Cars That Are Ageing Badly

Cars That Are Ageing Badly

Author
Discussion

av185

18,433 posts

126 months

Monday 26th September 2016
quotequote all
Willlll said:
2010....

Ah yes.....the back of Arfer Daleys lockup.

Those little flags have dated almost as much as that little 'vehicle'.

Truly hideous.

Toyoda

1,557 posts

99 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
It's funny you mention the Kia Sportage as I saw a new Suzuki Vitara in the metal yesterday and from the rear/side it reminded me of the already old fashioned look of the Sportage above. Just look at that clumsy front overhang.



r11co

6,244 posts

229 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
bluemason said:
r11co said:
Yes, I'm perfectly aware of that. What I am saying was that their design language was wrong, and it took some entreprenurial aftermarketeers to put it right.
The controversial, kidney grill for me is what really ages the 3 series of that generation.
yes

Even worse on the 6 series as they didn't have the excuse of splitting it across the bonnet shut-line.

BMW obviously learned as they back-tracked on the LCI model.

Again, though, the aftermarket came to the rescue.

Edited by r11co on Tuesday 27th September 12:34

burritoNinja

690 posts

99 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
Sat behind a Toyota Corrollo this morning. Looked about maybe 2000/02? Really old looking and just looks cheap. Couple of Rover 75's mark 1 are looking very old too.

Triumph Man

8,670 posts

167 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
av185 said:
Willlll said:
2010....

Ah yes.....the back of Arfer Daleys lockup.

Those little flags have dated almost as much as that little 'vehicle'.

Truly hideous.
Coming soon to the front of a 45mph line of traffic with a dodgy personalised number plate and an oap barry driver.

David87

Original Poster:

6,648 posts

211 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
r11co said:


And at a stroke the problem has gone!
Time for me to don my anorak once again, but these lamps aren't aftermarket, as such. They are called Darkline lamps and are an official BMW part, which are indeed so much nicer than the standard ones! They used to do them for a bunch of different models, but unsure if they still do for the current lineup.

oilspill

649 posts

192 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all
JMo22 said:
BMW i8 - saw one the other day from rear 3/4 and just thought it looked incredibly dated. Never understand why car manufacturers think electric/hybrid cars need to look different to petrol cars (usually just for the sake of it), thought Tesla had shown that is the wrong approach.
The two BMWs are built with Carbon fibre, they have very different body units and construction, perhaps this set the tone?

Wasn't Teslas's 'correct approach' Lotus based? The Model S being 'regular' looking is surely why BMW would consider capturing a different buyer. They're turning their existing saloons into Hybrids anyway, so why cover the i3 and i8 carbon tubs with regular panels matching the rest of their range?


JMo22 said:
Ha..me too!

To the guy who says it doesn't look dated. The front has a bit of BMW Z1 about it to me and the rest is just some marketing guy's idea of what a "hybrid" should look like. It's from the Homer Simpson school of car design.

Beyond the styling the plug-in hybrid technology is horribly dated already too. £104k before options for 0-60 in 4.4 secs and the worst of both petrol and electric technology. No thanks!
Marketing is far more involved than a 'guy' having an 'idea' . They would picture then research their target market before designing the car.

I agree the i8 has an old-school looking front nose, but that was obviously intentional, not an 'aging' unfriendly design flaw. This also contradicts your idea that they 'thinkl' it needs to look different. I think you just hate the car.

I dont know how dated their plug-in technology is, except didnt they use an existing motorcycle engine? again intentional without I imagine worrying about the ageing process.

Do you know what the margin is on the i8's price before slating it? Elon Musk aspires for 25-28% mark-up, on the build cost, which is very fair. I doubt the i8's is much over 30%, I would guess the mark-up is in the other direction.
4.4 seconds isnt bad, it's not as if they could install the Model S's battery pack in there. Unless of course they just copied the Model S which would have been ridiculous marketing. . Incidentally the pre-facelift Model S is already considered dated looking in some quarters inc many owners. The ugly nose cone in particular receiving attention from after-market stylists.

We've been presented with futuristic looking petrol concept cars for half a century, often in a suggestive way that it's the future. Maybe BMW offering us 2 concept-faithful cars is actually clever marketing?
either way, if the i models had been released with V8 engines installed and no batteries, the majority of Phrs would've w****d themselves silly

Maybe you subscribe to the notion that your Porsche 911 is a timeless design smile in which case it would be understandable you hate the i8.

The spanner in the works of some of your criticism is that Chris Harris gave it a very good review. even enjoying the serenity of electric only power around town. The silence of an EV being a massive stigma on these forums which will see them criticised until the ICE's dying day. laugh

Edited by oilspill on Wednesday 28th September 04:08

gizlaroc

17,251 posts

223 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all
Trabi601 said:
See, I'm their target audience, but wouldn't have one, because they don't look like a Jaguar.
They don't look like an old Jaguar.

I think the range has a very recognisable look of Jag to them now.

Trabi601 said:
Without looking like a Jag, they have to be every bit as good as BMW etc., but they're not, so the only reason to choose one has now been removed.
The only area where BMW had it beat was infotainment, I am a die hard BMW fan and have had every 5 series since the E34, but held my hands up that the XF had it licked for driver enjoyment. As BMW moved into more toys and a softer ride with decent MPG figures Jaguar started to make the drivers choice car where dynamics came first.

Now the new infotainment system is in there too, well....BMW needs to replace the F10 pretty quickly imho.

The F10 is still a fine car, but the 5 Series has always won the crown for best drivers car, but not at the moment.

Fox-

13,228 posts

245 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all
gizlaroc said:
Now the new infotainment system is in there too, well....BMW needs to replace the F10 pretty quickly imho.
It's end of production next month, how much quicker do you want? Exactly 7 years after the E60 ended production. Which was exactly 7 years after the E39 ended production......

About to be consigned to the history books and STILL a better car than the 'all new' XF in almost every way. Jaguar really need to step up their game.

Trabi601

4,865 posts

94 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all
gizlaroc said:
Trabi601 said:
See, I'm their target audience, but wouldn't have one, because they don't look like a Jaguar.
They don't look like an old Jaguar.

I think the range has a very recognisable look of Jag to them now.

Trabi601 said:
Without looking like a Jag, they have to be every bit as good as BMW etc., but they're not, so the only reason to choose one has now been removed.
The only area where BMW had it beat was infotainment, I am a die hard BMW fan and have had every 5 series since the E34, but held my hands up that the XF had it licked for driver enjoyment. As BMW moved into more toys and a softer ride with decent MPG figures Jaguar started to make the drivers choice car where dynamics came first.

Now the new infotainment system is in there too, well....BMW needs to replace the F10 pretty quickly imho.

The F10 is still a fine car, but the 5 Series has always won the crown for best drivers car, but not at the moment.
I think the big question is what proportion of the market value driver enjoyment over the rounded package offered by BMW?

The A6 arguably has better interior quality, the E class is probably a smoother ride, and the XF may be sharper to drive. But the overall package of the F10 still makes it the best all-round proposition for many of those wanting a car in this class. The G10 could well blow everyone else away, as it's supposed to be a shrunken 7 - and the 'new' 7 is exceptional.

I was never a BMW fan, never even looked at them when buying my own cars - couldn't see what a 3 series offered over a Passat, for example. Then I had a few demonstrators and it all 'clicked' with me. I'd be reluctant to have anything else now.


Löyly

17,990 posts

158 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all
Toyoda said:
It's funny you mention the Kia Sportage as I saw a new Suzuki Vitara in the metal yesterday and from the rear/side it reminded me of the already old fashioned look of the Sportage above. Just look at that clumsy front overhang.

It doesn't look anymore ungainly than the rest of the SUV competition.

gizlaroc

17,251 posts

223 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all
Fox- said:
It's end of production next month, how much quicker do you want? Exactly 7 years after the E60 ended production. Which was exactly 7 years after the E39 ended production......

About to be consigned to the history books and STILL a better car than the 'all new' XF in almost every way. Jaguar really need to step up their game.
Fox, I know you are BMW through and though, so am I mate, and I know the F10 is at the end of its life, my point was, BMW have always been top dog in this sector even when others have brought out their 'newer' model, but think this time they are ready for a replacement.

I went from a Merc S212 E350 into an F11 and felt it had lost a lot of what makes a BMW feel so great in some way, the F11 was comfier, easier to drive etc. but not as dynamic, so much so that this time round I bought another Merc. Not saying the Merc is more dynamic or anything like that, but if I want comfort the Merc does do it better.

The difference between my E61 535d and my S211 E320cdi was massive, the difference between the F11 and S212 was marginal, with the Merc offering 7 seats and a hell of a lot more load space.
Don't get me wrong, I would happily have an F11 535i or 550i Touring again, love 'em. But do feel BMW have lost some of the rawness that appealed so much and was the reason I got into them.

SWoll

18,207 posts

257 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all
gizlaroc said:
The only area where BMW had it beat was infotainment, I am a die hard BMW fan and have had every 5 series since the E34, but held my hands up that the XF had it licked for driver enjoyment. As BMW moved into more toys and a softer ride with decent MPG figures Jaguar started to make the drivers choice car where dynamics came first.
Agree on the dynamics but the BMW F10 interior is noticeably better quality both in materials and build than the XF.