RE: BMW M3: PH Carpool
Discussion
culpz said:
Nice to hear an owner not mentioning the typical "it has no/usable/low-down torque" comments. There is something really appealing as an ownership proposition with the E92 M3. It's a car i'd happily splash the cash on, if i had it that is!
As lovely as the new M3/M4 is, i think it's just something i'd want to lease and give back after a bit and then move onto the next one.
This one in particular looks gorgeous. Not really a fan of white cars bit i'm loving the contrasting gloss black bits and pieces on it. It's got a perfect stance aswell and them wheels suit it to the ground. Bravo
Haha, it does have low down torque - just not quite enough As lovely as the new M3/M4 is, i think it's just something i'd want to lease and give back after a bit and then move onto the next one.
This one in particular looks gorgeous. Not really a fan of white cars bit i'm loving the contrasting gloss black bits and pieces on it. It's got a perfect stance aswell and them wheels suit it to the ground. Bravo
(but yes I did come from a turbo car and was spoiled before). M Sport Sharp or whatever it's called, MDM mode, etc - still didn't provide the shove I expected, BUT the power delivery is more linear which makes it feel more refined and easier to deal with if you're used to have a car that liked to try and kill you when you put your foot to the floor 
I have a DCT E92 M3, but I have found myself completely unable to bond with the car because of the auto box, I am just not a fan and am selling and going back to a manual after just 8 months of ownership.
It's a GREAT car in so many other respects:
- Ride and handling / grip
- Engine noise
- Top end speed (bonkers)
- Looks (much better looking than the M3/4 F series in my opinion)
- Practicality (massive boot, ISOFix front and back)
...but as many have pointed out, it's expensive to tune (unless you have deep pockets and a fuel tanker to follow you), and the black paint is an utter nightmare to keep free of swirls and scratches - without a doubt the softest paint on a car I've owned.
I'm also not a fan of iDrive, give me a touchscreen head unit any day of the week.
The above are minor criticisms though.
For me, the 3 bugbears that are making me sell are:
- Usable power is more top end (and there's a lot of it), but sadly, unless you're a track day man like the OP, can't be exploited legally on a daily basis, especially on UK roads which tend to be damp throughout much of the year. It also means you can get embarrassed by a far cheaper turbo car like a Saab, even when you're in MDM and redlining it in every gear, which is frustrating when you've spent all that cash.
- The DCT frustrates me in corners or if I need to change down 2 or 3 gears quickly for an overtake; the left paddle pull trick is too hit and miss for me to be trusting of it. You can try and adjust your driving style, but it makes me miss manual where you know what you want, choose it and go.
- It's too expensive to break or have things fail without a warranty unless you have deep pockets. And like the previous poster mentioned, the £515 a year road tax is a PITA.
I've been chastised by many for daring to criticise the M brand, but wouldn't surprise me if I end up in a manual E92 M3 in a few years' time, I'm just wanting a change right now and wanting something a bit lairier until I'm ready to chill out and enjoy the more sensible and grown up car that the M3 ultimately represents. If not, I'll end up with another Subaru money pit
Hopefully I won't get flamed too much the M brigade for those comments
.I know some people are huge DCT fans and won't hear a word said against it, but for me, the more entertaining and rewarding experience comes from a manual car.
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 13th September 17:25
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 13th September 17:28
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 13th September 17:29
xjay1337 said:
I haven't driven it properly but I have driven E9X M3 manuals around and the one memory was the clutch was awful. Very spongey, felt like it had a delay valve.
DCT all the way IMO , my spec that I would go for is E90 (4 doors so sexy), DCT, Adaptive Dampers.
Job jobbed.
The manual is absolutely fine if you get a good one - no notchiness etc. DCT all the way IMO , my spec that I would go for is E90 (4 doors so sexy), DCT, Adaptive Dampers.
Job jobbed.
Some people who track their cars have used clutch stops though...
BigLion said:
^ If I'm honest I don't think you quite get how to drive the M car to get the best out of it - why don't you go to a M car meet and take some passenger rides before you sell up?
ETA : this was directed at MrNoisey for clarity
Would you like to be more condescending? ETA : this was directed at MrNoisey for clarity
It's comments like this whenever you dare to direct criticism which have made owning an M car a far less enjoyable experience for me. Other people agree with me on forums, it's not just me I'm afraid.
When you've owned a faster car previously, sometimes the next one doesn't excite as much. It's been the same experience for me.
How about at least asking me some questions before jumping in feet first...
Just because you like a car doesn't mean everyone else has to, or that they can't drive if they don't get on with.
I like the car, I even said I might have another one in a few year's time. Please just accept that and move on!
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 13th September 17:34
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 13th September 17:35
BigLion said:
The manual is absolutely fine if you get a good one - no notchiness etc.
Some people who track their cars have used clutch stops though...
I didn't say notchiness.Some people who track their cars have used clutch stops though...
I said the clutch was horrible. It wasn't an old car either, 3 years old with about 25k on the clock. It felt like pressing down on a sponge. It would not come up quickly enough. Horrible.
mrnoisy78 said:
BigLion said:
^ If I'm honest I don't think you quite get how to drive the M car to get the best out of it - why don't you go to a M car meet and take some passenger rides before you sell up?
ETA : this was directed at MrNoisey for clarity
Would you like to be more condescending? ETA : this was directed at MrNoisey for clarity
It's comments like this whenever you dare to direct criticism which have made owning an M car a far less enjoyable experience for me. Other people agree with me on forums, it's not just me I'm afraid.
When you've owned a faster car previously, sometimes the next one doesn't excite as much. It's been the same experience for me.
How about at least asking me some questions before jumping in feet first...
Just because you like a car doesn't mean everyone else has to, or that they can't drive if they don't get on with.
I like the car, I even said I might have another one in a few year's time. Please just accept that and move on!
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 13th September 17:34
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 13th September 17:35
Have a look at 0-100mph between the e92 and f80/2 - in real world driving conditions there is sod all in it - a couple of car lengths.
What's the torque on the f80/2?
Ergo If you're getting smoked by all and sundry then it points to an issue in the way you're driving the e92 as opposed to a lack of torque.
BigLion said:
Ergo If you're getting smoked by all and sundry then it points to an issue in the way you're driving the e92 as opposed to a lack of torque.
He didn't say that though did he.On a wet road, these beasts have too much torque if anything! (Which is what he hinted at.)
I am sure if you spend your life practicing 0-60 on a skid pan you could "smoke" heavily turboed Saabs in whatever weather but for those of us with a life/who aren't internet driving gods, I would say it is a fair criticism that the car has too much power for everyday use, unless you live on the IoM.
In any case I preferred the manual because 1. cheaper, and 2. I like the physical act of a solid gear change!
mpit said:
Why does everyone keep suggesting they are really thirsty.
20+ is easily achievable on the road
30 is achievable on a run
Those figures seem really optimistic to me although mine was a manual and I know the DCT is more fuel efficient, it's an engine that encourages you to kick its backside so I didn't get anywhere near those figures. 20+ is easily achievable on the road
30 is achievable on a run
Most reviews comment on its poor range and thirst so I think it's valid to call it a thirsty car.
walm said:
BigLion said:
Ergo If you're getting smoked by all and sundry then it points to an issue in the way you're driving the e92 as opposed to a lack of torque.
He didn't say that though did he.On a wet road, these beasts have too much torque if anything! (Which is what he hinted at.)
I am sure if you spend your life practicing 0-60 on a skid pan you could "smoke" heavily turboed Saabs in whatever weather but for those of us with a life/who aren't internet driving gods, I would say it is a fair criticism that the car has too much power for everyday use, unless you live on the IoM.
In any case I preferred the manual because 1. cheaper, and 2. I like the physical act of a solid gear change!
cerb4.5lee said:
mpit said:
Why does everyone keep suggesting they are really thirsty.
20+ is easily achievable on the road
30 is achievable on a run
Those figures seem really optimistic to me although mine was a manual and I know the DCT is more fuel efficient, it's an engine that encourages you to kick its backside so I didn't get anywhere near those figures. 20+ is easily achievable on the road
30 is achievable on a run
Most reviews comment on its poor range and thirst so I think it's valid to call it a thirsty car.
Best ever over a tank was just over 24.
cerb4.5lee said:
Those figures seem really optimistic to me although mine was a manual and I know the DCT is more fuel efficient, it's an engine that encourages you to kick its backside so I didn't get anywhere near those figures.
Most reviews comment on its poor range and thirst so I think it's valid to call it a thirsty car.
There's no optimism involved, that's what I've averaged over the last 12k miles. Most reviews comment on its poor range and thirst so I think it's valid to call it a thirsty car.
Hell, my total average since owning the car is 18mpg including 10 track days!
BigLion said:
Woah, you've over-reacted a tad !!!
Have a look at 0-100mph between the e92 and f80/2 - in real world driving conditions there is sod all in it - a couple of car lengths.
What's the torque on the f80/2?
Ergo If you're getting smoked by all and sundry then it points to an issue in the way you're driving the e92 as opposed to a lack of torque.
Right - scouse wig on - calm down calm down Have a look at 0-100mph between the e92 and f80/2 - in real world driving conditions there is sod all in it - a couple of car lengths.
What's the torque on the f80/2?
Ergo If you're getting smoked by all and sundry then it points to an issue in the way you're driving the e92 as opposed to a lack of torque.
It's not just about torque figures it's where in the rev range it's delivered mate.
I came from an AWD turbo car with 440/390, so a little more than an F80/2, and even though the F80/2 is on sequential turbos, personally I think the map has been toned down so it doesn't scare the majority of owners - I suspect if you had deep pockets and tuned one it would a savage beast.
It didn't impress me personally, I preferred the E92 (the noise of the F8x is horrible too imo).
My old car was way more of a handful than the E92, but regarding the "you don't know how to drive it" comment, two responses:
1. It's an auto, it's really not hard to drive
and2. Unless you're suggesting I drive everywhere in the 5500-6000rpm band "waiting" for someone to overtake me or for someone to overtake, then it's a mute point - it just doesn't have that instant pick up you sometimes need or want - and that's fine *if* you are approaching a line of cars and can build up to attack speed, but rubbish if you need to drop a few cogs, nail it and wait for the engine to catch up before pulling out - part of that is probably to do with the DCT gearing which is very quick in a straight line solid pull, but less ideal in other situations - imo of course.
Just FYI as well, I wasn't getting "smoked by all and sundry", but on occassion, where you get surprised, the car doesn't deliver fast enough was the point I was making. I average 18-20mpg sometimes worse, so I don't drive like Miss Daisy.
Listen - don't get me wrong, it's a very good car, but for me right now it doesn't tick all the boxes.
As a comfortable, fast, practical, pretty car though, it's a very tough all round package to beat and if you want more of a crazy car you have to sacrifice somewhere, as I have.
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 13th September 19:26
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 13th September 20:50
If you're pulling out and then dropping gears, maybe that's your issue?
I mean, it changes down within a couple of hundred milliseconds, if spending a second or two max shifting down before making a presumably well planned manoeuvre really that great an inconvenience?
As for the comparison against an F8x, I have just the video for you :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDsoRz10E0
I mean, it changes down within a couple of hundred milliseconds, if spending a second or two max shifting down before making a presumably well planned manoeuvre really that great an inconvenience?
As for the comparison against an F8x, I have just the video for you :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDsoRz10E0
mpit said:
Why does everyone keep suggesting they are really thirsty.
20+ is easily achievable on the road
30 is achievable on a run
Seems pretty good for an M3 and actually slightly better than my E46 was.
My daily average around 22mpg. Best was the run to the Nurburgring, with some A4-action, getting 28.xmpg.20+ is easily achievable on the road
30 is achievable on a run
Seems pretty good for an M3 and actually slightly better than my E46 was.
mpit said:
If you're pulling out and then dropping gears, maybe that's your issue?
I mean, it changes down within a couple of hundred milliseconds, if spending a second or two max shifting down before making a presumably well planned manoeuvre really that great an inconvenience?
As for the comparison against an F8x, I have just the video for you :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDsoRz10E0
You know I didn't mean that I pull out and change gears, jesus you lot can't let anything go can you I mean, it changes down within a couple of hundred milliseconds, if spending a second or two max shifting down before making a presumably well planned manoeuvre really that great an inconvenience?
As for the comparison against an F8x, I have just the video for you :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDsoRz10E0
Ultimately, you and the other poster are pretty much backing up my original point that M owners sometimes struggle to accept criticism of their beloved marque, but every car has faults, and not everyone has to like a car just because you do, that's life.
If we all liked the same thing life would be pretty simple and boring
.Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 13th September 20:00
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 13th September 20:02
mrnoisy78 said:
You know I didn't mean that I pull out and change gears, jesus you lot can't let anything go can you
Ultimately, you and the other poster are pretty much backing up my original point that M owners sometimes struggle to accept criticism of their beloved marque, but every car has faults, and not everyone has to like a car just because you do, that's life.
If we all liked the same thing life would be pretty simple and boring.
I don't know what you meant, I can only take what you've written at face value. Ultimately, you and the other poster are pretty much backing up my original point that M owners sometimes struggle to accept criticism of their beloved marque, but every car has faults, and not everyone has to like a car just because you do, that's life.
If we all liked the same thing life would be pretty simple and boring
.Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 13th September 20:00
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Tuesday 13th September 20:02
There are plenty of criticisms to be made about the M3;
It's heavy,
It eats brakes and tyres,
McPh front suspension is less than ideal,
PAS is not sufficiently cooled,
Steering is perhaps a little over assisted,
and err... It's heavy
However, I can't see "just" 300ft/lb of torque as being one of them, especially when you have 7 ratios to choose from and can change ratios in around 100ms.
mpit said:
I don't know what you meant, I can only take what you've written at face value.
There are plenty of criticisms to be made about the M3;
It's heavy,
It eats brakes and tyres,
McPh front suspension is less than ideal,
PAS is not sufficiently cooled,
Steering is perhaps a little over assisted,
and err... It's heavy
However, I can't see "just" 300ft/lb of torque as being one of them, especially when you have 7 ratios to choose from and can change ratios in around 100ms.
Well if we're going to be pedantic about it, a gearbox can change in 100ms. A human can't There are plenty of criticisms to be made about the M3;
It's heavy,
It eats brakes and tyres,
McPh front suspension is less than ideal,
PAS is not sufficiently cooled,
Steering is perhaps a little over assisted,
and err... It's heavy
However, I can't see "just" 300ft/lb of torque as being one of them, especially when you have 7 ratios to choose from and can change ratios in around 100ms.
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