Mobile phone use while driving
Discussion
There are some things I've never been sure about. I'm in Scotland in case it makes any difference:
1) If my phone is in a cradle/holder fixed to the dashboard, can I basically do whatever I want with it, as long as I don't pick it up? Can I play angry birds and post nonsense on PistonHeads while at a red light with a police car sat next to me? Can I press buttons on Google maps navigation while crawling in traffic?
2) How stationary do I need to be in order to pick up my phone and use it freely? Is it OK to be parked at the side of the road with the engine on? Or engine off but key in the ignition? What about sitting in my driveway with the engine on?
3) While driving (either moving or red light), am I allowed to take my phone out of my pocket and put it in the cradle, as long as I don't actually press any buttons?
1) If my phone is in a cradle/holder fixed to the dashboard, can I basically do whatever I want with it, as long as I don't pick it up? Can I play angry birds and post nonsense on PistonHeads while at a red light with a police car sat next to me? Can I press buttons on Google maps navigation while crawling in traffic?
2) How stationary do I need to be in order to pick up my phone and use it freely? Is it OK to be parked at the side of the road with the engine on? Or engine off but key in the ignition? What about sitting in my driveway with the engine on?
3) While driving (either moving or red light), am I allowed to take my phone out of my pocket and put it in the cradle, as long as I don't actually press any buttons?
Thanks but that's very vague and doesn't answer my questions.
eg:
Is pulling my phone out of my pocket and sticking it in the cradle considered "using" it?
"Safely parked" - Could a police officer say I'm not safely parked if the key is in the ignition (like when you're drunk and sitting in the car with the key)
And the most vague of all is their description of "hands free". If I want to change navigation settings on the phone, I would use my hands. Is that still considered hands-free because it's in a cradle?
eg:
Is pulling my phone out of my pocket and sticking it in the cradle considered "using" it?
"Safely parked" - Could a police officer say I'm not safely parked if the key is in the ignition (like when you're drunk and sitting in the car with the key)
And the most vague of all is their description of "hands free". If I want to change navigation settings on the phone, I would use my hands. Is that still considered hands-free because it's in a cradle?
Sect 41(d) RTA 1988 / sect 110 c & u regs
110. (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using
(a) a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b) a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).
(2) No person shall cause or permit any other person to drive a motor vehicle on a road while that other person is using
(a) a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b) a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).
(3) No person shall supervise a holder of a provisional licence if the person supervising is using
(a) a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b) a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4), at a time when the provisional licence holder is driving a motor vehicle on a road.
(4) A device referred to in paragraphs (1)(b), (2)(b) and (3)(b) is a device, other than a two-way radio, which performs an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data.
(5) A person does not contravene a provision of this regulation if, at the time of the alleged contravention
(a) he is using the telephone or other device to call the police, fire, ambulance or other emergency service on 112 or 999;
(b) he is acting in response to a genuine emergency; and
(c) it is unsafe or impracticable for him to cease driving in order to make the call (or, in the case of an alleged contravention of paragraph (3)(b), for the provisional licence holder to cease driving while the call was being made).
(6) For the purposes of this regulation
(a) a mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function;
(b) a person supervises the holder of a provisional licence if he does so pursuant to a condition imposed on that licence holder prescribed under section 97(3)(a) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (grant of provisional licence);
(c) “interactive communication function” includes the following:
(i) sending or receiving oral or written messages;
(ii) sending or receiving facsimile documents;
(iii) sending or receiving still or moving images; and
(iv) providing access to the internet;
(d) “two-way radio” means any wireless telegraphy apparatus which is designed or adapted
(i) for the purpose of transmitting and receiving spoken messages; and
(ii) to operate on any frequency other than 880 MHz to 915 MHz, 925 MHz to 960 MHz, 1710 MHz to 1785 MHz, 1805 MHz to 1880 MHz, 1900 MHz to 1980 MHz or 2110 MHz to 2170 MHz; and
(e) “wireless telegraphy” has the same meaning as in section 19(1) of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949(3).”
A device is deemed to be hand-held if it is actually held or must be held at some point during the course of performing an interactive function. This concept includes making or receiving a call, sending or receiving a text, surfing the internet etc.
In cases where the Crown are not in a position to prove usage of a mobile phone whilst driving, then Section 41D(a) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 creates a linked offence as to not driving a motor vehicle in a position which does not give proper control or a full view of the road and traffic ahead, or causing and permitting such an offence. This charge would be appropriate in cases where a driver is distracted by something, such as a mobile telephone or even the car stereo, thereby affecting his ability to control the vehicle.
110. (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using
(a) a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b) a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).
(2) No person shall cause or permit any other person to drive a motor vehicle on a road while that other person is using
(a) a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b) a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).
(3) No person shall supervise a holder of a provisional licence if the person supervising is using
(a) a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b) a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4), at a time when the provisional licence holder is driving a motor vehicle on a road.
(4) A device referred to in paragraphs (1)(b), (2)(b) and (3)(b) is a device, other than a two-way radio, which performs an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data.
(5) A person does not contravene a provision of this regulation if, at the time of the alleged contravention
(a) he is using the telephone or other device to call the police, fire, ambulance or other emergency service on 112 or 999;
(b) he is acting in response to a genuine emergency; and
(c) it is unsafe or impracticable for him to cease driving in order to make the call (or, in the case of an alleged contravention of paragraph (3)(b), for the provisional licence holder to cease driving while the call was being made).
(6) For the purposes of this regulation
(a) a mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function;
(b) a person supervises the holder of a provisional licence if he does so pursuant to a condition imposed on that licence holder prescribed under section 97(3)(a) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (grant of provisional licence);
(c) “interactive communication function” includes the following:
(i) sending or receiving oral or written messages;
(ii) sending or receiving facsimile documents;
(iii) sending or receiving still or moving images; and
(iv) providing access to the internet;
(d) “two-way radio” means any wireless telegraphy apparatus which is designed or adapted
(i) for the purpose of transmitting and receiving spoken messages; and
(ii) to operate on any frequency other than 880 MHz to 915 MHz, 925 MHz to 960 MHz, 1710 MHz to 1785 MHz, 1805 MHz to 1880 MHz, 1900 MHz to 1980 MHz or 2110 MHz to 2170 MHz; and
(e) “wireless telegraphy” has the same meaning as in section 19(1) of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949(3).”
A device is deemed to be hand-held if it is actually held or must be held at some point during the course of performing an interactive function. This concept includes making or receiving a call, sending or receiving a text, surfing the internet etc.
In cases where the Crown are not in a position to prove usage of a mobile phone whilst driving, then Section 41D(a) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 creates a linked offence as to not driving a motor vehicle in a position which does not give proper control or a full view of the road and traffic ahead, or causing and permitting such an offence. This charge would be appropriate in cases where a driver is distracted by something, such as a mobile telephone or even the car stereo, thereby affecting his ability to control the vehicle.
Terzo123 said:
They key terms are handheld and using.
If it's in a cradle it's not handheld. Putting a phone in a cradle is not using it, however if it impacts on your driving then you could be charged with a Sect 3.
Hand-held could also refer to the type of device the phone is, thus being in a cradle or not, it would in theory be illegal to use it.If it's in a cradle it's not handheld. Putting a phone in a cradle is not using it, however if it impacts on your driving then you could be charged with a Sect 3.
R E S T E C P said:
There are some things I've never been sure about. I'm in Scotland in case it makes any difference:
1) If my phone is in a cradle/holder fixed to the dashboard, can I basically do whatever I want with it, as long as I don't pick it up? Can I play angry birds and post nonsense on PistonHeads while at a red light with a police car sat next to me? Can I press buttons on Google maps navigation while crawling in traffic?
2) How stationary do I need to be in order to pick up my phone and use it freely? Is it OK to be parked at the side of the road with the engine on? Or engine off but key in the ignition? What about sitting in my driveway with the engine on?
3) While driving (either moving or red light), am I allowed to take my phone out of my pocket and put it in the cradle, as long as I don't actually press any buttons?
1. You would avoid the specific mobile phone legislation if it's not hand-held. However, the same penalty applies if you are 'not in proper control.' In some cases, it may be careless or even dangerous driving. Pressing buttons on Google maps whilst moving is 'not in proper control' in my view. 1) If my phone is in a cradle/holder fixed to the dashboard, can I basically do whatever I want with it, as long as I don't pick it up? Can I play angry birds and post nonsense on PistonHeads while at a red light with a police car sat next to me? Can I press buttons on Google maps navigation while crawling in traffic?
2) How stationary do I need to be in order to pick up my phone and use it freely? Is it OK to be parked at the side of the road with the engine on? Or engine off but key in the ignition? What about sitting in my driveway with the engine on?
3) While driving (either moving or red light), am I allowed to take my phone out of my pocket and put it in the cradle, as long as I don't actually press any buttons?
2. If you are safely parked then then engine can be running. DFT, 2003 - "We accept the view that it is unnecessary for a vehicle to be parked with the engine switched off in order to avoid prosecution."
3. There's a Scottish High Court authority on this point - Brocklebank. However, there's still a risk of 'not being in proper control' - which is not dependent on using a hand-held device.
agtlaw said:
2. If you are safely parked then then engine can be running. DFT, 2003 - "We accept the view that it is unnecessary for a vehicle to be parked with the engine switched off in order to avoid prosecution."
Admittedly, they do not specifically refer to a layby by way of an example, but the wording within that document is far from unambiguous.DfT in 2003 said:
We consider that drivers should not use hand-held phones while at traffic lights or during short hold-ups that may occur during a typical journey. However, we accept the view that it is unnecessary for a vehicle to be parked with the engine switched off in order to avoid prosecution. Under existing law a person may be regarded as "driving" a vehicle while the engine is running and the vehicle is stationary. We consider this satisfactory for the purposes of this offence and will not therefore include a new definition of "driving" in the regulation.
We propose that the new regulation should apply in all circumstances other than when the vehicle was parked and with the engine off. This would mean that the prohibition would apply even if a vehicle was paused at traffic lights or stopped in a temporary traffic jam or in very slow moving traffic.
We propose that the new regulation should apply in all circumstances other than when the vehicle was parked and with the engine off. This would mean that the prohibition would apply even if a vehicle was paused at traffic lights or stopped in a temporary traffic jam or in very slow moving traffic.
devnull said:
Using waze in a cradle on a phone (i.e. tapping a touch screen) vs using the touchscreen sat nav built into the car. Little difference!
Rule 150There is a danger of driver distraction being caused by in-vehicle systems such as satellite navigation systems, congestion warning systems, PCs, multi-media, etc. You MUST exercise proper control of your vehicle at all times.
In other words, don't dick about with your sat nav either.
Number three.
I stopped a bloke driving a lorry last year for using a phone, clear as day, could see his fingers tapping away. He denied it and went to court. In court he said that he wasn't using it, but putting it back in the cradle after it fell out. The magistrates found him guilty.
I stopped a bloke driving a lorry last year for using a phone, clear as day, could see his fingers tapping away. He denied it and went to court. In court he said that he wasn't using it, but putting it back in the cradle after it fell out. The magistrates found him guilty.
If phone is in cradle then not hand held, can press buttons etc. risk prosecution for not in proper control or a section 3 careless, but not a mobile phone offence.
Driving - do you need a licence to be where you are ? If at traffic lights etc. you need a licence to be in charge of the car, so you cannot hold and use phone. Rough rule of thumb, if the engine is on, the phone should be off. You're driving, not parked. You might not be moving, but you are in charge of direction or propulsion, so driving.
Finally, it's not an offence to hold a phone, but it is to use it. However expect police to charge you and bring it to court and allege inferred use.
Driving - do you need a licence to be where you are ? If at traffic lights etc. you need a licence to be in charge of the car, so you cannot hold and use phone. Rough rule of thumb, if the engine is on, the phone should be off. You're driving, not parked. You might not be moving, but you are in charge of direction or propulsion, so driving.
Finally, it's not an offence to hold a phone, but it is to use it. However expect police to charge you and bring it to court and allege inferred use.
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