Are E46 M3's fun?
Discussion
I'm obviously a wimp, as whenever I switch from something like a BMW M car into something more "hardcore" I realise that the M cars are very good all-rounders. They're very comfortable, but also capable of being fun when required. People say you'll have more fun in x if aren't restricted to just one car, but sometimes in my E39 M5 pootling around slowly and listening to the engine was quite fun and it wasn't even remotely hard work. I've somehow never managed to own an E46 M3 (I've had two E36 M3 Evos and two E39 M5s), but I can't imagine they'd be boring. Perhaps to those who insist on a Caterham for road use they may be boring, but I think I'd just find a Caterham a bit too much hard work on the road (on track however....).
ManOpener said:
n3il123 said:
rb5er said:
I can't say I rate the e46 m3 much. Gearboxes are terrible, steering average at best, feel very heavy, not that fast and make a horrid noise.
Not a fan then?I can't think of a contemporary equivalent (IE, two door, four seat, rear wheel drive coupé) of the E46 M3 that does "fun" more whilst remaining as usable or approachable, with the possible exception of the likes of the Monaro.
I'm not a brand snob and both of those manufacturers also have cars I do like very much but BMW manual gearboxes are pretty w
k and quite well known as such.Ali_T said:
SidewaysSi said:
I found the standard E46 M3 deathly dull to be honest. Too heavy with poor steering.
And not very fast. I looked at one when they were nearly new, expecting it to be amazing after all the journalistic hype, but it really felt like a slightly faster rep mobile and nothing special. The Monaro VXR I also looked at was far more enjoyable, and the C5 Corvette (standard, not Z06) felt far quicker. Mind you, I bought an RX8 instead of all of them so I probably paid far more money on fuel!CABC said:
SWoll said:
You bought an RX-8 rather than an E46 M3? Bless you. A friend had one at the same time as I had a 330i. A little better in the twisties but slower
Advantage RX-8 then?oil consumption can be managed if you know where the hood release is.
I'm pretty sure an E46 M3 would have outdone it in every measure anyway, which was my point.
Wife had an E46 325 convertible for a year then switched to an E46 M3 convertible. From a daily driver perspective she really couldn't tell the difference, hated the SMG gearbox (I didn't mind it). Only when you accelerated in a straight line did you really notice you were in an M3.
However, the performance difference between the convertible and the coupe is significant. The convertible feel a lot slower and rocks and rolls a bit without the roof holding it all together.
Nice car for road use, dealer maintenance expensive, don't even think about track use.
However, the performance difference between the convertible and the coupe is significant. The convertible feel a lot slower and rocks and rolls a bit without the roof holding it all together.
Nice car for road use, dealer maintenance expensive, don't even think about track use.
Bristol spark said:
So are the M3's a world of difference to the standard 3er, or just a faster 3 series?
I know they are relitivly fast in a straight line and sound good, but are they "fun" in the corners like the S2000?
My own opinion (which I realise goes against the PH collective opinion), is that unless you're really pushing on, the E46 M3 feels much like an E46 330ci, apart from sharper steering and a smaller DBW throttle lag. At normal legal road speeds there are very few clues that you're in an M3 to be honest. That's either a wonderful piece of engineering or a disappointment, depending on your viewpoint. Once you open up the engine it's obvious though (what an engine!), and once you start pushing it through the corners you can really feel the different rear diff working away. I test drove one a while ago when I owned a Z4C and needed a four door car. I much preferred it to the RS4 that I drove (dull, dull, dull), but I didn't really get either of them to be honest (and the general concept of a super saloon), and ended up just buying a normal 3 series for vastly less money and to enjoy vastly lower running costs. I do run another car for fun though...I know they are relitivly fast in a straight line and sound good, but are they "fun" in the corners like the S2000?
If I was in your shoes (and this is purely my own preferences talking), I'd either stick with the S2000 or swap it for a Boxster S. If you need four doors I'd recommend an Elise or Caterham and a more mundane but good handling four door, of which there are plenty to choose from.
Thanks guys, having read all your advice im thinking the M3 is not for me as a second vehicle.
Ive also done some measuring and the M3 is slightly too long to fit in my garage (along with everything else).
So time for a re-think.
I might keep the s2000 for a while and expand my budget for either a TVR Chimeara 450/500, Elise or perhaps maybe a VX220 Turbo?
My worry about the Elise is they are so low on power! (But i guess the lack of weight could make up?)
Knowing my luck the S2000 values will start plumering now!!
Ive also done some measuring and the M3 is slightly too long to fit in my garage (along with everything else).
So time for a re-think.
I might keep the s2000 for a while and expand my budget for either a TVR Chimeara 450/500, Elise or perhaps maybe a VX220 Turbo?
My worry about the Elise is they are so low on power! (But i guess the lack of weight could make up?)
Knowing my luck the S2000 values will start plumering now!!
Edited by Bristol spark on Saturday 24th September 15:48
Bristol spark said:
Thanks guys, having read all your advice im thinking the M3 is not for me as a second vehicle.
Ive also done some measuring and the M3 is slightly too long to fit in my garage (along with everything else).
So time for a re-think.
I might keep the s2000 for a while and expand my budget for either a TVR Chimeara 450/500, Elise or perhaps maybe a VX220 Turbo?
My worry about the Elise is they are so low on power! (But i guess the lack of weight could make up?)
Knowing my luck the S2000 values will start plumering now!!
I think you dodged a bullet - the M3 is nothing special. As for an Elise, there are plenty of models and they all feel different. Also they can be modified very easily so try a few and see what you like.Ive also done some measuring and the M3 is slightly too long to fit in my garage (along with everything else).
So time for a re-think.
I might keep the s2000 for a while and expand my budget for either a TVR Chimeara 450/500, Elise or perhaps maybe a VX220 Turbo?
My worry about the Elise is they are so low on power! (But i guess the lack of weight could make up?)
Knowing my luck the S2000 values will start plumering now!!
Edited by Bristol spark on Saturday 24th September 15:48
An Elise is also very different to an S2000 and will take some getting used to so beare that in mind - some are weekwnd blasters whikse some people use them daily.
As for power, I wouldn't worry - even a basic 120 bhp car is quick enough on the road.
But if you newd more, as said they can be modded. I have an S1 Sport 160 which is soon to get an ultra close ratio gearbox, lightweight flywheel and LSD and already has uprated suspension, brakes, a faster steering rack etc. Even with the standard box, 3 figures come up easily enough. But the handling and braking makes it a much faster car across the ground than you would imagine.
And of course if you like feel and communication, they are unsurpassed.
Thing is, as much as p/w ratio means that the elise's are still fast, chances are you'll always miss that extra power higher up the range on the road whereas you don't get to really take full advantage of the amount of feedback and grip they provide. just my 2c.. They're the epitome of the second sports car, but not everyones cuppa.
nunpuncher said:
Don't get the convertible though, it's like a different car and it's st.
bt.ks. Sure, it's not quite as tight as the coupe and it's a little heavier. For road use though it's got something that more than makes up for it, when the sun's out and the roof's down you get to hear that glorious soundtrack. I deliberately bought a vert and I fking love it.antacid said:
Thing is, as much as p/w ratio means that the elise's are still fast, chances are you'll always miss that extra power higher up the range on the road whereas you don't get to really take full advantage of the amount of feedback and grip they provide. just my 2c.. They're the epitome of the second sports car, but not everyones cuppa.
yep, they're a second car. But if you've ever driven one you'll know it's the first second car you'll need to own. M3s have half the sensory feedback of an Elise, Porsches have a lot more and Audi TTs are just left in the wine bar car park. All the journos write of any car as it would be your only one. Acknowledge the compromise and position within a multi-car fleet and the assessments would be different. The op wants a w/end car...
the viable alternative to feedback and handling would be charismatic power, such as TVR or Morgan. On balance i'd put my raw power into a daily and sensory handling into a weekend ride.
rb5er said:
I like the elise and exige a lot but even the Exige S didn't feel that quick to me. Feedback yes brilliant but not a car that is very playful or silly fast. Depends if it's a 2nd car that gets used on road or track.
I think that's very fair, yes. I've driven lots of Elises and Exiges and none of them have felt fast, no. They're not that playful either compared to something like a Caterham. They are utterly amazing cars though in terms of their feedback and driver involvement. My 2-Eleven felt very quick, but that's a whole different budget.Mine has been fantastic. Best car I have owned. Have a Miltek midpipe, 12mm spacers and eibachs all round.
Maintenance has been expensive IMHO. It needs to be maintained and don't skimp on it.
Very rewarding car and one that a lot of people find difficult to replace or keep coming back to.
I know of one guy who has had five E46 M3's. He keeps coming back to them.
The engine and all round experience every time I turn the key makes it a difficult decision to part with it.
Mines Silver Grey, full red imola leather and a manual. Very desirable combo I am told.
Maintenance has been expensive IMHO. It needs to be maintained and don't skimp on it.
Very rewarding car and one that a lot of people find difficult to replace or keep coming back to.
I know of one guy who has had five E46 M3's. He keeps coming back to them.
The engine and all round experience every time I turn the key makes it a difficult decision to part with it.
Mines Silver Grey, full red imola leather and a manual. Very desirable combo I am told.
Edited by HannsG on Sunday 25th September 15:35
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