RE: 3-door hot hatches are dead: Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
356Speedster said:
havoc said:
There is if you have a bad back - getting a baby/toddler into the back of a 5-door car with a badly-shaped door aperture is difficult enough, using a 3-door car is right out.
...and even if you can use a 3-door car, it depends on the ergonomics of the 3-door - I've seen a few where the front-seat belts get in the way, usually as a trip-hazard when trying to access the back. Oh, and then there's those 3-door cars (EP2/3 Civic take a bow!) where the quick-release front seat doesn't return the seat back to the same angle again when the seat is put back in place, meaning you need to adjust the front seat rake every time you access the back seats.
I disagree.... my back it ruined, I've been putting of a triple disc replacement for 10yrs (and am currently propped up on pain killer, after an "episode" ...and even if you can use a 3-door car, it depends on the ergonomics of the 3-door - I've seen a few where the front-seat belts get in the way, usually as a trip-hazard when trying to access the back. Oh, and then there's those 3-door cars (EP2/3 Civic take a bow!) where the quick-release front seat doesn't return the seat back to the same angle again when the seat is put back in place, meaning you need to adjust the front seat rake every time you access the back seats.
). Because of the approach angle, getting our baby in/out of our Focus ST (now departed) and Focus RS was a breeze. Just putting a seat belt on the little one with the 5-door Golf caused more pain because of the twisting that I had to do via the tiny rear door. The TT may look like a kiddy pain, but even that it is preferable to the Golf.Perhaps the Mk2 Focus is just a well designed car for rear access (I've not tried a Civic), but they've been fab cars with the little one and the Audi is just the same, which is great as there were no automobile sacrifices required for our wee family
DoubleD said:
What makes sense is buying the car that you like with the amount of doors that you like.
If you can find one. With fewer choices it becomes more difficult. I have been looking for over a year and not found one I like. I did at one point the Mazda 2 but I could not get past the 5 doors.The Integrale has been voted best-ever hot hatch in countless surveys and articles, and is 5 door only (yes the S4 was 2 door). The Integrale looked right with rear doors just as the Escort RS Cosworth looked right without. Future hot hatches can look good with 5 doors if the designers do a good job, as we know they can.
Things were a lot simpler back in the '80s/'90s when the hot hatch was at its peak. Manufacturers didn't have the range of cars they do now, and the roles of the models within a range was very simple. Generally, there were two models within their ranges that you could have "hot", Fiesta/Nova/205/R5/Uno and Escort/Astra/Golf/309/R19/Tipo and, on the whole, most were 3 doors. Only the larger cars offered the 5 door option (Golf, Tipo, Pug 309, R19 - which even came as a 4 door, the 19 Chamade 16v).
As more manufacturers expand into new niches, the role of the fast hatch has to be dual purpose I suppose. Many people who want a small(ish) fast car still need a degree of practicality at some point, and by not offering a practical alternative is commercially silly. I agree with previous posters, the older cars looked much better, and far sportier, as a 3 door (and still do in the case of the Fiesta ST and Pug 208GTi), but the bigger cars now suit the 5 doors better I feel. Golf GTI/R32/R from mk5 onwards and the Audi S3/RS3 are prime examples. I've owned a few myself, and one of the best was my 2005 SEAT Leon Cupra R 225, which only came as a 5 door. My current car, a Volvo C30 T5 is, I feel, too restrictive for me. I have parents/in-laws who struggle to get in the back, so I end up using our Jeep Grand Cherokee more and more. And we don't have kids that live at home, so its only my parter & I and little dog to worry about, but I still like the added bonus of having rear doors.
Its all horses for courses, and I suppose there will always be those who feel that history has dictated that a fast, sporty hatch must be 3 doors. However, for me, I wouldn't go back to a 3 door hot hatch, and so any manufacturer not at least offering a 5 door option wouldn't get my money now.
As more manufacturers expand into new niches, the role of the fast hatch has to be dual purpose I suppose. Many people who want a small(ish) fast car still need a degree of practicality at some point, and by not offering a practical alternative is commercially silly. I agree with previous posters, the older cars looked much better, and far sportier, as a 3 door (and still do in the case of the Fiesta ST and Pug 208GTi), but the bigger cars now suit the 5 doors better I feel. Golf GTI/R32/R from mk5 onwards and the Audi S3/RS3 are prime examples. I've owned a few myself, and one of the best was my 2005 SEAT Leon Cupra R 225, which only came as a 5 door. My current car, a Volvo C30 T5 is, I feel, too restrictive for me. I have parents/in-laws who struggle to get in the back, so I end up using our Jeep Grand Cherokee more and more. And we don't have kids that live at home, so its only my parter & I and little dog to worry about, but I still like the added bonus of having rear doors.
Its all horses for courses, and I suppose there will always be those who feel that history has dictated that a fast, sporty hatch must be 3 doors. However, for me, I wouldn't go back to a 3 door hot hatch, and so any manufacturer not at least offering a 5 door option wouldn't get my money now.
MrB. said:
As more manufacturers expand into new niches, the role of the fast hatch has to be dual purpose I suppose. Many people who want a small(ish) fast car still need a degree of practicality at some point, and by not offering a practical alternative is commercially silly.
Just because a hatch is a 3 door doesn't mean it loses all of it's practicality... The only bit thats going to be an issue is getting people in the back, and even then its just a case of folding the seats forward. I think there are more than enough 17-30 year olds willing to compromise on that slight loss in practicality for better looking car.
fezst said:
MrB. said:
As more manufacturers expand into new niches, the role of the fast hatch has to be dual purpose I suppose. Many people who want a small(ish) fast car still need a degree of practicality at some point, and by not offering a practical alternative is commercially silly.
Just because a hatch is a 3 door doesn't mean it loses all of it's practicality... The only bit thats going to be an issue is getting people in the back, and even then its just a case of folding the seats forward. I think there are more than enough 17-30 year olds willing to compromise on that slight loss in practicality for better looking car.
This seems to get debated every week on various forums now.
Personally, I would say I actually passionately hate 5 door cars... and I'm not even sure why really. I mean obviously it comes down to looks, but it really does pain me! Which is a frustrating as I have a baby on the way but am still resisting buying a 5 door lol. Although the missus is going to anyway.
It's a shame really because I adore the new Type-R; I love it's ballsiness... but if it came down to it I just couldn't buy it
Personally, I would say I actually passionately hate 5 door cars... and I'm not even sure why really. I mean obviously it comes down to looks, but it really does pain me! Which is a frustrating as I have a baby on the way but am still resisting buying a 5 door lol. Although the missus is going to anyway.
It's a shame really because I adore the new Type-R; I love it's ballsiness... but if it came down to it I just couldn't buy it
kayzee said:
This seems to get debated every week on various forums now.
Personally, I would say I actually passionately hate 5 door cars... and I'm not even sure why really. I mean obviously it comes down to looks, but it really does pain me! Which is a frustrating as I have a baby on the way but am still resisting buying a 5 door lol. Although the missus is going to anyway.
It's a shame really because I adore the new Type-R; I love it's ballsiness... but if it came down to it I just couldn't buy it
You're gonna buy a grande Picasso, just accept it Personally, I would say I actually passionately hate 5 door cars... and I'm not even sure why really. I mean obviously it comes down to looks, but it really does pain me! Which is a frustrating as I have a baby on the way but am still resisting buying a 5 door lol. Although the missus is going to anyway.
It's a shame really because I adore the new Type-R; I love it's ballsiness... but if it came down to it I just couldn't buy it
My big problem with all of this is that my olds somehow managed to get a small, unruly thing into cars that were much smaller than even a mid-range supermini, or a Golf/Focus estate, plus other stuff.
Now, clear the decks for a 1 bar supertanker - here comes little Bertrand & Milly
DukeDickson said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I'm quite happy that the new Civic Type-R is 5 door only as if there was a 3 door I would have wanted it, but I probably wouldn't have bought it as it would't have ticked quite as many boxes and wouldn't have been quite as brilliant at doing all the things it does.
5 door Hot Hatch : perfect car for 99% of the time IMHO
Aside from other reasons I wouldn't go there (even or maybe because having had an old school one), that's a secondary reason why I wouldn't buy one. However, that's also IMHO.5 door Hot Hatch : perfect car for 99% of the time IMHO
Again IMHO, but better to buy something that serves your modern purpose and something that's 100% than a not quite. However, never quite understood the do it all compromise.
fezst said:
Just because a hatch is a 3 door doesn't mean it loses all of it's practicality... The only bit thats going to be an issue is getting people in the back, and even then its just a case of folding the seats forward.
I think there are more than enough 17-30 year olds willing to compromise on that slight loss in practicality for better looking car.
Volkswagen recently solved that problem by removing the back seats.I think there are more than enough 17-30 year olds willing to compromise on that slight loss in practicality for better looking car.
DukeDickson said:
kayzee said:
This seems to get debated every week on various forums now.
Personally, I would say I actually passionately hate 5 door cars... and I'm not even sure why really. I mean obviously it comes down to looks, but it really does pain me! Which is a frustrating as I have a baby on the way but am still resisting buying a 5 door lol. Although the missus is going to anyway.
It's a shame really because I adore the new Type-R; I love it's ballsiness... but if it came down to it I just couldn't buy it
You're gonna buy a grande Picasso, just accept it Personally, I would say I actually passionately hate 5 door cars... and I'm not even sure why really. I mean obviously it comes down to looks, but it really does pain me! Which is a frustrating as I have a baby on the way but am still resisting buying a 5 door lol. Although the missus is going to anyway.
It's a shame really because I adore the new Type-R; I love it's ballsiness... but if it came down to it I just couldn't buy it
My big problem with all of this is that my olds somehow managed to get a small, unruly thing into cars that were much smaller than even a mid-range supermini, or a Golf/Focus estate, plus other stuff.
Now, clear the decks for a 1 bar supertanker - here comes little Bertrand & Milly
I guess it's literally only geared towards hot hatches that I hate. 5 door cars just aren't sporty looking imo, but when it's not trying to be, that's okay.
BaronVonVaderham said:
Actually, 5 door shells are preferred for motorsport as they are stiffer.
Firstly - Saloons, yes, because of the metal bracing behind the rear seats and secondly, motorsport shells share only the outer panels with the road going versions. They have welded-in cages, reinforced turrets and all manner of other reinforcing measures, so not really a valid comparison.Hatchbacks don't have the bracing behind the rear seats, so the stiffness of them is a moot point when comparing 3 to 5 door. They're both as floppy as each other on cornering loads.
There will always be a time when the 2 or 3 door offering is more appealing to a demographic. Personally small 2-door coupes have always been more appealing but I wouldn't say no to a 2-door hot hatch as a fun car, I am less likely to buy a 5-door one actually as I'd rather have an estate car for more practical use - a fast estate would trump a fast 5 door hatch any day of the week.
myhandle said:
The Integrale has been voted best-ever hot hatch in countless surveys and articles, and is 5 door only (yes the S4 was 2 door). The Integrale looked right with rear doors just as the Escort RS Cosworth looked right without. Future hot hatches can look good with 5 doors if the designers do a good job, as we know they can.
The integrale looks good despite being 5 door. It helps that the the Delta was an award winning design when it was launched in, I think, 1979.I always hated the fact that it has 5 doors, but is such a fantastic car I bought one anyway. The only 5 door I've ever owned.
SuperchargedVR6 said:
BaronVonVaderham said:
Actually, 5 door shells are preferred for motorsport as they are stiffer.
Firstly - Saloons, yes, because of the metal bracing behind the rear seats and secondly, motorsport shells share only the outer panels with the road going versions. They have welded-in cages, reinforced turrets and all manner of other reinforcing measures, so not really a valid comparison.Hatchbacks don't have the bracing behind the rear seats, so the stiffness of them is a moot point when comparing 3 to 5 door. They're both as floppy as each other on cornering loads.
I've also compared coupe to saloon, with the same result, the saloon was stiffer.
Obviously, other results are possible too,
DottyMR2 said:
It's what ruled a T bar MR2 out for me. I'd love to have a T bar for on the roads but with me wanting to do some racing in it at some point, pointless.
Wasn't the whiole point of T-top cars that you could swap between glass or metal panels according to how you felt on any given day?
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