How to deal with 17 year old driving dangerously?
Discussion
The fear instilled into me from losing a school friend and having my own RTA before 18 was enough to make me respect speed.
How one actually gets this into a 17 year old brain without having them experience a collision or the death of a friend is difficult.
There is a thread somewhere on PH written by an enthusiast type chap who landed up in jail for some erratic driving. His words resonated with me, many other PHers & attracted visitors from far and wide. Might be a useful resource in this instance.
How one actually gets this into a 17 year old brain without having them experience a collision or the death of a friend is difficult.
There is a thread somewhere on PH written by an enthusiast type chap who landed up in jail for some erratic driving. His words resonated with me, many other PHers & attracted visitors from far and wide. Might be a useful resource in this instance.
DuncB7 said:
The fear instilled into me from losing a school friend and having my own RTA before 18 was enough to make me respect speed.
How one actually gets this into a 17 year old brain without having them experience a collision or the death of a friend is difficult.
There is a thread somewhere on PH written by an enthusiast type chap who landed up in jail for some erratic driving. His words resonated with me, many other PHers & attracted visitors from far and wide. Might be a useful resource in this instance.
it's linked 2 posts aboveHow one actually gets this into a 17 year old brain without having them experience a collision or the death of a friend is difficult.
There is a thread somewhere on PH written by an enthusiast type chap who landed up in jail for some erratic driving. His words resonated with me, many other PHers & attracted visitors from far and wide. Might be a useful resource in this instance.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=629...
Wills2 said:
X5TUU said:
Jesus, I'm glad dash cams weren't around when I passed ... cut them some slack, people need to learn lessons for themselves good and bad
So am I, it was back the 80's when I past my test and we drove in manner that wouldn't be approved of, that said the cars only had 40hp so perhaps I wasn't going as fast as I remember. When it went wrong the crappy car was generally still in the hedge. Today, it comes to a rest a long way into the field.
Those crappy old cars also felt like they were doing 100 just clinging on for dear life at 40.
Life as a new driver was definitely made easier by our cars being magnitudes crapper. Plus, with fewer cars in the road there was a much higher chance of being spotted acting the tool and reported back to the parents than today. And parents didn't need to seek advice on the internet but seemed to deal with any issues somewhat more bluntly and efficiently.
xjay1337 said:
That will do nothing for the kid other than annoy him.
You need to take a mature approach.
Confiscating keys without telling him FIRST is a pussy move.
Why have the complexity of approaching him and saying "I'm banning you from the car" when you make him come to you?!
Nothing like pro-active parenting.
PS - I'm assuming the car is OP's - If it's not and he's bought it then that is basically theft.
I would be as mature and respectful as possible. Go through some of the footage (edited to say, with JUST your son, not infront of everyone and their dog) and explain how it's dangerous, don't be sarcastic or pedantic just explain a genuine concern. Then depending on your son's reactions can dictate how you proceed. If he is apologetic and goes like "now you show me I can see that was dangerous" then let him have the keys back, TRUST HIM, and maybe review some footage in a couple of weeks.
If he starts giving excuses and what not straight away, and you bought/pay for the car then feel free to remove car rights for a couple of weeks.
if you go in with the big size 12 shoes and talk to him like a child, on it will just annoy him and make him resent you, where you want him to LISTEN so treat him like an adult.
I would have to respectfully disagree. He isn't behaving like an adult. When he does, he can be treated like one.You need to take a mature approach.
Confiscating keys without telling him FIRST is a pussy move.
Why have the complexity of approaching him and saying "I'm banning you from the car" when you make him come to you?!
Nothing like pro-active parenting.
PS - I'm assuming the car is OP's - If it's not and he's bought it then that is basically theft.
I would be as mature and respectful as possible. Go through some of the footage (edited to say, with JUST your son, not infront of everyone and their dog) and explain how it's dangerous, don't be sarcastic or pedantic just explain a genuine concern. Then depending on your son's reactions can dictate how you proceed. If he is apologetic and goes like "now you show me I can see that was dangerous" then let him have the keys back, TRUST HIM, and maybe review some footage in a couple of weeks.
If he starts giving excuses and what not straight away, and you bought/pay for the car then feel free to remove car rights for a couple of weeks.
if you go in with the big size 12 shoes and talk to him like a child, on it will just annoy him and make him resent you, where you want him to LISTEN so treat him like an adult.
What he actually needs is a bloody good hiding but since that's illegal other techniques have to be used, but he can't be treated like an adult since he hasn't earned that right.
Obviously if the car is his, bought and paid for, taking the keys isn't going to work but I'd be amzed if that's the scenario here.
I do agree he shouldn't be ritually humilated in front of other family members - it shouild just be father and son.
As for him being annoyed - well that's the idea. He needs to be annoyed, and thus learn that his stupid actions have removed his ability to drive.
I'm no fan of the modern ways of pussyfooting around and treating people gently. He needs to be taught a lesson, a lesson that doesn't involve crashing, killing himself and potentially others. If he doesn't like it and it upsets him - hard luck, all he needs to do is modify his attitude and stop being a jerk.
Driving is an adult responsibility. If he isn't an adult, he cannot be allowed to drive.
I made it quite clear to mine if he was a dick he would lose the car, I owned it and I made him aware of the less dramatic consequences of crashing it, i.e. remove the death and destruction and point out that insurance will sky rocket meaning you cant insure anything decent for another few years, basically it will cost you money.
My eldest is now 20, 21 in a couple of months, he has kept his nose clean in the last three years, not really given us any concern, now has gone from a 1 litre to a 1.8, if he had caused a bad crash, that wouldn't have been an option, his insurance with a years NCD at 20 is £1100, throw in a fault accident and a few points, cant probably double or treble that.
My eldest is now 20, 21 in a couple of months, he has kept his nose clean in the last three years, not really given us any concern, now has gone from a 1 litre to a 1.8, if he had caused a bad crash, that wouldn't have been an option, his insurance with a years NCD at 20 is £1100, throw in a fault accident and a few points, cant probably double or treble that.
zarjaz1991 said:
xjay1337 said:
That will do nothing for the kid other than annoy him.
You need to take a mature approach.
Confiscating keys without telling him FIRST is a pussy move.
Why have the complexity of approaching him and saying "I'm banning you from the car" when you make him come to you?!
Nothing like pro-active parenting.
PS - I'm assuming the car is OP's - If it's not and he's bought it then that is basically theft.
I would be as mature and respectful as possible. Go through some of the footage (edited to say, with JUST your son, not infront of everyone and their dog) and explain how it's dangerous, don't be sarcastic or pedantic just explain a genuine concern. Then depending on your son's reactions can dictate how you proceed. If he is apologetic and goes like "now you show me I can see that was dangerous" then let him have the keys back, TRUST HIM, and maybe review some footage in a couple of weeks.
If he starts giving excuses and what not straight away, and you bought/pay for the car then feel free to remove car rights for a couple of weeks.
if you go in with the big size 12 shoes and talk to him like a child, on it will just annoy him and make him resent you, where you want him to LISTEN so treat him like an adult.
I would have to respectfully disagree. He isn't behaving like an adult. When he does, he can be treated like one.You need to take a mature approach.
Confiscating keys without telling him FIRST is a pussy move.
Why have the complexity of approaching him and saying "I'm banning you from the car" when you make him come to you?!
Nothing like pro-active parenting.
PS - I'm assuming the car is OP's - If it's not and he's bought it then that is basically theft.
I would be as mature and respectful as possible. Go through some of the footage (edited to say, with JUST your son, not infront of everyone and their dog) and explain how it's dangerous, don't be sarcastic or pedantic just explain a genuine concern. Then depending on your son's reactions can dictate how you proceed. If he is apologetic and goes like "now you show me I can see that was dangerous" then let him have the keys back, TRUST HIM, and maybe review some footage in a couple of weeks.
If he starts giving excuses and what not straight away, and you bought/pay for the car then feel free to remove car rights for a couple of weeks.
if you go in with the big size 12 shoes and talk to him like a child, on it will just annoy him and make him resent you, where you want him to LISTEN so treat him like an adult.
What he actually needs is a bloody good hiding but since that's illegal other techniques have to be used, but he can't be treated like an adult since he hasn't earned that right.
Obviously if the car is his, bought and paid for, taking the keys isn't going to work but I'd be amzed if that's the scenario here.
I do agree he shouldn't be ritually humilated in front of other family members - it shouild just be father and son.
As for him being annoyed - well that's the idea. He needs to be annoyed, and thus learn that his stupid actions have removed his ability to drive.
I'm no fan of the modern ways of pussyfooting around and treating people gently. He needs to be taught a lesson, a lesson that doesn't involve crashing, killing himself and potentially others. If he doesn't like it and it upsets him - hard luck, all he needs to do is modify his attitude and stop being a jerk.
Driving is an adult responsibility. If he isn't an adult, he cannot be allowed to drive.
t, like he's spraying AK47 bullets into a Justin Beiber concet. like you have never been a bit silly, we all have, including me.I've had my fair share of dicking around in Tescos carpark doing handbrake turns.
A bloody good hiding? What do you suggest? Maybe send him off to national service, or take him into the cupboard under the stairs and hit him with the broom???
Being full of youthful exuberance does not mean you are not an adult and trust me, if you start talking to him like a child he will end up responding like one and you will end up in nothing more than a slanging match where he resents the parents, and the parents are upset because not only have they ended up falling out with their son but they have not gotten their message across.
In my opinion the absolute right thing to do is sit down with him, show him the video and go from there. As I have said if he accepts what you are telling him, no need to faff around taking the keys.
If he doesn't then you may feel more inclined.
Definitely agree with the 'plan of attack' being one of drilling home just how much st he will be in if he hurts someone.
No doubt he thinks he's a driving god, or at least far more talented than he really is like we all did at 17, so you probably won't get through to him so easily with tales of how he'll end up crashing and hurting himself. He knows in his 17-year-old mind that it just won't happen to him.
Run a toddler over though, or hit someone head-on around a blind bend, and he's going to be in a whole heap of brown stuff unless he can prove he was squeaky clean in the moments leading up to the collision.
10p's thread is a good one, as someone else mentioned. Even now at 40+ it pops into my mind when I'm being liberal with my right foot.
We're all only one corner from disaster when 'pressing on' because others' perceptions of how we were driving prior to an incident are more important than we'd like to think...
t he will be in if he hurts someone.No doubt he thinks he's a driving god, or at least far more talented than he really is like we all did at 17, so you probably won't get through to him so easily with tales of how he'll end up crashing and hurting himself. He knows in his 17-year-old mind that it just won't happen to him.
Run a toddler over though, or hit someone head-on around a blind bend, and he's going to be in a whole heap of brown stuff unless he can prove he was squeaky clean in the moments leading up to the collision.
10p's thread is a good one, as someone else mentioned. Even now at 40+ it pops into my mind when I'm being liberal with my right foot.
We're all only one corner from disaster when 'pressing on' because others' perceptions of how we were driving prior to an incident are more important than we'd like to think...
xjay1337 said:
Spare me the sanctimonius bullst, like he's spraying AK47 bullets into a Justin Beiber concet.
Hmm that's a not a bad.....err, let's not go there.t, like he's spraying AK47 bullets into a Justin Beiber concet. xjay1337 said:
like you have never been a bit silly, we all have, including me.
I've had my fair share of dicking around in Tescos carpark doing handbrake turns.
That's not what he's done though is it.I've had my fair share of dicking around in Tescos carpark doing handbrake turns.
xjay1337 said:
A bloody good hiding? What do you suggest? Maybe send him off to national service, or take him into the cupboard under the stairs and hit him with the broom???
Well I'm not suggesting anything. As I said in my post, giving him a bloody good hiding would be illegal so isn't an option.xjay1337 said:
Being full of youthful exuberance does not mean you are not an adult and trust me, if you start talking to him like a child he will end up responding like one and you will end up in nothing more than a slanging match where he resents the parents, and the parents are upset because not only have they ended up falling out with their son but they have not gotten their message across.
Driving a car in the manner described (and admittedly we haven't seen the video - could turn out to be tame if we see it, but I'm taking it at face value for now) is NOT adult and youthful exuberance or not, it needs to be stopped before he kills himself or someone else. That's not being sanctimonious, it's a fact, and I'm afraid I'm not one of those who sees putting others' lives at risk as being a bit of a lark and just kids being kids. If they want to behave like that they should stick to bicycles. The fact that some on this site seem to be proud of the fact that they got away with it in their teenage years doesn't make it something to aspire to. And no, I'm not a boring old fart, I'm a boring YOUNG fart.
xjay1337 said:
In my opinion the absolute right thing to do is sit down with him, show him the video and go from there. As I have said if he accepts what you are telling him, no need to faff around taking the keys.
If he doesn't then you may feel more inclined.
So he can just say ok dad you have a point then sod off and carry on as before! Because that's exactly what he'll do. He needs the hard lesson. They just laugh at you if you go softly softly.If he doesn't then you may feel more inclined.
we had some odd driving lessons from the woodwork teacher at school.
these consisted of driving a stripped car, consisting of a chassis, engine and the oily bits to make it go. no body work, around the varying playing fields, but of course not on the rugby pitches.
anyway to stop it going too quick, there was a wooden block under the pedal !
times were different then
there you go, my answer.
these consisted of driving a stripped car, consisting of a chassis, engine and the oily bits to make it go. no body work, around the varying playing fields, but of course not on the rugby pitches.
anyway to stop it going too quick, there was a wooden block under the pedal !
times were different then
there you go, my answer.
zarjaz1991 said:
xjay1337 said:
In my opinion the absolute right thing to do is sit down with him, show him the video and go from there. As I have said if he accepts what you are telling him, no need to faff around taking the keys.
If he doesn't then you may feel more inclined.
So he can just say ok dad you have a point then sod off and carry on as before! Because that's exactly what he'll do. He needs the hard lesson. They just laugh at you if you go softly softly.If he doesn't then you may feel more inclined.
He may well say "actually, yeah you are right Dad, thanks for pointing it out, I needed that bit of fatherly advice." and then he will be more sensible. As opposed to resent you and not take in your advice if you throw him in metaphorical jail first without explaining to him.
There is a time and a place to play hard-arse and it's not what you do first unless your child is a little s
t who doesn't ever listen.zarjaz1991 said:
xjay1337 said:
Being full of youthful exuberance does not mean you are not an adult and trust me, if you start talking to him like a child he will end up responding like one and you will end up in nothing more than a slanging match where he resents the parents, and the parents are upset because not only have they ended up falling out with their son but they have not gotten their message across.
Driving a car in the manner described (and admittedly we haven't seen the video - could turn out to be tame if we see it, but I'm taking it at face value for now) is NOT adult and youthful exuberance or not, it needs to be stopped before he kills himself or someone else. That's not being sanctimonious, it's a fact, and I'm afraid I'm not one of those who sees putting others' lives at risk as being a bit of a lark and just kids being kids. If they want to behave like that they should stick to bicycles. The fact that some on this site seem to be proud of the fact that they got away with it in their teenage years doesn't make it something to aspire to. And no, I'm not a boring old fart, I'm a boring YOUNG fart.
I am suggesting speaking to (notice I am saying speaking to, it implies two way respectful conversation) the son first before applying any sanctions or punishments with the outcome based on the son's response.
You are suggesting talking down to the son, like a child, and throwing punishment at him immediately.
Yes, you are a boring old fart.
Everyone on this thread has probably done stupid s
t when they were younger which is just as bad, if not worse than what OP's son has done. Except from you of course, because you drive a Mondeo.Maybe you should stick to Mumsnet.
Edited by xjay1337 on Monday 26th September 13:07
Take the car away from him for now
Public transport until then with the odd lift from yourself/other family members.
And for those people suggesting to get a black box insurance for him, don't do it. Not until he's proven that he can drive safely for a consistent period of time via dashcam/direct observation/hidden tracker.
If he did have a black box and was driving like the way you said he was, then his insurance policy would be cancelled very swiftly.
And then he'd be categorised as having 'been refused car insurance'.
Good luck with car insurance quotes then...
Public transport until then with the odd lift from yourself/other family members.
And for those people suggesting to get a black box insurance for him, don't do it. Not until he's proven that he can drive safely for a consistent period of time via dashcam/direct observation/hidden tracker.
If he did have a black box and was driving like the way you said he was, then his insurance policy would be cancelled very swiftly.
And then he'd be categorised as having 'been refused car insurance'.
Good luck with car insurance quotes then...
QuickQuack said:
... my wife suggested we should have a look through the recordings on the dashcam in his car. What we saw was pretty bad.
OP, was your son aware that the car had a dashcam fitted and was recording his driving? Did you fit it just to monitor him?If he was aware and still drove like a prat you've got significant issues - I don't think that he will listen to reason.
If he wasn't aware you've got even more significant issues - when he finds out that you've been filming him secretly he's likely to lose all respect he had for you.
Sooo... which is it?
(I've got three kids all driving, not long out of their teenage years, so I can relate to what you're going through - need to know on what basis he was being filmed though, to respond properly)
xjay1337 said:
I am taking it at face value to. Who is saying this is a lark at all. We are proposing to different methods of dealing with the problem.
I am suggesting speaking to (nothing I am saying speaking to, it implies two way respectful conversation) the son first before applying any sanctions or punishments with the outcome based on the son's response.
You are suggesting talking down to the son, like a child, and throwing punishment at him immediately.
Yes, you are a boring old fart.
Everyone on this thread has probably done stupid st when they were younger which is just as bad, if not worse than what OP's son has done. Except from you of course, because you drive a Mondeo.
Maybe you should stick to Mumsnet.
The fact that lots of people do 'stupid sI am suggesting speaking to (nothing I am saying speaking to, it implies two way respectful conversation) the son first before applying any sanctions or punishments with the outcome based on the son's response.
You are suggesting talking down to the son, like a child, and throwing punishment at him immediately.
Yes, you are a boring old fart.
Everyone on this thread has probably done stupid s
t when they were younger which is just as bad, if not worse than what OP's son has done. Except from you of course, because you drive a Mondeo.Maybe you should stick to Mumsnet.
t' doesn't make it a good idea. Plenty on here are advocating taking the car away immediately. This is a 'shoot first, ask questions later' scenario. If he resents it - bad luck. He needs to grow up pretty quickly, and if he can't, then he isn't ready to be driving a car anyhow. the softly-softly approach just soesn't work with these types, they will not listen and they will not learn unless it is forced on them.
And others have also made a valid point - was he aware of the dashcam? If he was, then he's an even bigger prat. If he wasn't, then the father has some explaining to do over where the footage came from. It won't be pleasant for the boy to discover he was being secretly filmed and if that's the scenario, that's a far greater hurdle to overcome than anything anyone else has mentioned.
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
Remind him that 6 points = bye bye license.
Any points or claims = huge insurance premium hike.
Aside from that - it sounds like threat of black box time - these things beep at you whenever you attempt to have any fun and I think some automatically increase your insurance? Threaten him with one of these and I'll sure he'll reign his enthusiasm pretty quick (hateful things mind...and probably the reason there are so many painfully dawdling drivers on the road?).
In other news - he's 17.
Id agree with the paragraphs above.Any points or claims = huge insurance premium hike.
Aside from that - it sounds like threat of black box time - these things beep at you whenever you attempt to have any fun and I think some automatically increase your insurance? Threaten him with one of these and I'll sure he'll reign his enthusiasm pretty quick (hateful things mind...and probably the reason there are so many painfully dawdling drivers on the road?).
In other news - he's 17.
The implications of loosing His new found freedom for two years, having to walk and get the bus everywhere, AND the potential for an offence on his record, when he applies for a job, should be a powerful message.
If done correctly, with some examples pulled off the net of boys that didn't listen.
It worked with our boy anyway, when he had peer pressure to keep up with one or two loony mates.
Lots of facts that need to be established but better go too hard on the kid and have him curse you and be alive than go too soft and be answering the door to the police with some god awful news
Personally I would go carrot and stick in reverse order. I'd bk the hell out of him for being a pillock and then pay for him to spend a session on a skid pan to see what happens when things get out of shape quickly.
I'd then tell him I asked pistonheads what they thought and show him this thread. Then I'd ask him what he would do if this was his son.
Then to paraphrase Johnt Cash, he'll call you his dad, and you'll call him your son, and he'll throw down his gun and come away with a different pint of view. His name is Sue right?
Personally I would go carrot and stick in reverse order. I'd b
k the hell out of him for being a pillock and then pay for him to spend a session on a skid pan to see what happens when things get out of shape quickly. I'd then tell him I asked pistonheads what they thought and show him this thread. Then I'd ask him what he would do if this was his son.
Then to paraphrase Johnt Cash, he'll call you his dad, and you'll call him your son, and he'll throw down his gun and come away with a different pint of view. His name is Sue right?
Edited by CS Garth on Monday 26th September 13:31
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