Pagid brake pads and discs from Euro Car Parts for Volvo S40
Discussion
Hi
I fitted new Pagid brake pads and discs to the rear of my Volvo S40 (1996 - 2004) when the originals were worn. No problems.
When the front pads needed replacing I fitted new Pagid brake pads and discs.
Initially after fitting, they felt great. However, within a few thousand miles the brakes developed a pulsation, which became unbearable (and to be honest very dangerous).
I exchanged these for replacements at Euro Car Parts, who provided new discs but refused to supply new pads. They also assured me that it was the car/fitting and not the parts and that the pulsation was caused because the discs were not running true on the hub (not that they inspected anything to confirm).
I replaced the discs after cleaning the hub, it was relatively clean already but I gave it a good clean anyway.
I checked the run out by fixing a pencil in the caliper and rotating the disc and there seemed to be no run out. I've never had to do this in the past nor ever used a dial indicator when replacing discs.
After about 500 miles the replacement new brake discs started to pulsate again, although they didn't get as bad, they still go pretty bad/ borderline dangerous.
I have replaced with some cheap pads and discs from GSF and will see how these go.
Again, I can't hear, see or feel or gauge any run out,
Before I took the old discs off I could hear the driver's side disc catch the caliper as it rotated, something it wasn't doing when it was first fitted.
I test drove the car with only one disc replaced and although it was significantly reduced there was still a noticeable pulsation, so both discs were contributing to the pulsation.
I could also compare the discs, the new cheaper discs are thicker on one side compared to the Pagid discs from Euro Car Parts.
I can't tell if the old discs are warped disc or there is a disc thickness variation due to pad transfer or uneven wear. There do appear to be pad imprints on the disc. N.B. Due to all this ridiculousness I have been very careful with my braking and I don't leave my foot on the brake when stopped.
The new discs feel great now (still bedding in gently though) and I will see if within 500 miles or so the pulsation starts to come back and then report back.
Has anyone else had any similar issues?!
I fitted new Pagid brake pads and discs to the rear of my Volvo S40 (1996 - 2004) when the originals were worn. No problems.
When the front pads needed replacing I fitted new Pagid brake pads and discs.
Initially after fitting, they felt great. However, within a few thousand miles the brakes developed a pulsation, which became unbearable (and to be honest very dangerous).
I exchanged these for replacements at Euro Car Parts, who provided new discs but refused to supply new pads. They also assured me that it was the car/fitting and not the parts and that the pulsation was caused because the discs were not running true on the hub (not that they inspected anything to confirm).
I replaced the discs after cleaning the hub, it was relatively clean already but I gave it a good clean anyway.
I checked the run out by fixing a pencil in the caliper and rotating the disc and there seemed to be no run out. I've never had to do this in the past nor ever used a dial indicator when replacing discs.
After about 500 miles the replacement new brake discs started to pulsate again, although they didn't get as bad, they still go pretty bad/ borderline dangerous.
I have replaced with some cheap pads and discs from GSF and will see how these go.
Again, I can't hear, see or feel or gauge any run out,
Before I took the old discs off I could hear the driver's side disc catch the caliper as it rotated, something it wasn't doing when it was first fitted.
I test drove the car with only one disc replaced and although it was significantly reduced there was still a noticeable pulsation, so both discs were contributing to the pulsation.
I could also compare the discs, the new cheaper discs are thicker on one side compared to the Pagid discs from Euro Car Parts.
I can't tell if the old discs are warped disc or there is a disc thickness variation due to pad transfer or uneven wear. There do appear to be pad imprints on the disc. N.B. Due to all this ridiculousness I have been very careful with my braking and I don't leave my foot on the brake when stopped.
The new discs feel great now (still bedding in gently though) and I will see if within 500 miles or so the pulsation starts to come back and then report back.
Has anyone else had any similar issues?!
That is interesting, I have never seen anyone use a dial indicator when putting on new discs in any of the youtube videos or any other instruction for changing discs, and as mentioned; I have never needed one before.
The pencil helped gauge run out, as the disc rotates if there is run out the pencil tip gets closer or further from the disc. This could be too small for the eye to see so place the pencil in the caliper with the disc rotated from different points if there is a run out the mark left by the pencil will be greater at the high point of the disc run out - I appreciate a dial indicator would have been better way of doing this but .
I've read the stop tech website, it has been posted as a link on many other forum discussions about the same problem, none of which actually have a solution hence why I started this thread.
As mentioned I am not sure if the discs are warped (which Stoptech suggest is not really possible) or it is just pad transfer - I suspect both but more the former on the basis that the discs supplied by Pagid were thinner.
As the judder has happened only with the Euro Car Parts' Pagid parts but not with GSF VeTech parts the easy test would be to put the Pagid pads onto the new discs and see if judder returns, if it did it would prove that it is pad transfer caused by the Pagid pads, if it didn't it would prove that it is disc warping.
Either way, I'm not inclined to waste time with Pagid or Euro Car Parts again and I take the Stoptech article with a handful of salt.
The pencil helped gauge run out, as the disc rotates if there is run out the pencil tip gets closer or further from the disc. This could be too small for the eye to see so place the pencil in the caliper with the disc rotated from different points if there is a run out the mark left by the pencil will be greater at the high point of the disc run out - I appreciate a dial indicator would have been better way of doing this but .
I've read the stop tech website, it has been posted as a link on many other forum discussions about the same problem, none of which actually have a solution hence why I started this thread.
As mentioned I am not sure if the discs are warped (which Stoptech suggest is not really possible) or it is just pad transfer - I suspect both but more the former on the basis that the discs supplied by Pagid were thinner.
As the judder has happened only with the Euro Car Parts' Pagid parts but not with GSF VeTech parts the easy test would be to put the Pagid pads onto the new discs and see if judder returns, if it did it would prove that it is pad transfer caused by the Pagid pads, if it didn't it would prove that it is disc warping.
Either way, I'm not inclined to waste time with Pagid or Euro Car Parts again and I take the Stoptech article with a handful of salt.
Given you could have too much runout at half a tenth of a mm I don't think you're going to see much variation in the pencil line thickness, especially given the play in floating calipers.
I'd be inclined to check everything in the calipers is moving freely and smoothly too, could be binding with new pads.
I'd be inclined to check everything in the calipers is moving freely and smoothly too, could be binding with new pads.
Edited by PhillipM on Monday 19th September 16:01
Thanks for the response Phillipm. I doubt that I could see a tenth of a mm with the pencil test but probably a fifth of a mm. One thing that does make me curious is whether the run out would always be present as a judder or whether it creates Disc Thickness Variation. The calipers weren't binding and the sliders move freely.
Edited by gnorphy on Monday 19th September 20:52
Edited by gnorphy on Monday 19th September 20:56
That is very useful info. Maybe it was the pads and they were just prone to creating too much transfer to the disc, they covered my alloys in brake dust. As mentioned I was careful with the breaking, never kept my foot on the brake when stopped. ecp didn't refund the pads just the discs, hence if the pads were faulty they would just ruin another set of discs.
Thanks for your help
Thanks for your help
Having fitted lots of brakes over the years and a good chunk being Pagid if the disc run out is checked properly and deviations dealt with I haven't had any discs return with vibration. 0.1mm would be the absolute limit for me to be happy the nearer to 0.05mm run out I can get the better. If the discs can be fitted on to the drive flang in more than one orientation I will try the discs in a different place until I can get them as low as possible. Cleaning the drive flange is critical as 0.02mm deviation on the drive flange could end up well over 0.1mm at the edge of the disc. If the cheap discs don't end up with disc thickness veriation it's because they are fitting better on the drive flange. May be the last time you fitted them you did a better job of cleaning the drive flange. Just because the YouTube videos don't show a crucial step in fitting the brakes doesn't mean it should be overlooked.
Thanks for your response.
I have fitted a few discs before and never had an issues. switching to the gsf pads and discs has been the only way to resolve this and although the hub was cleaned again for the gsf parts there was no noticable difference in the hub. Both pagid discs developed a pulsation both times, neither of gsf discs have, the odds of that being a coincidence is remote.
Perhaps the Pagid pads just create more transfer for better braking ability and develop the pulsation much quicker and rather than develop a pulsation after 500 miles it will take 5000 miles on the gsf parts.
I have fitted a few discs before and never had an issues. switching to the gsf pads and discs has been the only way to resolve this and although the hub was cleaned again for the gsf parts there was no noticable difference in the hub. Both pagid discs developed a pulsation both times, neither of gsf discs have, the odds of that being a coincidence is remote.
Perhaps the Pagid pads just create more transfer for better braking ability and develop the pulsation much quicker and rather than develop a pulsation after 500 miles it will take 5000 miles on the gsf parts.
I had a similar experience with a set of 'Pagids' from ECP for my parents old Range Rover, they started juddering and misbehaving within 1000 miles. I've heard of a few people having similar issues. They're clearly rebranded/counterfeit items and not the quality you'd expect from a company like Pagid.
Haven't got round to having a close look at them yet to discover what's specifically causing the issue but I'd guess either poor material quality or wrong size centre bore
Also that Stoptech article is much pedalled but misleading. Yes judder can be caused by pad deposits but to say there's no such thing as a warped disc is total cobblers. It's typical for road car discs to go pringle shaped when they're overheated and for the high spots to then be worn off by light pad contact on the high spots during motorway miles causing DTV.
Haven't got round to having a close look at them yet to discover what's specifically causing the issue but I'd guess either poor material quality or wrong size centre bore
Also that Stoptech article is much pedalled but misleading. Yes judder can be caused by pad deposits but to say there's no such thing as a warped disc is total cobblers. It's typical for road car discs to go pringle shaped when they're overheated and for the high spots to then be worn off by light pad contact on the high spots during motorway miles causing DTV.
The gsf parts said they were for S40/carisma which is interesting as Mitsubishis are neither German Swedish or French but the S40 shares a lot of parts with the carisma. The OEM were £400... for all pads and discs, gsf were £125. Having been told it's run out on the hub by Euro Car Parts, I couldn't gamble £400 and if the GSF parts last half as long I'm still happy. However, if I could have got OEM cheaper I would have done.
Edited by gnorphy on Tuesday 27th September 21:45
gnorphy said:
The gsf parts said they were for S40/carisma which is interesting as Mitsubishis are neither German Swedish or French but the S40 shares a lot of parts with the carisma. The OEM were £400... for all pads and discs, gsf were £125. Having been told it's run out on the hub by Euro Car Parts, I couldn't gamble £400 and if the GSF parts last half as long I'm still happy. However, if I could have got OEM cheaper I would have done.
The S/V40 also known as X40 isn't swedish, and the Mitsubishi Charisma isn't Japanese, They were built in Holland by Nedcar hence the the platform sharingEdited by gnorphy on Tuesday 27th September 21:45
A bloke at Halfords that I know of once did say that he had seen a Pagid disc come to him and have the disc and bell separate! Unsurprisingly it was returned! No they are not split items either!
I've heard a few people saying that they will not touch Pagid parts from ECP, claiming that ECP have the brand rights for certain aspects and will basically slap the name on.
Saying that, I have used a set on the Clio including two track days and they were fine.
I have noticed on a few cars that genuine seems to be better than OE. My M3 for instance has great brakes and that is on OEM parts, yet they are often criticised. My Mondeo used to brake differently on Motorcraft, Cheapo and good pads too I noticed. Not a massive difference but notable nonetheless.
I've heard a few people saying that they will not touch Pagid parts from ECP, claiming that ECP have the brand rights for certain aspects and will basically slap the name on.
Saying that, I have used a set on the Clio including two track days and they were fine.
I have noticed on a few cars that genuine seems to be better than OE. My M3 for instance has great brakes and that is on OEM parts, yet they are often criticised. My Mondeo used to brake differently on Motorcraft, Cheapo and good pads too I noticed. Not a massive difference but notable nonetheless.
SebringMan said:
I have noticed on a few cars that genuine seems to be better than OE. My M3 for instance has great brakes and that is on OEM parts, yet they are often criticised.
If it has the pin drive semi floating discs then they all come from the same manufacturer as it's a proprietary technologyGassing Station | Suspension, Brakes & Tyres | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff