Alfa Guilia lease costs. You're aavin' a larf, mate.

[Wills2]

confused_buyer said:

It's not the depreciation but the fact that Alfa appear not to be giving massive discounts off list in the first place which allows cheap lease deals.

BMW are giving 20% off 3-Series at the moment and Mercedes nearer 25%. If Alfa are actually selling them for the asking price then the prices will be more.

Of course Alfa could argue they are making a lot more per car so aren't as concerned about volume at this stage.

The entire segment is based on volume, this car is their volume play, if they think they'll get volume through emotion they have missed judged the market IMHO.

[confused_buyer]

Wills2 said:

The entire segment is based on volume, this car is their volume play, if they think they'll get volume through emotion they have missed judged the market IMHO.

I don't know how it is selling generally but maybe the UK's allocation just isn't that great at the moment.

As more volume comes available no doubt they will start chasing sales.

[daemon]

confused_buyer said:

Wills2 said:

The entire segment is based on volume, this car is their volume play, if they think they'll get volume through emotion they have missed judged the market IMHO.

I don't know how it is selling generally but maybe the UK's allocation just isn't that great at the moment.

As more volume comes available no doubt they will start chasing sales.

They didnt with the 159. Lease and PCP deals were always uncompetitive.

[confused_buyer]

daemon said:

They didnt with the 159. Lease and PCP deals were always uncompetitive.

I don't know what the planned production of the Guilia is. Alfa is an incredibly small company - they only sell about 60k cars a year in all of Europe. Maybe they're not setup or planning to make as many as we think?

[Wills2]

confused_buyer said:

daemon said:

They didnt with the 159. Lease and PCP deals were always uncompetitive.

I don't know what the planned production of the Guilia is. Alfa is an incredibly small company - they only sell about 60k cars a year in all of Europe. Maybe they're not setup or planning to make as many as we think?

Sergio Marchionne's plan is well known, he needs/wants to get to 500,000 units worldwide for the Alfa brand, that 60k number is their current global sales (then again 90% of the sales come from Europe).

[generationx]

Giulia will be built at a new Giulia-only factory and from what I understand, as RHD is only four territories, they'll be concentrating on LHD deliveries first. I think it'll be a while before they become commonplace in the UK.

I drove the 180bhp diesel AND the QV this week. They drive really nicely.

I realise this sounds like an advert, but I have no connection to Alfa. I have ordered one though...

[kambites]

Did anyone really believe Alfa wouldn't find some way to shoot themselves in the foot?

Hopefully they'll manage to sell some in countries which are less finanace-obsessed than here.

[daemon]

Wills2 said:

confused_buyer said:

daemon said:

They didnt with the 159. Lease and PCP deals were always uncompetitive.

I don't know what the planned production of the Guilia is. Alfa is an incredibly small company - they only sell about 60k cars a year in all of Europe. Maybe they're not setup or planning to make as many as we think?

Sergio Marchionne's plan is well known, he needs/wants to get to 500,000 units worldwide for the Alfa brand, that 60k number is their current global sales (then again 90% of the sales come from Europe).

Indeed. And hes not going to achieve that with uncompetitive leasing and PCP deals.

[Granfondo]

Wouldn't make much difference how cheap they make the monthlies in the badge snob culture we have!

[jamies30]

Alfa Romeo isn't meant to be a budget brand, though. In the good old days, you paid a (justified) premium for them - I believe a Montreal was more expensive than an E-Type, in their day. Granted they've lost their way a little in recent years, so things like the MiTo had to take a more down-market "never mind the quality, feel the width" approach.

So maybe the folks who just want the most prestige for their leasing pound will stick with the same marques as they have for the last 20 years, and maybe Alfa Romeo finally has an alternative that is worth the extra cost, albeit to a smaller number of people. Might not be a bad thing.

[Granfondo]

jamies30 said:

Alfa Romeo isn't meant to be a budget brand, though. In the good old days, you paid a (justified) premium for them - I believe a Montreal was more expensive than an E-Type, in their day. Granted they've lost their way a little in recent years, so things like the MiTo had to take a more down-market "never mind the quality, feel the width" approach.

So maybe the folks who just want the most prestige for their leasing pound will stick with the same marques as they have for the last 20 years, and maybe Alfa Romeo finally has an alternative that is worth the extra cost, albeit to a smaller number of people. Might not be a bad thing.

:

Most people will be scratching their head and wondering what you have been smoking!
It's all about the monthlies innit.

[confused_buyer]

generationx said:

Giulia will be built at a new Giulia-only factory and from what I understand, as RHD is only four territories, they'll be concentrating on LHD deliveries first. I think it'll be a while before they become commonplace in the UK.

I think it is made in the old FIAT 124 factory.

Production only started at the end of April and Italy, being Italy, they probably shut down for most of August so it is quite possible Alfa UK haven't actually got any cars to sell yet in any numbers.

There is no point in offering silly lease deals to shift cars if you haven't actually got any yet to shift.

[wal 45]

jamies30 said:

Alfa Romeo isn't meant to be a budget brand, though. In the good old days, you paid a (justified) premium for them - I believe a Montreal was more expensive than an E-Type, in their day. Granted they've lost their way a little in recent years, so things like the MiTo had to take a more down-market "never mind the quality, feel the width" approach.

So maybe the folks who just want the most prestige for their leasing pound will stick with the same marques as they have for the last 20 years, and maybe Alfa Romeo finally has an alternative that is worth the extra cost, albeit to a smaller number of people. Might not be a bad thing.

Interesting point and as someone who has a couple of Alfa at the moment I'd like to see them do well. The point though has been made so many times it is the dealers themselves that will strongly contribute to kill the opportunity Guilia presents, really needs ARUK to weed out the dross and replace them with people who actually care (like the Alfa indies).

I detest going anywhere near my local dealer, it is an unpleasant and frankly hateful experience that I only do when I am forced to buy spares. My latest "experience" was yesterday, pull in and had a salesman put a cone in the one parking (customer) space that was free just as I was about to park. No apology, no explanation just a smirk and he walked away. I was driving a 61 plate 159 and I'm exactly the sort of person who would be in the market to buy a Guilia, sort of sums up the shoddiness that is our local dealer.

If I was a BMW/Audi or even Toyota owner I would have just turned round and go Alfa you've had your chance now I'm going back to sales people who actually treat potential customers as exactly that. I hear the same story over and over about our local dealer, guess the Jeep and Abarth franchises keeps them more occupied...

Good luck Alfa but I do feel for the first time owners attracted out of their "premium" marques by the Quadrifoglio hype only to have to put up with the kind of service I always seem to get. Thank goodness for Alfa Workshop, Autolusso and all the other Alfa indies that do actually make Alfa ownership pleasurable.

[daemon]

Granfondo said:

jamies30 said:

Alfa Romeo isn't meant to be a budget brand, though. In the good old days, you paid a (justified) premium for them - I believe a Montreal was more expensive than an E-Type, in their day. Granted they've lost their way a little in recent years, so things like the MiTo had to take a more down-market "never mind the quality, feel the width" approach.

So maybe the folks who just want the most prestige for their leasing pound will stick with the same marques as they have for the last 20 years, and maybe Alfa Romeo finally has an alternative that is worth the extra cost, albeit to a smaller number of people. Might not be a bad thing.

:

Most people will be scratching their head and wondering what you have been smoking!
It's all about the monthlies innit.

In fairness, theres no decent residuals on most cars any more. The times of buying say, a 3 series and recovering 60% of its cost after 3 years are long gone.

So maybe putting your hard earned into an Alfa isnt a bad thing.

If you go down the monthly route though, its maybe harder to justify spending £150 more a month on a car thats maybe not as good as the opposition?

[Blakewater]

If they're leased out for peanuts and on the driveway of every Barratt house plenty of people around here will look down their noses at them for being common and not premium products.

[daemon]

Blakewater said:

If they're leased out for peanuts and on the driveway of every Barratt house plenty of people around here will look down their noses at them for being common and not premium products.

No one is saying they need to be cheaper than the opposition, just that they need competitive leasing.

[daemon]

jamies30 said:

Alfa Romeo isn't meant to be a budget brand, though. In the good old days, you paid a (justified) premium for them - I believe a Montreal was more expensive than an E-Type, in their day. Granted they've lost their way a little in recent years, so things like the MiTo had to take a more down-market "never mind the quality, feel the width" approach.

So maybe the folks who just want the most prestige for their leasing pound will stick with the same marques as they have for the last 20 years, and maybe Alfa Romeo finally has an alternative that is worth the extra cost, albeit to a smaller number of people. Might not be a bad thing.

I've no particular issue with that - providing that the car you're getting is better than what you could otherwise get for your money. Only time will tell if thats the case.

Lets be honest, in recent years Alfa have asked us to pay premium prices for fairly average cars based on the fact that they used to make good cars.

I dont think that stacks up for too many people.

[SidewaysSi]

daemon said:

jamies30 said:

Alfa Romeo isn't meant to be a budget brand, though. In the good old days, you paid a (justified) premium for them - I believe a Montreal was more expensive than an E-Type, in their day. Granted they've lost their way a little in recent years, so things like the MiTo had to take a more down-market "never mind the quality, feel the width" approach.

So maybe the folks who just want the most prestige for their leasing pound will stick with the same marques as they have for the last 20 years, and maybe Alfa Romeo finally has an alternative that is worth the extra cost, albeit to a smaller number of people. Might not be a bad thing.

I've no particular issue with that - providing that the car you're getting is better than what you could otherwise get for your money. Only time will tell if thats the case.

Lets be honest, in recent years Alfa have asked us to pay premium prices for fairly average cars based on the fact that they used to make good cars.

I dont think that stacks up for too many people.

Not the same but we have a 147 and I really like it. More than average and IMO a far better machine than a Focus or Golf.

[robemcdonald]

How much money do the "premium brands" make out of the cheap leases they offer?

Maybe Alfa decided losing money on lots of lease cars wasn't the way to go.

Turnover is vanity. Profit is sanity.

[daemon]

robemcdonald said:

How much money do the "premium brands" make out of the cheap leases they offer?

Maybe Alfa decided losing money on lots of lease cars wasn't the way to go.

Turnover is vanity. Profit is sanity.

BMW had 2.5 billion euros PROFIT in the first quarter of 2016....

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-03/...

Edited by daemon on Saturday 24th September 18:20