2000 E39 M5 as a daily. Man maths level ...?
Discussion
Thought it was about time I posted/rambled in RC.
I'd been looking for a car to replace my Z4 Coupe (which I wasn't in love with) for around 6 months (pro-tip, don't buy a hard top version of a car you already own, even if more powerful - you'll lose one of the best bits of the experience). I knew the engine had to be "interesting". This then developed into the idea of owning a V8 whilst I still had the chance (and, what the hell, fuel's cheap at the moment
). At the same time the car needed a tad more practical as a daily commuter. RWD was preferred, and I don't think I'm yet ready for an auto at 24 (otherwise it may well have been an XJR).
The market at <£12k manual V8 cars is basically a Monaro or an E39 M5. After scaring myself with transmission and rust stories on Monaros (it's one thing that puts me off a car immediately), it was to be an M5. Not quite sure how I managed to persuade myself it was more practical than an '06 Z4 but man maths is one hell of a drug...
After seeing a few, I found one at a dealer in February for a smidge under £11k with ~85k on the clock. Some haggling and a part ex later, and I'd bought (in other eyes) a 16 year old land yacht in granddad silver.
With some February mud:
It arrived with all the mod cons appropriate for a car of its standing in 2000 - a tape deck with BMW's old 4:3 postage stamp satellite navigation, 6 CD changer in the boot (which didn't work), and a wired Motorola car phone in the arm rest.
So, within a couple of weeks I'd fitted a Dynavin N6 to bring the ICE up to an more modern level. All I can say is, it's not worth £500. The iPod support is poor as it's ludicrously slow, a touch screen is a crap interface, and particularly so when it's as unresponsive as this. Still, the navigation works well, and the music player works ok with a Micro SD. It also integrates very well into the look of the car (even if the included mount was pants).
In a similar vain, I decided that it was a bit too quiet. Sophisticated, yes, but no-one's thinking a 24 year old driving a 16 year old BMW is sophisticated, so onto exhausts. Originally, I was going to go Supersprint, then at the last minute, went Schmiedmann (Danish BMW specialist, who are really quite good - buy a lot of my parts from them) for about half the price. Giggle inducing sound, but not too loud. Ish. Well...
At 1,500 rpm it drones like Marvin from Hitchiker's which does rather mean some strange gear-swapping games to stay away from that magic number! Bonus though, above 1,500 rpm it sounds glorious, and so no motorway drone which I know is the normal complaint with something like the muffler delete. Below 1,500 rpm it's near silent, so thank f
k it's got tons of low down shove so you can get away with 30 mph in 6th and not sound like a tit...
That engine though. Couldn't wipe the smile off my face for weeks (grinning away like a lunatic now just writing about it
).
What really surprised me, and became apparent very quickly is how much better balanced it is than the Z4. Maybe it's because you're sitting right over the rear axle in a Z4, or maybe it's the difference an LSD makes, but the M5 is so easy to adjust with throttle and slide about a bit without becoming as unwieldy as its weight and size would suggest. I enjoy it down back roads more than the Z4 any day of the week.
One last picture for now, with the Schmiedmann and after a really good polish and coat of Collinite (which is still doing a great job 6 months later). Next update, the road gets expensive!
I'd been looking for a car to replace my Z4 Coupe (which I wasn't in love with) for around 6 months (pro-tip, don't buy a hard top version of a car you already own, even if more powerful - you'll lose one of the best bits of the experience). I knew the engine had to be "interesting". This then developed into the idea of owning a V8 whilst I still had the chance (and, what the hell, fuel's cheap at the moment
). At the same time the car needed a tad more practical as a daily commuter. RWD was preferred, and I don't think I'm yet ready for an auto at 24 (otherwise it may well have been an XJR).The market at <£12k manual V8 cars is basically a Monaro or an E39 M5. After scaring myself with transmission and rust stories on Monaros (it's one thing that puts me off a car immediately), it was to be an M5. Not quite sure how I managed to persuade myself it was more practical than an '06 Z4 but man maths is one hell of a drug...
After seeing a few, I found one at a dealer in February for a smidge under £11k with ~85k on the clock. Some haggling and a part ex later, and I'd bought (in other eyes) a 16 year old land yacht in granddad silver.
With some February mud:
It arrived with all the mod cons appropriate for a car of its standing in 2000 - a tape deck with BMW's old 4:3 postage stamp satellite navigation, 6 CD changer in the boot (which didn't work), and a wired Motorola car phone in the arm rest.
So, within a couple of weeks I'd fitted a Dynavin N6 to bring the ICE up to an more modern level. All I can say is, it's not worth £500. The iPod support is poor as it's ludicrously slow, a touch screen is a crap interface, and particularly so when it's as unresponsive as this. Still, the navigation works well, and the music player works ok with a Micro SD. It also integrates very well into the look of the car (even if the included mount was pants).
In a similar vain, I decided that it was a bit too quiet. Sophisticated, yes, but no-one's thinking a 24 year old driving a 16 year old BMW is sophisticated, so onto exhausts. Originally, I was going to go Supersprint, then at the last minute, went Schmiedmann (Danish BMW specialist, who are really quite good - buy a lot of my parts from them) for about half the price. Giggle inducing sound, but not too loud. Ish. Well...
At 1,500 rpm it drones like Marvin from Hitchiker's which does rather mean some strange gear-swapping games to stay away from that magic number! Bonus though, above 1,500 rpm it sounds glorious, and so no motorway drone which I know is the normal complaint with something like the muffler delete. Below 1,500 rpm it's near silent, so thank f
k it's got tons of low down shove so you can get away with 30 mph in 6th and not sound like a tit...That engine though. Couldn't wipe the smile off my face for weeks (grinning away like a lunatic now just writing about it
). What really surprised me, and became apparent very quickly is how much better balanced it is than the Z4. Maybe it's because you're sitting right over the rear axle in a Z4, or maybe it's the difference an LSD makes, but the M5 is so easy to adjust with throttle and slide about a bit without becoming as unwieldy as its weight and size would suggest. I enjoy it down back roads more than the Z4 any day of the week.
One last picture for now, with the Schmiedmann and after a really good polish and coat of Collinite (which is still doing a great job 6 months later). Next update, the road gets expensive!
Edited by _Marvin on Wednesday 21st September 23:39
_Marvin said:
The market at <£12k manual V8 cars is basically a Monaro or an E39 M5. After scaring myself with transmission and rust stories on Monaros (it's one thing that puts me off a car immediately), it was to be an M5.
I guess you can't have done much reading about M5's then.
Looks in good shape, think you've got the best colour
. They do sound good with an exhaust, my milltek is similar in that it doesn't sound the best between about 1.5k-2k but glorious everywhere else.Is that piano black trim or the normal silver?
Did you consider the BMW widescreen nav + intravee? I've seen some people are also starting to put current BMW nav into E39s, looks great but a bit pricy. Will be interested in that if I ever finish all the other jobs I want to get done first.
http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/115687-woah-f10-idri...
Congratulations. It's all the car you'll ever need.
Any rust bubbling through around the boot/rear numberplate lights/fuel filler/jacking points? They all do that, Sir.
Join the Facebook "E39 M5 Owners Group". The cult following and level of forensic understanding the passionate owners have means that advice is available on any and every possible issue.
Any rust bubbling through around the boot/rear numberplate lights/fuel filler/jacking points? They all do that, Sir.
Join the Facebook "E39 M5 Owners Group". The cult following and level of forensic understanding the passionate owners have means that advice is available on any and every possible issue.
Love the look of the pre-facelift cars. Pre facelift headlights are hard to come by too, because everyone fitted facelifts! Instead of the Dynavin I would have installed a mk4 (late model) nav computer and the widescreen display. All pretty much plug and play. But I am a stickler for OEM. You can also install an interface that allows iPod connectivity with full track name display into the factory unit, should you ever decide to go down that route.
chris116 said:
_Marvin said:
The market at <£12k manual V8 cars is basically a Monaro or an E39 M5. After scaring myself with transmission and rust stories on Monaros (it's one thing that puts me off a car immediately), it was to be an M5.
I guess you can't have done much reading about M5's then.
Hereward said:
Congratulations. It's all the car you'll ever need.
Any rust bubbling through around the boot/rear numberplate lights/fuel filler/jacking points? They all do that, Sir.
Join the Facebook "E39 M5 Owners Group". The cult following and level of forensic understanding the passionate owners have means that advice is available on any and every possible issue.
Join request sent!Any rust bubbling through around the boot/rear numberplate lights/fuel filler/jacking points? They all do that, Sir.
Join the Facebook "E39 M5 Owners Group". The cult following and level of forensic understanding the passionate owners have means that advice is available on any and every possible issue.
chris116 said:
I guess you can't have done much reading about M5's then.
chris116 said:
Looks in good shape, think you've got the best colour . They do sound good with an exhaust, my milltek is similar in that it doesn't sound the best between about 1.5k-2k but glorious everywhere else.
I think the car was pretty much a weekend/road trip car. First time I lifted the rear seat I found a number coins of different currencies, and the previous owner (3rd owner) had owned it for 13 years, doing about 3-4k a year. Sounds like the Milltek is similar to the Schmiedmann then - although it tends to be about 1,100 to 1,500 rpm which means I tend to leave it in a lower gear than necessary.. They do sound good with an exhaust, my milltek is similar in that it doesn't sound the best between about 1.5k-2k but glorious everywhere else.chris116 said:
Is that piano black trim or the normal silver?
It came with the normal Titan trim, which had seen better days, so I wrapped it with gloss black wrap. Sadly the imperfections still show through, so have tried several other trim sets, but I think I've settled on a leather trim, got some genuine leather waiting to go on.chris116 said:
Did you consider the BMW widescreen nav + intravee? I've seen some people are also starting to put current BMW nav into E39s, looks great but a bit pricy. Will be interested in that if I ever finish all the other jobs I want to get done first.
Funny you should mention that. I'm working through everything I've done with the car since February, we're on about March at the moment, so you'll see...Hereward said:
Congratulations. It's all the car you'll ever need.
Any rust bubbling through around the boot/rear numberplate lights/fuel filler/jacking points? They all do that, Sir.
Thankfully not afflicting my car yet, it's remarkably solid. Just a touch of rust bubbling under the paint on the leading edge of the offside rear wheel arch, which I had sorted last week.Any rust bubbling through around the boot/rear numberplate lights/fuel filler/jacking points? They all do that, Sir.
Hereward said:
Join the Facebook "E39 M5 Owners Group". The cult following and level of forensic understanding the passionate owners have means that advice is available on any and every possible issue.
Thanks for the pointer, will request a join tonight. 
JakeT said:
Love the look of the pre-facelift cars. Pre facelift headlights are hard to come by too, because everyone fitted facelifts! Instead of the Dynavin I would have installed a mk4 (late model) nav computer and the widescreen display. All pretty much plug and play. But I am a stickler for OEM. You can also install an interface that allows iPod connectivity with full track name display into the factory unit, should you ever decide to go down that route.
Ah, in which case you may not like everything that's coming, but I had an Intravee on the Z4 and it's an absolute marvel.Lovely car, but being an E39 it can rust anywhere, not just the wings. I've had 8 years worth of E39 experience and been active on the BMW and PH forums for a long time. Common E39 rust areas:
Sills
Jacking points (take the covers off to have a look)
Bootlid
Bootlid partition (between bootlid and bumper)
Sills
Arches (from the inside out)
Bonnet
Doors
It can hide rust well and by the time it reaches the surface and is visible it's normally a lot worse underneath. I spent a lot of money on rust prevention and repair and neither of mine were ever 100% clear.
Sills
Jacking points (take the covers off to have a look)
Bootlid
Bootlid partition (between bootlid and bumper)
Sills
Arches (from the inside out)
Bonnet
Doors
It can hide rust well and by the time it reaches the surface and is visible it's normally a lot worse underneath. I spent a lot of money on rust prevention and repair and neither of mine were ever 100% clear.
sparks_E39 said:
Lovely car, but being an E39 it can rust anywhere, not just the wings. I've had 8 years worth of E39 experience and been active on the BMW and PH forums for a long time. Common E39 rust areas:
Sills
Jacking points (take the covers off to have a look)
Bootlid
Bootlid partition (between bootlid and bumper)
Sills
Arches (from the inside out)
Bonnet
Doors
It can hide rust well and by the time it reaches the surface and is visible it's normally a lot worse underneath. I spent a lot of money on rust prevention and repair and neither of mine were ever 100% clear.
Mine looked lovely on the outside, only a bit of rust on the rear panel under the number plate, however the underside was just falling apart. Jacking points non existent and under all the plastic trim under the car was holes so big you could see all the wiring.Sills
Jacking points (take the covers off to have a look)
Bootlid
Bootlid partition (between bootlid and bumper)
Sills
Arches (from the inside out)
Bonnet
Doors
It can hide rust well and by the time it reaches the surface and is visible it's normally a lot worse underneath. I spent a lot of money on rust prevention and repair and neither of mine were ever 100% clear.
They love to rot. Shame as it was otherwise the perfect car for me.
Well, there are a few more rust hotspots than I was initially aware of. Thankfully, (due to blind luck?) mine is in very nice condition from a rust perspective - the only rust I've found being a tiny amount of surface rust on the OSR wheel arch, which I've had sorted. I've had the wheel arch liners, and many of the plastic undertrays off, and nothing lurking that I've seen so far. Boot lid and area are in top condition too - I've had that all apart for various projects already so am very familiar with that part of the car. I guess, as this one was kept in London from a very early age (P/O bought at under 3 years old and kept for 13 years) and used infrequently it's had a sheltered existence from the salt and weather.
Thank you all for the information there, plenty to keep a watchful eye on.
Part 2 of the log to follow shortly.
Thank you all for the information there, plenty to keep a watchful eye on.
Part 2 of the log to follow shortly.
An update! Focused on the interior.
One of the things that I read as common to M cars of this era was the crap design BMW used for the anti-glare rear-view mirror causing failures (including some interesting leakage stories...). Well, this one was no exception (though thankfully hadn't dispersed its contents over the interior), and judging by how bad it was, I figured it needed to go pronto. Cue MirrorJohn ( mirrorjohn.com), and a little slicing (including the obligatory slip into one's hand), soldering and gluing, and I had a mirror which should be good for a little while again. Picture to show just how far gone the old one was:
Next up, I bought new a new shortened weighted gear knob (I believe the US guys refer to them as a ZHP). No illumination, but it improves the shift quality, which after the Z4 felt a bit notchy. I read that you can use the knob from the F10 M5 (in the US, where you can still get a manual), but I was less enthusiastic about the cost. Anyway, new gaiter to go with it, which I sourced from a shop on ebay.
Whilst I was at the leather, my original steering wheel was rather tired. I got the impression that the previous owner wore a ring or two, and so the top of the wheel (from around 10 o'clock - 2 o'clock) was badly scored and damaged. I was originally going to send it off to Royal Steering Wheels as so many people have great experiences with Jack, but as this is a daily I couldn't really be without the wheel for too long. So I found a company in Germany that was trimming wheels and selling them complete. Found a nice full leather design with perforated hand grips, in the pre-facelift style. Word of warning - E39's had two different airbag systems, depending on year. I forgot in my excitement, and was rather puzzled when the wheel arrived to find a completely different slip ring arrangement. Sent it back, and got a new wheel, but sadly, I had to settle for a facelift. Having now used it for some time, I think I preferred the controls on the old wheel, but I do see what people mean when they say the new wheel gives a better vision of the dials.
Lastly, I needed to replace the Dynavin. Looking around, I found that people have successfully integrated the NBT iDrive into E-series cars, even as far back as the E38 and E39 with the IBUS. Some research later and basically it comes down to getting the required parts either new from BMW or from a breakers as you'd expect, making up a loom for the various connections, plus an emulator to convert the new bus signals into the old IBUS messages. There's also some coding. As I seem to be incapable of getting INPA, DIS/SSS et al working I thought it best to purchase from one of the various specialists who do the conversion. I settled on Germaniks, in Ireland (in fact, the lead image for the E39/IBUS kit is my car...). Mick is a very helpful and knowledgeable guy, and put up with my inane and endless questions, coming back quickly whilst I was installing it all.
One of the things Germaniks can supply is a screen bezel which fits the E39 perfectly, so I went for the full kit, including touch controller, DAB and the screen bezel. The space in the E39 is large enough to take the larger 10" screen, whereas the E46 can only take the smaller 8".
Installation is relatively straightforward, as Mick makes up a loom with cabling long enough for the touch controller to fit in the centre console (it replaces the compartment with the sliding door), and for the microphone cable to run up the A-pillar and into the roof lining (mine has a microphone from the factory in the panel with the sunroof control). There's now very little behind the dash, as the screen is about an inch thick, and the CD drive is attached to the radio, and so is in the boot. Not an issue for me, I use an iPod for my music collection, but could be annoying for some. The only other issue with it is that there are no hard controls for the radio other than the steering wheel. You can fit the control panel from an F10, as the emulator has a ribbon cable to connect to it, but as that's also in the boot it's a moot point really.
The iDrive head unit uses relatively standard FAKRA connectors for GPS, bluetooth and DAB radio antennas, so aftermarket parts can be used (supplied by Mick), which not only keeps costs down, but are made for universal installation. I mounted the GPS antenna next to the original one under the parcel shelf, the bluetooth antenna on the C-pillar, and the DAB antennas on the black portions beneath the roof lining on the front and rear windscreens.
With it all in place, the result looks something like this:
It absolutely stuns me still how well this works - it's exactly as if it's in an F10. Even better, the High OBD still works and integrates correctly with it too. The original rear parking sensors work perfectly too, including the image that comes up, and what's more, I've been able to connect a reversing camera (I used one that integrates with the boot release handle).
Apparently, it can also support BMW's Connected Drive with the separate telematics box and a valid VIN to use for the subscription (basically, a wrecked car), which I'll get around to doing at some stage for RTTI.
Another thing I'm impressed with it the quality of the E39's interior. Comparing it with the Z4 is pointless - it's so much better in the E39. I've now had the kick panels, rear seats, parcel shelf, C-pillar covers, B-pillar covers and more off, and not a single broken clip or part, and it's all gone back together beautifully. I can't say quite the same about the door cards, the clips are a bit cack, but thankfully a large supply is cheap for when they inevitably break.
Anyway, with the interior spruced up and modernised, the time has come to have a look at the oily bits, which will be in the next update.
One of the things that I read as common to M cars of this era was the crap design BMW used for the anti-glare rear-view mirror causing failures (including some interesting leakage stories...). Well, this one was no exception (though thankfully hadn't dispersed its contents over the interior), and judging by how bad it was, I figured it needed to go pronto. Cue MirrorJohn ( mirrorjohn.com), and a little slicing (including the obligatory slip into one's hand), soldering and gluing, and I had a mirror which should be good for a little while again. Picture to show just how far gone the old one was:
Next up, I bought new a new shortened weighted gear knob (I believe the US guys refer to them as a ZHP). No illumination, but it improves the shift quality, which after the Z4 felt a bit notchy. I read that you can use the knob from the F10 M5 (in the US, where you can still get a manual), but I was less enthusiastic about the cost. Anyway, new gaiter to go with it, which I sourced from a shop on ebay.
Whilst I was at the leather, my original steering wheel was rather tired. I got the impression that the previous owner wore a ring or two, and so the top of the wheel (from around 10 o'clock - 2 o'clock) was badly scored and damaged. I was originally going to send it off to Royal Steering Wheels as so many people have great experiences with Jack, but as this is a daily I couldn't really be without the wheel for too long. So I found a company in Germany that was trimming wheels and selling them complete. Found a nice full leather design with perforated hand grips, in the pre-facelift style. Word of warning - E39's had two different airbag systems, depending on year. I forgot in my excitement, and was rather puzzled when the wheel arrived to find a completely different slip ring arrangement. Sent it back, and got a new wheel, but sadly, I had to settle for a facelift. Having now used it for some time, I think I preferred the controls on the old wheel, but I do see what people mean when they say the new wheel gives a better vision of the dials.
Lastly, I needed to replace the Dynavin. Looking around, I found that people have successfully integrated the NBT iDrive into E-series cars, even as far back as the E38 and E39 with the IBUS. Some research later and basically it comes down to getting the required parts either new from BMW or from a breakers as you'd expect, making up a loom for the various connections, plus an emulator to convert the new bus signals into the old IBUS messages. There's also some coding. As I seem to be incapable of getting INPA, DIS/SSS et al working I thought it best to purchase from one of the various specialists who do the conversion. I settled on Germaniks, in Ireland (in fact, the lead image for the E39/IBUS kit is my car...). Mick is a very helpful and knowledgeable guy, and put up with my inane and endless questions, coming back quickly whilst I was installing it all.
One of the things Germaniks can supply is a screen bezel which fits the E39 perfectly, so I went for the full kit, including touch controller, DAB and the screen bezel. The space in the E39 is large enough to take the larger 10" screen, whereas the E46 can only take the smaller 8".
Installation is relatively straightforward, as Mick makes up a loom with cabling long enough for the touch controller to fit in the centre console (it replaces the compartment with the sliding door), and for the microphone cable to run up the A-pillar and into the roof lining (mine has a microphone from the factory in the panel with the sunroof control). There's now very little behind the dash, as the screen is about an inch thick, and the CD drive is attached to the radio, and so is in the boot. Not an issue for me, I use an iPod for my music collection, but could be annoying for some. The only other issue with it is that there are no hard controls for the radio other than the steering wheel. You can fit the control panel from an F10, as the emulator has a ribbon cable to connect to it, but as that's also in the boot it's a moot point really.
The iDrive head unit uses relatively standard FAKRA connectors for GPS, bluetooth and DAB radio antennas, so aftermarket parts can be used (supplied by Mick), which not only keeps costs down, but are made for universal installation. I mounted the GPS antenna next to the original one under the parcel shelf, the bluetooth antenna on the C-pillar, and the DAB antennas on the black portions beneath the roof lining on the front and rear windscreens.
With it all in place, the result looks something like this:
It absolutely stuns me still how well this works - it's exactly as if it's in an F10. Even better, the High OBD still works and integrates correctly with it too. The original rear parking sensors work perfectly too, including the image that comes up, and what's more, I've been able to connect a reversing camera (I used one that integrates with the boot release handle).
Apparently, it can also support BMW's Connected Drive with the separate telematics box and a valid VIN to use for the subscription (basically, a wrecked car), which I'll get around to doing at some stage for RTTI.
Another thing I'm impressed with it the quality of the E39's interior. Comparing it with the Z4 is pointless - it's so much better in the E39. I've now had the kick panels, rear seats, parcel shelf, C-pillar covers, B-pillar covers and more off, and not a single broken clip or part, and it's all gone back together beautifully. I can't say quite the same about the door cards, the clips are a bit cack, but thankfully a large supply is cheap for when they inevitably break.
Anyway, with the interior spruced up and modernised, the time has come to have a look at the oily bits, which will be in the next update.
If you don't want to keep the car looking 100% stock, the NBT route is definitely the way to go. I believe there are still one or two minor software issues, but I'm sure they will be sorted out. So much better than any of the 'bespoke' E39 head units out there which are just cheap Chinese units with a bespoke fascia bolted on.
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