one EDC damper on an E31 or E34. I haven't looked into the costs of replacing an E92 version but I bet its a lot higher than the cost of the passive damper. When the day comes to replace them I can always go aftermarket with the usual Bilstein/Eibach combination if I feel I need more body control. The ride on the passive dampers is firm, but not uncomfortably so and passengers often comment on how well it rides the bumps. Also, when you're giving it the beans the suspension keeps things nicely under control, body roll and the nose pushing on only becoming an issue when you're really pushing it. Maybe on a track at 10/10ths it would come unstuck trying to keep the weight under control but on public roads driving with a bit of social responsibility towards other road users and respect for my license I haven't found it wanting 99% of the time and certainly don't feel I've missed out by not having EDC.
Brakes are another area a lot of people seem to criticise but as with the suspension in my experience they are more than up to a bit of fast road action. Again, this is probably something that you would notice more on track but on the road I have never managed to make them fade. They can be a bit inert from cold but with a bit of heat in them they bite nicely time after time. The only thing I've noticed with them is that if you are on a twisty bit of road, on and off them constantly they get nice and warm and bite well, but it doesn't take long for them to lose that heat and if you hit them after a section of more sweeping road where you haven't had to use them and that initial bite is gone and you have to push on them harder than you did previously to achieve the same retardation. I got very lucky when buying my car, during the PDI it was noted that the front discs and pads needed replacing so I got this done for free which saved me a fair chunk of money. 2 years and 20k later and they are still showing lots of life left, despite the damn good thrashings they have received.
To anyone thinking of getting one I'd recommend doing a lot of homework on what they cost to run as it can be a painful experience at times. I was once told by a specialist that M3 stands for multiply by 3, and they aren't far wrong as parts prices and servicing can be significantly higher than on a "normal" 3 series. I went into my E36 ownership with my eyes open and knew what to expect before I bought it, and with that experience behind me I wasn't fazed by the prospect of running the E92, but anyone stepping up from a hot hatch it will be an eye opener!
Fuel is by far the biggest cost. No matter how you drive it at the end of the day its a 4 litre V8 and it takes a lot of juice to keep that thing running. My average economy is high teens, and it will do low to mid 20's on a longer run. My best ever tankful was about 320 miles, but that was from brimmed to on fumes and all motorway miles. Usually I fill it when it hits a quarter tank, which gives me about 200-220 miles range. I only ever run it on V power which doesn't help with the running costs but I think it's the best fuel out there and have never had issues, unlike some of my mates who run stuff like Tesco 99 etc.
Insurance isn't bad, about £550 a year, full comp with protected NCD, car parked on a driveway over night.
Tax is a ballache at over £500 but I pay this monthly which isn't too bad.
Servicing is expensive. I didn't have a service pack with mine so I've had to fork out from my own pocket. Last year I had to have the 3rd oil change, which is basically an Inspection II by a different name, so engine oil and filter, gearbox oil, diff oil, spark plugs, air filter and cabin micro filters. Even with a 10% discount on parts and a reduced labour rate of £90 an hour instead of the usual £125 it still cost nearly £800. This summer I had an oil change and air con refresh on the same terms as above and it cost £340.
It's been very reliable so far (touch wood!) with only an O2 sensor playing up which was replaced under the AUC warranty. I've since let the warranty slide as I didn't get the renewal in under the 60k mark and the price was extortionate, more than the monthly payments on the car itself so now I've built up a slush fund as a "just in case". The battery is on its way out, its the original unit and now 9 years old so its to be expected. I've started getting the battery warnings and loss of time and date, trip counter etc. A new battery from BMW, with a bit of discount for being a BMWCC member weighed in at £160, which is a lot cheaper than I could get a decent Bosch one from ECP for. The only PITA with it is the car has an intelligent charging system so you can't just chuck a battery in, you have to tell the car it's had a new battery otherwise it can lead to over charging and shorten the battery life. Annoyingly this cant be done via the idrive, it has to be logged into. The main dealer wanted £125 to fit and register the battery, a local specialist will be about £40 for the same service.
The only other item I've had to replace is tyres. I run Kumho Ku39's on it and I've been really impressed with them, on my second set now. "A" rated for wet weather grip, and decently priced at around £440 for 4 fitted through Blackcircles, I cant fault them. Maybe a Michelin Pilot Supersport would be a better tyre, but they are double the price and on the road at least (mirroring my comments about brakes and suspension) the Kumhos are more than up to the task and I've never found them wanting in any situation. I've recently changed the wheels from the original Style 220's to a set of Avant Garde M359's which are 1/2 inch wider all round so currently the tyres look a bit stretched so come replacement time I'm going to go with the M3 GTS profiles of 255/35/19 front and 285's on the rear, which should improve upon the already impressive grip levels.
The lack of low down torque can be an issue in daily diving, especially if you are coming to it from a turbo car with their instant shove in the back. However, I have found that setting the throttle response to "sport" off the key (its in the idrive settings) makes it feel a lot less sluggish and means I don't have to have the M button pressed all the time, which I found made the car a bit hyperactive unless on a charge. On the days where you can ring it out though the fireworks higher up the rev range do compensate for the low down stuff. Llanberis pass, 3rd/4th gear in maximum attack mode this summer will stay with me till the day they shut the lid down on me!
For anyone thinking of getting one, as long as your pockets are deep enough I'd urge you to do it now before its too late. There wont be another car like this along again and I wont be changing mine anytime soon, all I need now is the Akrapovic exhaust to unleash a bit more of that V8 soundtrack and I'm golden. Its already got a BMC filter in which made a big difference to the induction noise and something I'd recommend to anyone, well worth 50 quid.
I hope this is helpful and answers some of those questions people wanted to know!
The question of how much faster than the previous versions is difficult to answer. Yes, they are faster, they have bigger and more powerful engines but they don't always feel like they are faster. They are bigger, heavier cars than the E36/E46 and combined with the improved quality of the cabin materials and better NVH characteristics you don't get the rawness of the earlier cars so I was initially a little disappointed with mine, but as I've gotten to know it over the past two years I've realised that its breadth of abilities is far wider than my E36 ever was, and once you properly lean on them on a twisty bit of mountain road the speeds you can carry through corners is mind blowing and if the car is set up with the maximum attack settings on the M button and you keep it in the right gears the punch out of the corners is properly thrilling, the induction noise is spine tingling to say the least. But what I also love about it is that once play time is over you can turn the M button off, wind the window back up and it turns into a nice GT car that you can waft along in. It does the dual personality thing much better than the E36 ever did.
As for which gearbox, well there was only one choice for me and that was manual. I know people love the DCT and it is a very good box, but I prefer the extra involvement of driving a manual car and my big worry with the DCT is the fact that it is still a mechanical item and one day it will wear out/break, and when that day comes its going to be significantly more expensive to repair than the manual.
My car also doesn't have the EDC dampers. I've been told that the passive ones like mine are about equivalent to the "normal" setting on the EDC ones. Again this was something I specifically wanted as I previously replaced all 4 dampers, all 4 top mounts and the rear springs on my E36 and with labour it weighed in at around £1100, which was about the same as people were paying for one EDC damper on an E31 or E34. I haven't looked into the costs of replacing an E92 version but I bet its a lot higher than the cost of the passive damper. When the day comes to replace them I can always go aftermarket with the usual Bilstein/Eibach combination if I feel I need more body control. The ride on the passive dampers is firm, but not uncomfortably so and passengers often comment on how well it rides the bumps. Also, when you're giving it the beans the suspension keeps things nicely under control, body roll and the nose pushing on only becoming an issue when you're really pushing it. Maybe on a track at 10/10ths it would come unstuck trying to keep the weight under control but on public roads driving with a bit of social responsibility towards other road users and respect for my license I haven't found it wanting 99% of the time and certainly don't feel I've missed out by not having EDC.
Brakes are another area a lot of people seem to criticise but as with the suspension in my experience they are more than up to a bit of fast road action. Again, this is probably something that you would notice more on track but on the road I have never managed to make them fade. They can be a bit inert from cold but with a bit of heat in them they bite nicely time after time. The only thing I've noticed with them is that if you are on a twisty bit of road, on and off them constantly they get nice and warm and bite well, but it doesn't take long for them to lose that heat and if you hit them after a section of more sweeping road where you haven't had to use them and that initial bite is gone and you have to push on them harder than you did previously to achieve the same retardation. I got very lucky when buying my car, during the PDI it was noted that the front discs and pads needed replacing so I got this done for free which saved me a fair chunk of money. 2 years and 20k later and they are still showing lots of life left, despite the damn good thrashings they have received.
To anyone thinking of getting one I'd recommend doing a lot of homework on what they cost to run as it can be a painful experience at times. I was once told by a specialist that M3 stands for multiply by 3, and they aren't far wrong as parts prices and servicing can be significantly higher than on a "normal" 3 series. I went into my E36 ownership with my eyes open and knew what to expect before I bought it, and with that experience behind me I wasn't fazed by the prospect of running the E92, but anyone stepping up from a hot hatch it will be an eye opener!
Fuel is by far the biggest cost. No matter how you drive it at the end of the day its a 4 litre V8 and it takes a lot of juice to keep that thing running. My average economy is high teens, and it will do low to mid 20's on a longer run. My best ever tankful was about 320 miles, but that was from brimmed to on fumes and all motorway miles. Usually I fill it when it hits a quarter tank, which gives me about 200-220 miles range. I only ever run it on V power which doesn't help with the running costs but I think it's the best fuel out there and have never had issues, unlike some of my mates who run stuff like Tesco 99 etc.
Insurance isn't bad, about £550 a year, full comp with protected NCD, car parked on a driveway over night.
Tax is a ballache at over £500 but I pay this monthly which isn't too bad.
Servicing is expensive. I didn't have a service pack with mine so I've had to fork out from my own pocket. Last year I had to have the 3rd oil change, which is basically an Inspection II by a different name, so engine oil and filter, gearbox oil, diff oil, spark plugs, air filter and cabin micro filters. Even with a 10% discount on parts and a reduced labour rate of £90 an hour instead of the usual £125 it still cost nearly £800. This summer I had an oil change and air con refresh on the same terms as above and it cost £340.
It's been very reliable so far (touch wood!) with only an O2 sensor playing up which was replaced under the AUC warranty. I've since let the warranty slide as I didn't get the renewal in under the 60k mark and the price was extortionate, more than the monthly payments on the car itself so now I've built up a slush fund as a "just in case". The battery is on its way out, its the original unit and now 9 years old so its to be expected. I've started getting the battery warnings and loss of time and date, trip counter etc. A new battery from BMW, with a bit of discount for being a BMWCC member weighed in at £160, which is a lot cheaper than I could get a decent Bosch one from ECP for. The only PITA with it is the car has an intelligent charging system so you can't just chuck a battery in, you have to tell the car it's had a new battery otherwise it can lead to over charging and shorten the battery life. Annoyingly this cant be done via the idrive, it has to be logged into. The main dealer wanted £125 to fit and register the battery, a local specialist will be about £40 for the same service.
The only other item I've had to replace is tyres. I run Kumho Ku39's on it and I've been really impressed with them, on my second set now. "A" rated for wet weather grip, and decently priced at around £440 for 4 fitted through Blackcircles, I cant fault them. Maybe a Michelin Pilot Supersport would be a better tyre, but they are double the price and on the road at least (mirroring my comments about brakes and suspension) the Kumhos are more than up to the task and I've never found them wanting in any situation. I've recently changed the wheels from the original Style 220's to a set of Avant Garde M359's which are 1/2 inch wider all round so currently the tyres look a bit stretched so come replacement time I'm going to go with the M3 GTS profiles of 255/35/19 front and 285's on the rear, which should improve upon the already impressive grip levels.
The lack of low down torque can be an issue in daily diving, especially if you are coming to it from a turbo car with their instant shove in the back. However, I have found that setting the throttle response to "sport" off the key (its in the idrive settings) makes it feel a lot less sluggish and means I don't have to have the M button pressed all the time, which I found made the car a bit hyperactive unless on a charge. On the days where you can ring it out though the fireworks higher up the rev range do compensate for the low down stuff. Llanberis pass, 3rd/4th gear in maximum attack mode this summer will stay with me till the day they shut the lid down on me!
For anyone thinking of getting one, as long as your pockets are deep enough I'd urge you to do it now before its too late. There wont be another car like this along again and I wont be changing mine anytime soon, all I need now is the Akrapovic exhaust to unleash a bit more of that V8 soundtrack and I'm golden. Its already got a BMC filter in which made a big difference to the induction noise and something I'd recommend to anyone, well worth 50 quid.
I hope this is helpful and answers some of those questions people wanted to know!
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