How to deal with 17 year old driving dangerously?
Discussion
Does the kid realise there's a dash cam in the car recording everything? If he doesn't I'd be tempted to just say someone told you XYZ and not say you've got it on video and see his reaction. Then decide if you want to pull out the footage or keep that as a quiet way to monitor things.
Reg Local said:
OP, I can help!
Click through my username to my website and drop me an email via my "contact me" page & I'll give you some options.
Should be easy enough to get your lad back on the right track without losing his enthusiasm.
Jesus wept Reg, you cover some ground in the first ten seconds of this video. Not entirely sure you're what this lad needs!Click through my username to my website and drop me an email via my "contact me" page & I'll give you some options.
Should be easy enough to get your lad back on the right track without losing his enthusiasm.
https://youtu.be/PkE0q1s-lng
(I'm going to watch the vids later - seems like a genuinely good idea that this bloke's lad has a look at these)
Nanook said:
Pferdestarke said:
Invite him to a meeting at 7pm tonight. Invite close family including uncles and grand parents and tell them they just need to listen.
Go through the footage and let him explain what is wrong, and what the implications were for each action. Let him know the seriousness of the risks he presents to other road users, himself and what impact that would have on his family.
Surely that will. Dan more to him than pass plus?
Some of you lot are weird.Go through the footage and let him explain what is wrong, and what the implications were for each action. Let him know the seriousness of the risks he presents to other road users, himself and what impact that would have on his family.
Surely that will. Dan more to him than pass plus?
Lecturing will do no good, he needs to learn for himself.ashleyman said:
Does the kid realise there's a dash cam in the car recording everything? If he doesn't I'd be tempted to just say someoneThe Fuzz told you XYZ and not say you've got it on video and see his reaction. Then decide if you want to pull out the footage or keep that as a quiet way to monitor things.
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
I suspect that amongst the population of "17 year olds who drive like t
ts", "rarely" is somewhat less rare. What the OP described *is* dangerous, and while I expect most of us did things which in retrospect were stupid, some were worse than others. OP's kid's driving is the sort of thing that ruins it for the rest of them. This is why they have to buy black box insurance. You can't teach someone who doesn't want to be taught. In all those situations he's assessed the circumstances and decided upon his course of action - even though objectively to those of us with experience they were wildly inappropriate. HE feels they were appropriate and that incorrect judgement is what needs to be addressed.
Sitting him down and going over the video and pointing out all the flaws might have a short term impact, but he'll just hate you for it and ignore you whenever he thinks he can get away with it.
You can probably address the actual car handling skill elements which could remove the biggest risks to his life the high speed crashes etc... The judgement stuff I wonder whether he has to learn it by himself through mistakes. I know I did, and fortunately none of them involved actual accidents, just close calls. If he has a few small scrapes and bashes... Well, it's his insurance, he'll learn the hard way.
Perhaps you could address the risks of hitting pedestrians. But spin it so it's about what effect it has on HIM, there's no point talking about what would happen to poor little 4 year old Timmy that gets crashed into, he won't care. Walk him through the way that if little Tkmmy was to amble out in front of him and he couldn't stop in time, he would lose his licence, car, therefore freedom, and maybe a whacking great fine or even a prison sentence. Stress this is a very real possibility based on what you've seen of his driving.
I do hope that he's paying all the running costs of the car himself because if he isn't then you're already starting him off wrong with no appreciation for the machine or the expense of treating it poorly.
On the actual driving skills stuff... frankly, you need to play him. As his dad you are probably not in his mind a valid person to criticise his driving because he probably sees you as a boring old fart with slow reflexes and who wasn't in the same situation as he was. As with bedroom techniques, nobody likes their driving being criticised, let alone by someone who they think isn't worthy of judging them. So remove yourself from the equation and bring in an indepedent person who your lad will automatically consider worthy of commenting on his driving. Book an instructed track session for both of you as a father son bonding day out thing (assuming he's into cars enough to be up for it). Don't mention it as anything to do with his prior driving. One of the most informative driving experiences of my life was a half day tuition at Millbrook, the instructor was pushing me WAY beyond my comfort zone and letting me see first hand not only how capable modern cars are but also how frankly unnerving the feelings can be when pushing it & occasionally how it feels when it goes wrong. It was humbling and I drive much more sedately afterward because it recalibrates your ego, you realise actually you're a bit of a crap driving wuss compared to the innocuous looking 50-something bloke whose balls were clearly three times the size of yours.
Sitting him down and going over the video and pointing out all the flaws might have a short term impact, but he'll just hate you for it and ignore you whenever he thinks he can get away with it.
You can probably address the actual car handling skill elements which could remove the biggest risks to his life the high speed crashes etc... The judgement stuff I wonder whether he has to learn it by himself through mistakes. I know I did, and fortunately none of them involved actual accidents, just close calls. If he has a few small scrapes and bashes... Well, it's his insurance, he'll learn the hard way.
Perhaps you could address the risks of hitting pedestrians. But spin it so it's about what effect it has on HIM, there's no point talking about what would happen to poor little 4 year old Timmy that gets crashed into, he won't care. Walk him through the way that if little Tkmmy was to amble out in front of him and he couldn't stop in time, he would lose his licence, car, therefore freedom, and maybe a whacking great fine or even a prison sentence. Stress this is a very real possibility based on what you've seen of his driving.
I do hope that he's paying all the running costs of the car himself because if he isn't then you're already starting him off wrong with no appreciation for the machine or the expense of treating it poorly.
On the actual driving skills stuff... frankly, you need to play him. As his dad you are probably not in his mind a valid person to criticise his driving because he probably sees you as a boring old fart with slow reflexes and who wasn't in the same situation as he was. As with bedroom techniques, nobody likes their driving being criticised, let alone by someone who they think isn't worthy of judging them. So remove yourself from the equation and bring in an indepedent person who your lad will automatically consider worthy of commenting on his driving. Book an instructed track session for both of you as a father son bonding day out thing (assuming he's into cars enough to be up for it). Don't mention it as anything to do with his prior driving. One of the most informative driving experiences of my life was a half day tuition at Millbrook, the instructor was pushing me WAY beyond my comfort zone and letting me see first hand not only how capable modern cars are but also how frankly unnerving the feelings can be when pushing it & occasionally how it feels when it goes wrong. It was humbling and I drive much more sedately afterward because it recalibrates your ego, you realise actually you're a bit of a crap driving wuss compared to the innocuous looking 50-something bloke whose balls were clearly three times the size of yours.
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
Pferdestarke said:
Invite him to a meeting at 7pm tonight. Invite close family including uncles and grand parents and tell them they just need to listen.
Go through the footage and let him explain what is wrong, and what the implications were for each action. Let him know the seriousness of the risks he presents to other road users, himself and what impact that would have on his family.
Surely that will. Dan more to him than pass plus?
Flipping heck...please don't ever have kids Go through the footage and let him explain what is wrong, and what the implications were for each action. Let him know the seriousness of the risks he presents to other road users, himself and what impact that would have on his family.
Surely that will. Dan more to him than pass plus?
k up there?' " I'm still swift (when conditions allow and when I know the road, I'm not slow on roads I don't but I won't nail it either).
Gentle encouragement is the key, even in a case like this.
Nanook said:
andy_s said:
Hopefully 'learning the lesson' won't involve injury, death or innocent third parties, you know, the things that usually happen in car accidents.
Honestly, what a fking stupid attitude.
What usually happens in car accidents is the car gets dented a bit, everyone else is fine.Honestly, what a f
king stupid attitude.Yes, obviously sometimes people get hurt, rarely, people die, but calm down a bit, try not to get so hysterical.
ModernAndy said:
I wouldn't take the keys from him just yet. What I would do is have mum or dad sitting in the passenger seat watching his driving on every trip until he can prove he is responsible enough to be trusted on his own. Hopefully you can provide a decent critique of his driving and make some best practices habit.
The original post does read as if the kid has had money thrown at him for others to teach him how to drive a car but is yet to have his parents invest time in actually teaching him how to use the roads and behave as they would wish ehich seems to be what is actually missing rather than throwing more money at having more strangers talk to him about things. Maybe a harsh indictment but it's what seems to be being implied in the post.
The only people truly interested in him not killing himself or others are the parents and potential victims. As the latter is unknown then it falls 100% into the lap of the parents where investing time in direct education is more appropriate than paying strangers to do it. Just get in the car with him and make him drive and get him to tell you all the dangers as they approach and where he fails, just educate until he is a wiser man than he is now.
X5TUU said:
Jesus, I'm glad dash cams weren't around when I passed ... cut them some slack, people need to learn lessons for themselves good and bad
Problem is it sounds like his driving is so bad that the lesson will be learned a *very* hard way, ie. causing injury/damage to others, rather than a gently bump or slide to shake them up.As mentioned if he is driving like a loon with a parents' dash cam recording in the car then I think it will be hard to get an immediate improvement.
I think just sitting down and reviewing some footage will help, pointing out the "what if" of each one, eg. "what if the other driver hadn't swerved", "what if a police car was just around that corner and saw everything". If you jot down each dangerous thing in a single journey as you are watching with him and then tot up the total potential points/fines/damage it would be interesting.
I think it's important to mention that no driver is perfect, we all make mistakes, but driving at 100% and making obviously reckless manoeuvres is not on.
X5TUU said:
andy_s said:
X5TUU said:
Jesus, I'm glad dash cams weren't around when I passed ... cut them some slack, people need to learn lessons for themselves good and bad
Hopefully 'learning the lesson' won't involve injury, death or innocent third parties, you know, the things that usually happen in car accidents.Honestly, what a f
king stupid attitude.Point is, most are non-serious 'fender benders' but people need to learn these things themselves ... this level of over intervention will serve as nothing more than a wedge to drive people apart and cause further unnecessary animosity (no pun intended)
I'm not saying get Victorian on him, that's counter-productive I agree, but to do nothing and let 'nature take its course' seems particularly irresponsible, negligent and potentially harmful to completely innocent people.
All 17 year-old boys have driven like that thing you find between ladies' legs since the dawn of the internal combustion engine. This is written. I did. Everyone on here did.
Other than relying on God's grace, you need to wise him up to the fact that he isn't invincible and hone his skills at the same time. Track days, skid pans etc will do some good as might hearing real life stories of people who weren't lucky.
He might, for example, like a quick chat with my parents' friends Charles and Eleanor. They lost both their 17 year old daughter and 15 year old son when the daughter totalled the family Range Rover running into the back of a queue of traffic on the M4. They might also like to talk to the extended family of the family of four who were all killed in the Peugeot 205 that she hit. I'm sure he'll appreciate what a barrel of laughs the last 29 years have been for Charles and Eleanor.
Other than relying on God's grace, you need to wise him up to the fact that he isn't invincible and hone his skills at the same time. Track days, skid pans etc will do some good as might hearing real life stories of people who weren't lucky.
He might, for example, like a quick chat with my parents' friends Charles and Eleanor. They lost both their 17 year old daughter and 15 year old son when the daughter totalled the family Range Rover running into the back of a queue of traffic on the M4. They might also like to talk to the extended family of the family of four who were all killed in the Peugeot 205 that she hit. I'm sure he'll appreciate what a barrel of laughs the last 29 years have been for Charles and Eleanor.
I have found that the best approach is always say what you mean and always mean what you say. Give him the keys back for 1 week on the basis that you will review his performance after that week. If he drives like a bleeding idiot you will take them back for a month. Agree that you will review his driving every 3 weeks and any grossly irresponsible behavior will cause him to lose his car for 1 month. Every review that does not show him driving like a cock will result him getting his tank filled for free. Make the rules absolutely none negotiable, never back down on them. Any cheating or suspected cheating carry's the same penalty. By the sound of his driving you could just be saving his life.
andy_s said:
X5TUU said:
andy_s said:
X5TUU said:
Jesus, I'm glad dash cams weren't around when I passed ... cut them some slack, people need to learn lessons for themselves good and bad
Hopefully 'learning the lesson' won't involve injury, death or innocent third parties, you know, the things that usually happen in car accidents.Honestly, what a f
king stupid attitude.Point is, most are non-serious 'fender benders' but people need to learn these things themselves ... this level of over intervention will serve as nothing more than a wedge to drive people apart and cause further unnecessary animosity (no pun intended)
I'm not saying get Victorian on him, that's counter-productive I agree, but to do nothing and let 'nature take its course' seems particularly irresponsible, negligent and potentially harmful to completely innocent people.
X5TUU said:
Jesus, I'm glad dash cams weren't around when I passed ... cut them some slack, people need to learn lessons for themselves good and bad
So am I, it was back the 80's when I passed my test and we drove in manner that wouldn't be approved of, that said the cars only had 40hp so perhaps I wasn't going as fast as I remember. Edited by Wills2 on Thursday 29th September 09:30
ClaphamGT3 said:
He might, for example, like a quick chat with my parents' friends Charles and Eleanor. They lost both their 17 year old daughter and 15 year old son when the daughter totalled the family Range Rover running into the back of a queue of traffic on the M4. They might also like to talk to the extended family of the family of four who were all killed in the Peugeot 205 that she hit. I'm sure he'll appreciate what a barrel of laughs the last 29 years have been for Charles and Eleanor.
You can't do that with boys - they're utterly convinced that they're invincible. If they listen they'll think that crash happened because it was a girl driving.Tyres on kids cars bugs me - but try talking to young lads and they think rear tyres don't matter on the FWD hatchbacks they drive because they can power through rear-end slides.
Reg Local said:
OP, I can help!
Click through my username to my website and drop me an email via my "contact me" page & I'll give you some options.
Should be easy enough to get your lad back on the right track without losing his enthusiasm.
Do this OP.Click through my username to my website and drop me an email via my "contact me" page & I'll give you some options.
Should be easy enough to get your lad back on the right track without losing his enthusiasm.
It's pretty natural for 17 year olds to drive like that. They'll learn, one way or the other. Some day he'll have the keys to a car back so try and aim to do something more constructive than a weird family intervention meeting. It might be worth finding a way to get him to do a lot of driving with you in the car with him, road trip?
As someone still young(-ish, 25 is the new 21), I was sensible due to being in 2 accidents (Not serious, but enough to hurt/shake me up) as a passenger, my brother was in a head on (as a passenger) that was a bit more serious. Of course when I got in a car I drove faster than I should of, but only in "Sensible places"
Aside from learning like this, someone I know recently put black box on for their young daughter. She carried on driving at 40/50 in 30s etc. so the insurance just cancelled (From what i'm aware, they're not allowed to raise the price during the policy unless you're approaching your mileage limit, but can cancel due to driving) which means she can only get insured by Black Box now, but with tighter restrictions (less mileage, no driving past x time) and over £1500 more a year which she had to pay herself.
I'd give him another chance with the idea you'll review the footage whenever you please after having a quick chat with him, if he's still driving bad and you're paying the insurance/for the car, move him onto black box.
Aside from learning like this, someone I know recently put black box on for their young daughter. She carried on driving at 40/50 in 30s etc. so the insurance just cancelled (From what i'm aware, they're not allowed to raise the price during the policy unless you're approaching your mileage limit, but can cancel due to driving) which means she can only get insured by Black Box now, but with tighter restrictions (less mileage, no driving past x time) and over £1500 more a year which she had to pay herself.
I'd give him another chance with the idea you'll review the footage whenever you please after having a quick chat with him, if he's still driving bad and you're paying the insurance/for the car, move him onto black box.
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