Cars That Are Ageing Badly

[SWoll]

They're competing with the 3 Series/C-Class (XE) and 5 Series/E-Class (XF) so of course that's the case. They still have the XJ to compete further up the corporate ladder..

[Willlll]

2010....

[Jimmy Recard]

Willlll said:

2010....

We had a rental one in South Africa in 2007 (I think). I thought it was a nice looking car.

Now it looks much older than it is, to me. That must be the best measure of a car aging badly

[je777]

The faddier the design, the quicker it ages.
The Evoque in about two years.

[Nickbrapp]

SWoll said:

I've just ordered a new XF as a company car purely because of it's clean lines and lack of silly surfaces. Far too much fussy detailing with most cars these days, I find it very elegant personally.

Looks good in black from the front but the rear of the mk1 was so much better this is just square

[Nickbrapp]

SWoll said:

I've just ordered a new XF as a company car purely because of it's clean lines and lack of silly surfaces. Far too much fussy detailing with most cars these days, I find it very elegant personally.

Looks good in black from the front but the rear of the mk1 was so much better this is just square

[fatboy b]

Trabi601 said:

fatboy b said:

As a Jag owner, I'm not feeling the love for the XE or New XF yet.

Jag do like the pure surfaces and not the creased surfaces that have blighted Mercs and BMWs , but the new XF has lost the Jag characteristics.

The original XF was when Jaguar lost Jaguar characteristics. Everything since could have come from Japan or Korea.

Right you are then

[kambites]

For me "it could have come from Korea" is a complement these days; the Koreans are producing the best looking mainstream cars on the market at the moment, IMO.

[Trabi601]

kambites said:

For me "it could have come from Korea" is a complement these days; the Koreans are producing the best looking mainstream cars on the market at the moment, IMO.

That may be the case, but Jaguars just don't look like Jaguars anymore.

Mercedes, BMW, Audi and VW have designs which evolve the family identity. The recent Jaguars have no design links to Jaguars of the past.

I find this really strange, as Land Rover are very keen to exploit past design clues in their modern designs. They are still very identifiable as Land Rover products.

[kambites]

Given how shockingly ugly most current BMWs and Mercedes are, I struggle to see this as a bad thing.

[J4CKO]

Trabi601 said:

kambites said:

For me "it could have come from Korea" is a complement these days; the Koreans are producing the best looking mainstream cars on the market at the moment, IMO.

That may be the case, but Jaguars just don't look like Jaguars anymore.

Mercedes, BMW, Audi and VW have designs which evolve the family identity. The recent Jaguars have no design links to Jaguars of the past.

.

Jaguar ploughed that furrow ad nauseum, the X Type, S Type and various XJ's, but they couldnt keep just selling cars to retired Colonels and other assorted trilby wearers, they needed a complete break from the remix of 1970 XJ and 60s S type styling.


The XF isnt exactly beautiful, but it is a hell of an improvement on the S Type it replaced, the only S Type owner I have known was an old, very posh woman, it was light metallic blue and stank of fags, and gin. I cnt imagine many < 55s bought them, but see lots of XF's with younger people driving them.

[SWoll]

Trabi601 said:

That may be the case, but Jaguars just don't look like Jaguars anymore.

Which is exactly why they still exist as a company and people like me will order one. Unfortunately many of Jaguars historic styling cues are very much at odds with modern design and customer tastes. They proved this when attempting to move into the smaller exec sector with the X and S-type.

Don't agree with the Korean comment either. Yes, they don't look like the Germans but instead have found their own style which as I say above I find very elegant as I do with most of Callum's efforts.

[Trabi601]

J4CKO said:

Jaguar ploughed that furrow ad nauseum, the X Type, S Type and various XJ's, but they couldnt keep just selling cars to retired Colonels and other assorted trilby wearers, they needed a complete break from the remix of 1970 XJ and 60s S type styling.


The XF isnt exactly beautiful, but it is a hell of an improvement on the S Type it replaced, the only S Type owner I have known was an old, very posh woman, it was light metallic blue and stank of fags, and gin. I cnt imagine many < 55s bought them, but see lots of XF's with younger people driving them.

See, I'm their target audience, but wouldn't have one, because they don't look like a Jaguar. Without looking like a Jag, they have to be every bit as good as BMW etc., but they're not, so the only reason to choose one has now been removed.

One thing that appeals about my 5 series is that it's visually a BMW.

Jaguar made the mistake of replicating past shapes, rather than a progressive evolution - which is why they ended up with a blank sheet of paper and tearing up links to their heritage.

[SWoll]

Trabi601 said:

See, I'm their target audience, but wouldn't have one, because they don't look like a Jaguar. Without looking like a Jag, they have to be every bit as good as BMW etc., but they're not, so the only reason to choose one has now been removed.

One thing that appeals about my 5 series is that it's visually a BMW.

Jaguar made the mistake of replicating past shapes, rather than a progressive evolution - which is why they ended up with a blank sheet of paper and tearing up links to their heritage.

But you aren't the target audience that they want, or need, to buy their cars in order to do well. That's the whole point.

The new XF is regarded as the best drivers car in it's class. It also has the best ride quality and arguably the best infotainment system when spec'd with the new Touch Pro. I've come from a succession of 5 series and have jumped ship as for me the XF offers something different and is a better car in areas that really matter to me. I also find it better looking than the current German offerings.

[Europa1]

SWoll said:

But you aren't the target audience that they want, or need, to buy their cars in order to do well. That's the whole point.

The new XF is regarded as the best drivers car in it's class. It also has the best ride quality and arguably the best infotainment system when spec'd with the new Touch Pro. I've come from a succession of 5 series and have jumped ship as for me the XF offers something different and is a better car in areas that really matter to me. I also find it better looking than the current German offerings.

Amen to that.

[Trabi601]

SWoll said:

But you aren't the target audience that they want, or need, to buy their cars in order to do well. That's the whole point.

The new XF is regarded as the best drivers car in it's class. It also has the best ride quality and arguably the best infotainment system when spec'd with the new Touch Pro. I've come from a succession of 5 series and have jumped ship as for me the XF offers something different and is a better car in areas that really matter to me. I also find it better looking than the current German offerings.

• shrugs*

We'll have to agree to disagree. I still find the (very old now) 5 series to be the best overall package in the class - as do many reviews.

Take the badges off any of the current range and you'd struggle to identify the maker. That isn't good in a market where the competition has a visual identity regardless of badges.

[kambites]

Trabi601 said:

Take the badges off any of the current range and you'd struggle to identify the maker. That isn't good in a market where the competition has a visual identity regardless of badges.

I suppose that depends on whether you view "brand identity" as important.

[jamieduff1981]

Trabi601 said:

J4CKO said:

Jaguar ploughed that furrow ad nauseum, the X Type, S Type and various XJ's, but they couldnt keep just selling cars to retired Colonels and other assorted trilby wearers, they needed a complete break from the remix of 1970 XJ and 60s S type styling.


The XF isnt exactly beautiful, but it is a hell of an improvement on the S Type it replaced, the only S Type owner I have known was an old, very posh woman, it was light metallic blue and stank of fags, and gin. I cnt imagine many < 55s bought them, but see lots of XF's with younger people driving them.

See, I'm their target audience, but wouldn't have one, because they don't look like a Jaguar. Without looking like a Jag, they have to be every bit as good as BMW etc., but they're not, so the only reason to choose one has now been removed.

One thing that appeals about my 5 series is that it's visually a BMW.

Jaguar made the mistake of replicating past shapes, rather than a progressive evolution - which is why they ended up with a blank sheet of paper and tearing up links to their heritage.

If the Jag is inferior to the BMW because it lacks the current BMW's confidence reducing steering, relatively laggy throttle and lumpy ride quality, then you're right.

If you actually like a sporting saloon in its original sense - that is to say, a saloon car that's generally better to drive than other saloon cars, then Jaguar are back to their roots.

Nobody is making you buy one, or even like them, but to say they're not as good as BMW only marks you out as someone who would rather fk about with an iDrive menu than enjoy the drive which is fine, but Jag's current line up is for people more in to driving than infotainment centres and VED bandings.

[SWoll]

Trabi601 said:

SWoll said:

But you aren't the target audience that they want, or need, to buy their cars in order to do well. That's the whole point.

The new XF is regarded as the best drivers car in it's class. It also has the best ride quality and arguably the best infotainment system when spec'd with the new Touch Pro. I've come from a succession of 5 series and have jumped ship as for me the XF offers something different and is a better car in areas that really matter to me. I also find it better looking than the current German offerings.

• shrugs*

We'll have to agree to disagree. I still find the (very old now) 5 series to be the best overall package in the class - as do many reviews.

Take the badges off any of the current range and you'd struggle to identify the maker. That isn't good in a market where the competition has a visual identity regardless of badges.

Like I say I have the current 5 and as an overall package it probably is the better car. Doesn't drive as well or look as nice though IMHO and I can put up with the drop in interior quality as a trade off.

I think with the XE, XF, XJ and F-pace they now have a very strong brand identity that more and more people are buying into. These things do take a considerable amount of time to cultivate though. Mercedes are having a similar issue with their latest designs as they have lost some of their traditional cues as well.

[anonymous-user]

I was behind some grey Kia Carens yesterday and thought of this thread. I'd assumed it was something old, it looked like a car from the late 90s early 00s and the drab colour didn't help. I was very surprised to see it was a brand new car, it looks very dated indeed to my eye.