RE: America versus Europe: PH Blog
Discussion
I feel I can make a point here. I lived the first 35 years of my life in the US and the last 2 here in the UK. I have also driven all over Europe, from Spain to Poland.
The UK has a wonderful motorway system, they are wide, plenty of services, well maintained, etc. I cannot figure out for the life of me how there are so many accidents. The traffic, for the most part (outside of the M25) is not *that* heavy. (if you want heavy, try driving the 405 through Los Angeles, 6 lanes per side of pure congestion).
People in the US (on the motorways at least) seem to move with much more of a sense of purpose, you will rarely, if ever see anyone plodding along at 50 in lane 1. Police will not pull you over unless you are around 10-15 over. On the west coast it was not uncommon during my drive from Seattle to Los Angeles to just set my cruise control at 85 and relax.
I will admit that lane discipline in the US is horrible, but once you accept it and accept that fact that you can pass on either side, you will get on just fine.
I do not know what the answers are, but I do know that the camera system is not very good, as most people know where they are, drive as fast as they can, slow down for the camera, then its right back to going fast. (Maybe adopt a system like Spain, etc where the camera's are somewhat hidden?)
The UK has a wonderful motorway system, they are wide, plenty of services, well maintained, etc. I cannot figure out for the life of me how there are so many accidents. The traffic, for the most part (outside of the M25) is not *that* heavy. (if you want heavy, try driving the 405 through Los Angeles, 6 lanes per side of pure congestion).
People in the US (on the motorways at least) seem to move with much more of a sense of purpose, you will rarely, if ever see anyone plodding along at 50 in lane 1. Police will not pull you over unless you are around 10-15 over. On the west coast it was not uncommon during my drive from Seattle to Los Angeles to just set my cruise control at 85 and relax.
I will admit that lane discipline in the US is horrible, but once you accept it and accept that fact that you can pass on either side, you will get on just fine.
I do not know what the answers are, but I do know that the camera system is not very good, as most people know where they are, drive as fast as they can, slow down for the camera, then its right back to going fast. (Maybe adopt a system like Spain, etc where the camera's are somewhat hidden?)
I think I'd curl up in a ball and cry loudly if I had to commute and compete with the rat race these days; especially having to drive on the motorways.
It's reading things like this that makes me appreciate living in the rural side of life with the only road issues are tractors and cyclists. Not ideal but by the sounds of these SMART motorways I get off lightly
It's reading things like this that makes me appreciate living in the rural side of life with the only road issues are tractors and cyclists. Not ideal but by the sounds of these SMART motorways I get off lightly
havoc said:
1) why not?
2) why not?
3) £50 BILLION is currently budgeted for HS2 (the actual bill is forecast by independent reviewers to be possibly double that). That's a vanity scheme that will benefit rail-construction company bosses, contractors, and a small % of the country that need and will pay for higher-speed transport between Manchester and London (saving on B'ham to London is ~10-15 mins apparently, so not worth that much).
If our mildly-corrupt government didn't tie their b
ks to vanity projects like that, then we'd have PLENTY of money to sort our trunk-road infrastructure out over at least half of the critical areas.
At present, government spending is aimed at the very projects you mention. I don't know why and I wish it was different. Spend is being calculated and planned over a longer period than before, which allows for better planning, but we are a long way short of having sufficient funding to overhaul the network and build motoring utopia.2) why not?
3) £50 BILLION is currently budgeted for HS2 (the actual bill is forecast by independent reviewers to be possibly double that). That's a vanity scheme that will benefit rail-construction company bosses, contractors, and a small % of the country that need and will pay for higher-speed transport between Manchester and London (saving on B'ham to London is ~10-15 mins apparently, so not worth that much).
If our mildly-corrupt government didn't tie their b
ks to vanity projects like that, then we'd have PLENTY of money to sort our trunk-road infrastructure out over at least half of the critical areas.I've driven extensively on American interstates, mostly in the South. And I have driven on UK motorways. I agree totally with the points made here. In the UK, the increasing use of overhead "yellow vultures" for average speed means that I, and I am sure many others, focus more on the speedometer rather than the road. Even with the dreaded cruise control on, I am unable to relax since I will be often crammed in with huge trucks on all sides. Consequently, even when I go off cruise, I am then forced to revert to worrying about both my speed and the trucks. Everyone is nose-to-tail 3 lanes across.
However, the article is wrong about US interstates. There are no yellow vultures, no fixed radar traps, no incumbrance at all. Driving, for example, I10 between Houston and New Orleans, which I have done many times, the typical speed is 80+ mph. Similarly with I5 between Vancouver and Portland. Everyone drives at a realistic speed on wide, open highways. Yes, there are roving highway patrol cars with radar guns and the occasional one in a lay-by but unless you are being stupid racing along on your own, you will be fine. They are not looking to catch someone doing 71 mph just to boost their revenue as is the case in the UK. The one BIG problem with US interstates is undertaking - there is no law requiring you to move over out of the outside lane so you will get Huckleberry plodding along at 60 mph in the outside lane oblivious to everything around him for mile after mile.
I agree too about European autoroutes, Much more civilised with the police focusing on the idiots and not the ordinary driver who may be doing 150 kph in a 130 kph zone. 150 kph on the autoroutes is typical in France and, in many autobahn in Germany, there is no speed limit at all although, unfortunately, these open roads are diminishing in number. The police focus, correctly, on the N roads which are covered in radar cameras and police traps especially around villages.
However, the article is wrong about US interstates. There are no yellow vultures, no fixed radar traps, no incumbrance at all. Driving, for example, I10 between Houston and New Orleans, which I have done many times, the typical speed is 80+ mph. Similarly with I5 between Vancouver and Portland. Everyone drives at a realistic speed on wide, open highways. Yes, there are roving highway patrol cars with radar guns and the occasional one in a lay-by but unless you are being stupid racing along on your own, you will be fine. They are not looking to catch someone doing 71 mph just to boost their revenue as is the case in the UK. The one BIG problem with US interstates is undertaking - there is no law requiring you to move over out of the outside lane so you will get Huckleberry plodding along at 60 mph in the outside lane oblivious to everything around him for mile after mile.
I agree too about European autoroutes, Much more civilised with the police focusing on the idiots and not the ordinary driver who may be doing 150 kph in a 130 kph zone. 150 kph on the autoroutes is typical in France and, in many autobahn in Germany, there is no speed limit at all although, unfortunately, these open roads are diminishing in number. The police focus, correctly, on the N roads which are covered in radar cameras and police traps especially around villages.
I've driven extensively on American interstates, mostly in the South. And I have driven on UK motorways. I agree totally with the points made here. In the UK, the increasing use of overhead "yellow vultures" for average speed means that I, and I am sure many others, focus more on the speedometer rather than the road. Even with the dreaded cruise control on, I am unable to relax since I will be often crammed in with huge trucks on all sides. Consequently, even when I go off cruise, I am then forced to revert to worrying about both my speed and the trucks. Everyone is nose-to-tail 3 lanes across.
However, the article is wrong about US interstates. There are no yellow vultures, no fixed radar traps, no incumbrance at all. Driving, for example, I10 between Houston and New Orleans, which I have done many times, the typical speed is 80+ mph. Similarly with I5 between Vancouver and Portland. Everyone drives at a realistic speed on wide, open highways. Yes, there are roving highway patrol cars with radar guns and the occasional one in a lay-by but unless you are being stupid racing along on your own, you will be fine. They are not looking to catch someone doing 71 mph just to boost their revenue as is the case in the UK. The one BIG problem with US interstates is undertaking - there is no law requiring you to move over out of the outside lane so you will get Huckleberry plodding along at 60 mph in the outside lane oblivious to everything around him for mile after mile.
I agree too about European autoroutes, Much more civilised with the police focusing on the idiots and not the ordinary driver who may be doing 150 kph in a 130 kph zone. 150 kph on the autoroutes is typical in France and, in many autobahn in Germany, there is no speed limit at all although, unfortunately, these open roads are diminishing in number. The police focus, correctly, on the N roads which are covered in radar cameras and police traps especially around villages.
However, the article is wrong about US interstates. There are no yellow vultures, no fixed radar traps, no incumbrance at all. Driving, for example, I10 between Houston and New Orleans, which I have done many times, the typical speed is 80+ mph. Similarly with I5 between Vancouver and Portland. Everyone drives at a realistic speed on wide, open highways. Yes, there are roving highway patrol cars with radar guns and the occasional one in a lay-by but unless you are being stupid racing along on your own, you will be fine. They are not looking to catch someone doing 71 mph just to boost their revenue as is the case in the UK. The one BIG problem with US interstates is undertaking - there is no law requiring you to move over out of the outside lane so you will get Huckleberry plodding along at 60 mph in the outside lane oblivious to everything around him for mile after mile.
I agree too about European autoroutes, Much more civilised with the police focusing on the idiots and not the ordinary driver who may be doing 150 kph in a 130 kph zone. 150 kph on the autoroutes is typical in France and, in many autobahn in Germany, there is no speed limit at all although, unfortunately, these open roads are diminishing in number. The police focus, correctly, on the N roads which are covered in radar cameras and police traps especially around villages.
Instead of spending money to keep road workers safe by limiting speed. Couldn't we use the money to make drivers better at actually driving?
I don't think anyone I know that isn't into driving or cars could correct a slide or even knows what their abs and esp system does.
What a joke! I bet they know more about roadsigns than they do of actual driving dynamics.
Most people on this website could probably safely drive at 100 mph (given the space) past roadworks. I mean they are coned off and everything. Quite how the road workers are getting killed or injured through anything other than vehicle faults is beyond me. Are people really so dumb?
If everyone at the wheel was actually concentrating on the job of being at the wheel and not their iPhones etc we could have no speed limits as everyone would be concentrating at the business at hand. I've never had a crash in 10 years of driving and I have covered many many miles in that time in every type of vehicle. I have never pulled out of a road and into an oncoming boy racer doing 120 mph in a 30 because I'm actually aware of what is going on around me. Time people started doing the same and stopped fanny assing about trying to wrap everyone in cotton wool. If you have a crash for any reason than due to another person's error, or mechanical failure then you are an idiot and deserve to face the outcome of that.
I don't think anyone I know that isn't into driving or cars could correct a slide or even knows what their abs and esp system does.
What a joke! I bet they know more about roadsigns than they do of actual driving dynamics.
Most people on this website could probably safely drive at 100 mph (given the space) past roadworks. I mean they are coned off and everything. Quite how the road workers are getting killed or injured through anything other than vehicle faults is beyond me. Are people really so dumb?
If everyone at the wheel was actually concentrating on the job of being at the wheel and not their iPhones etc we could have no speed limits as everyone would be concentrating at the business at hand. I've never had a crash in 10 years of driving and I have covered many many miles in that time in every type of vehicle. I have never pulled out of a road and into an oncoming boy racer doing 120 mph in a 30 because I'm actually aware of what is going on around me. Time people started doing the same and stopped fanny assing about trying to wrap everyone in cotton wool. If you have a crash for any reason than due to another person's error, or mechanical failure then you are an idiot and deserve to face the outcome of that.
JoeMarano said:
Instead of spending money to keep road workers safe by limiting speed. Couldn't we use the money to make drivers better at actually driving?
I don't think anyone I know that isn't into driving or cars could correct a slide or even knows what their abs and esp system does.
What a joke! I bet they know more about roadsigns than they do of actual driving dynamics.
Most people on this website could probably safely drive at 100 mph (given the space) past roadworks. I mean they are coned off and everything. Quite how the road workers are getting killed or injured through anything other than vehicle faults is beyond me. Are people really so dumb?
If everyone at the wheel was actually concentrating on the job of being at the wheel and not their iPhones etc we could have no speed limits as everyone would be concentrating at the business at hand. I've never had a crash in 10 years of driving and I have covered many many miles in that time in every type of vehicle. I have never pulled out of a road and into an oncoming boy racer doing 120 mph in a 30 because I'm actually aware of what is going on around me. Time people started doing the same and stopped fanny assing about trying to wrap everyone in cotton wool. If you have a crash for any reason than due to another person's error, or mechanical failure then you are an idiot and deserve to face the outcome of that.
Speed limits in road works exist only partly due to the issue with the percentage of drivers on the road not being driving gods. The DMRB and UK standards dictate road speeds based on multiple factors, including setback to barriers. In the case of roadworks, they almost always operate in a narrow lane capacity, in order to maximise the available lane width for traffic. As you know, this is explained in TD19/06. With narrow lane running on a motorway, this typically forces the speed down to 50mph. Bearing in mind the working width of the barrier that sits between road users and the workforce will deflect circa 1.2-2m when hit, there's typically only 500mm left before a road worker is struck. Far from 'wrapping everyone in cotton wool', it's still not an ideal situation but we have to accept it.I don't think anyone I know that isn't into driving or cars could correct a slide or even knows what their abs and esp system does.
What a joke! I bet they know more about roadsigns than they do of actual driving dynamics.
Most people on this website could probably safely drive at 100 mph (given the space) past roadworks. I mean they are coned off and everything. Quite how the road workers are getting killed or injured through anything other than vehicle faults is beyond me. Are people really so dumb?
If everyone at the wheel was actually concentrating on the job of being at the wheel and not their iPhones etc we could have no speed limits as everyone would be concentrating at the business at hand. I've never had a crash in 10 years of driving and I have covered many many miles in that time in every type of vehicle. I have never pulled out of a road and into an oncoming boy racer doing 120 mph in a 30 because I'm actually aware of what is going on around me. Time people started doing the same and stopped fanny assing about trying to wrap everyone in cotton wool. If you have a crash for any reason than due to another person's error, or mechanical failure then you are an idiot and deserve to face the outcome of that.
As an example of what has happened in the past, despite our every effort to cater for the wide variety of driving talent on the roads:
A footbridge demolition onto the carriageway below. Junction to junction full closure, with a crash mat set in place to cushion the debris. A road user entered the carriageway by driving down the offslip i.e. the wrong way, and then drove down the main line, hit the crash mat, vaulted over it and crashed a couple of metres away from the site welfare cabin. It doesn't matter if we set up a full closure, there will always be somebody who knows better. We cannot assume everyone is a gifted racing driver. To answer your question, yes people really are so dumb on occasions.
Apologies for us 'fanny assing' as you put it, but the idea is that everyone goes home safely each day, including the workforce maintaining the roads. I appreciate you'd much rather speed limits weren't reduced so you get to your destination a few moments quicker, and the risk of road workers being killed increases, but is of little consequence because it doesn't affect the travelling public.
I'm not too fussed about about being slowed down to be honest. What bothers me more are average cameras working all day while there are no roadworks taking place and people's driving at 50mph is considerably worse than when they are doing 70.
I remember driving through a huge stretch of 50mph average roadworks on the North M25 a few years back and I wanted to take my own life after that experience. It was horrendous and felt terribly unsafe!
I remember driving through a huge stretch of 50mph average roadworks on the North M25 a few years back and I wanted to take my own life after that experience. It was horrendous and felt terribly unsafe!
fivepointnine said:
I feel I can make a point here. I lived the first 35 years of my life in the US and the last 2 here in the UK. I have also driven all over Europe, from Spain to Poland.
The UK has a wonderful motorway system, they are wide, plenty of services, well maintained, etc. I cannot figure out for the life of me how there are so many accidents. The traffic, for the most part (outside of the M25) is not *that* heavy. (if you want heavy, try driving the 405 through Los Angeles, 6 lanes per side of pure congestion).
People in the US (on the motorways at least) seem to move with much more of a sense of purpose, you will rarely, if ever see anyone plodding along at 50 in lane 1. Police will not pull you over unless you are around 10-15 over. On the west coast it was not uncommon during my drive from Seattle to Los Angeles to just set my cruise control at 85 and relax.
I will admit that lane discipline in the US is horrible, but once you accept it and accept that fact that you can pass on either side, you will get on just fine.
I do not know what the answers are, but I do know that the camera system is not very good, as most people know where they are, drive as fast as they can, slow down for the camera, then its right back to going fast. (Maybe adopt a system like Spain, etc where the camera's are somewhat hidden?)
The numbers don't agree.The UK has a wonderful motorway system, they are wide, plenty of services, well maintained, etc. I cannot figure out for the life of me how there are so many accidents. The traffic, for the most part (outside of the M25) is not *that* heavy. (if you want heavy, try driving the 405 through Los Angeles, 6 lanes per side of pure congestion).
People in the US (on the motorways at least) seem to move with much more of a sense of purpose, you will rarely, if ever see anyone plodding along at 50 in lane 1. Police will not pull you over unless you are around 10-15 over. On the west coast it was not uncommon during my drive from Seattle to Los Angeles to just set my cruise control at 85 and relax.
I will admit that lane discipline in the US is horrible, but once you accept it and accept that fact that you can pass on either side, you will get on just fine.
I do not know what the answers are, but I do know that the camera system is not very good, as most people know where they are, drive as fast as they can, slow down for the camera, then its right back to going fast. (Maybe adopt a system like Spain, etc where the camera's are somewhat hidden?)
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/...
http://vehicle-fatalities.findthedata.com/
Despite my impression of it (a few months commuting/day tripping around Houston followed by a trip to Washington and back and two weeks in California), America's pretty good, too.
mariscalcus said:
I agree too about European autoroutes, Much more civilised with the police focusing on the idiots and not the ordinary driver who may be doing 150 kph in a 130 kph zone. 150 kph on the autoroutes is typical in France and, in many autobahn in Germany, there is no speed limit at all although, unfortunately, these open roads are diminishing in number.
I'd disagree with a lot of this:-- French gendarmes ARE focusing a lot more on the autoroutes, and WILL stop people for minor transgressions - I've seen whole swathes of traffic doing at/around 130km/h because of this. It varies region by region, but that's the new norm in parts of France. The 'copper in a layby / central reservation with a radar gun' is far from uncommon'.
- Belgium is a bit of a joke. Poor driving standards, shocking road quality, loads of roadworks - like Britain on a bad day, only enlivened by the lower traffic density away from Brussels.
- Luxembourg and Germany are a breath of fresh air, I fully agree.
- Netherlands have great roads but some very variable driving standards...my first time there I was a passenger and permanently reaching for 'my' brake pedal as my driver and half the rest of the traffic were tailgating in full "Audi" mode!
- Italy I've only visited once, but it's exactly how you'd expect it to be...
fuelracer496 said:
A footbridge demolition onto the carriageway below. Junction to junction full closure, with a crash mat set in place to cushion the debris. A road user entered the carriageway by driving down the offslip i.e. the wrong way, and then drove down the main line, hit the crash mat, vaulted over it and crashed a couple of metres away from the site welfare cabin. It doesn't matter if we set up a full closure, there will always be somebody who knows better. We cannot assume everyone is a gifted racing driver. To answer your question, yes people really are so dumb on occasions.
M20 the other weekend?I mean...WTF?!?
(As an aside, my family* and I were among the poor sods stuck stationary on the M25 past Clacketts for over an hour two Fridays' ago while HATO's took their sweet time coning off >1 mile of M25 in the run up to the M26 split, rather than just coning off the last 100yds or so. I'd rather you didn't quote some inane ordinance at me, but is there any logical reason why the M26 entrance wasn't just closed off at that point, as it was a nice neat split? ...the gantries could have shown the red "X" in advance, after all...)
* Try comforting a young boy who's just woken up expecting to be at the grandparents and doesn't understand what's going on...then try rapidly putting said child back in his car seat while everyone else suddenly races off either side of you when the road finally DOES re-open...
Edited by havoc on Friday 16th September 08:51
fuelracer496 said:
The example I mentioned was last year, I don't have details about the M20 bridge strike the other week so cant really comment on how the closure was managed, apologies.
If you weren't there I wouldn't expect you to, but it really did strike me as a jobsworth using 'elf-n-safety-guvnor' as an excuse to justify pissing off a few thousand people for fun...I couldn't see any logic in it at all...Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff