Really wanted to love a V8 but...
Discussion
I think its a case that large capacity engines just feel slow compared to the surge you get from turbo's, my supercharged 370z doesn't feel that quick but when you watch the speed building you realise that it is, its because they have a very flat torque curve and humans are better at sensing rapid changes in torque
I took the Vauxhall VXR8 out for a test drive and was all set up to love it but felt distinctly underwhelmed by its 580hp, it could have been this torque thing , perhaps it was pulled back a little as it was brand new but i went in a older supercharged VXR and that felt fairly quick
Perhaps like me you should give it another try
I took the Vauxhall VXR8 out for a test drive and was all set up to love it but felt distinctly underwhelmed by its 580hp, it could have been this torque thing , perhaps it was pulled back a little as it was brand new but i went in a older supercharged VXR and that felt fairly quick
Perhaps like me you should give it another try
Its the difference to getting great glob of torque at low revs that makers it feel quick vs a seamless rush of torque and power that is deceptively quick.
My Smart Roadster feels quick but the E240 Estate will pretty much level peg it in straight lines even though it feels pretty slow.
My Smart Roadster feels quick but the E240 Estate will pretty much level peg it in straight lines even though it feels pretty slow.
Thing is a 380bhp Leon is going to feel urgent. I used to drive a Megane 225 re-mapped to about 265bhp and it felt like it was always trying to urge you to speed, fairly frantic and that was over 100bhp down on your Leon OP.
I know own a CLS63 so a 500bhp V8 and if I'm honest it feels fast to me even though it's bigger and quieter. But the engine feels like a big N/A rather than a punchy turbo. It's staggering how high up the full power comes in on such a big engine.
I can see where in your mind you anticipated that the likes of a C63 would feel like a rocket ship compared to the Leon but in gear I'd imagine the Leon was as quick. I guess you have to look at other things that the likes a £40k car would offer. For example my CLS beats my RS hands down in terms of comfort, features, looks and most other things, plus it goes some too.
I know own a CLS63 so a 500bhp V8 and if I'm honest it feels fast to me even though it's bigger and quieter. But the engine feels like a big N/A rather than a punchy turbo. It's staggering how high up the full power comes in on such a big engine.
I can see where in your mind you anticipated that the likes of a C63 would feel like a rocket ship compared to the Leon but in gear I'd imagine the Leon was as quick. I guess you have to look at other things that the likes a £40k car would offer. For example my CLS beats my RS hands down in terms of comfort, features, looks and most other things, plus it goes some too.
This will be a laugh and owning something similar myself, guaranteed to put a smile on your face/not be boring. Should be reliable too.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/v...
At 600hp, that's a lot of car for the money and you'll have 20k change to spend on petrol.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/v...
At 600hp, that's a lot of car for the money and you'll have 20k change to spend on petrol.
There is a logical progression and it is assumed you will move through supermini, junior hatch, hot hatch, V6 turbo, V8 or whatever, but no one car does everything and pushes all your buttons.
A 300 plus bhp FWD hatch will be plenty quick enough for the road, the V8 supersaloons will be quicker but doesnt mean you will enjoy it more, a boost fwd can be a joy.
It is making the step up of a division or two, a mate was into turbo Astras and went on about a Monaro as his dream drove one and thought it was a big lump, that didnt feel that fast and had a really clunky gearchange, he went for a Impreza WR1 and really enjoyed that, replaced it with a E46 M3 and was a bit underwhelmed but it grew on him eventually, but still hankers after the Subaru.
Tastes are different and remember sometimes it takes a while to "get" a specific car, some are crowd pleasers, instant gratification, some are more slow burning.
You could spend ten times more and still not enjoy it, I sometimes wonder whether supercars are actually worth the effort, is it ten times better than a hot hatch, no, not really, law of diminishing returns kicks in as well
A 300 plus bhp FWD hatch will be plenty quick enough for the road, the V8 supersaloons will be quicker but doesnt mean you will enjoy it more, a boost fwd can be a joy.
It is making the step up of a division or two, a mate was into turbo Astras and went on about a Monaro as his dream drove one and thought it was a big lump, that didnt feel that fast and had a really clunky gearchange, he went for a Impreza WR1 and really enjoyed that, replaced it with a E46 M3 and was a bit underwhelmed but it grew on him eventually, but still hankers after the Subaru.
Tastes are different and remember sometimes it takes a while to "get" a specific car, some are crowd pleasers, instant gratification, some are more slow burning.
You could spend ten times more and still not enjoy it, I sometimes wonder whether supercars are actually worth the effort, is it ten times better than a hot hatch, no, not really, law of diminishing returns kicks in as well
I think all this rate of change of torque stuff is overstated - maybe for "brisk" cars but not fast ones. My Cerbera gets a "Holy s
t!" reaction from most first time passengers.
I think the difference is levels of isolation - most of the cars discussed are excessively "mature" in their delivery because the market has been suffering from a maturity crisis with everyone wanting the car to be quiet, everyday friendly and do everything for them.
To feel fast and excite, a car needs to give an impression of lots of things happening quickly.
t!" reaction from most first time passengers.I think the difference is levels of isolation - most of the cars discussed are excessively "mature" in their delivery because the market has been suffering from a maturity crisis with everyone wanting the car to be quiet, everyday friendly and do everything for them.
To feel fast and excite, a car needs to give an impression of lots of things happening quickly.
I felt similarly to you when I moved from a relatively fast FI car to my first fast NA car. It's probably the torque hit you've come to like so much, which some of the cars you've mentioned certainly won't have.
I think certain engines suit certain power delivery methods, e.g. I'm really not interested in having a bucket load of torque come in suddenly with a RWD car, while in a 4WD car that can make things much more entertaining. I've always wondered what the B7 RS4 with 4WD is like with a high-revving linear NA engine. To me, that feels like a boring combination, but it can't be given how well regarded they are. As I've gotten older, things like sound have become much more important to me, which a V8 generally wins hands down.
I think certain engines suit certain power delivery methods, e.g. I'm really not interested in having a bucket load of torque come in suddenly with a RWD car, while in a 4WD car that can make things much more entertaining. I've always wondered what the B7 RS4 with 4WD is like with a high-revving linear NA engine. To me, that feels like a boring combination, but it can't be given how well regarded they are. As I've gotten older, things like sound have become much more important to me, which a V8 generally wins hands down.
RobM77 said:
With the right induction and exhaust they can sound wonderful, and they're a bit more raw than the cars you test drove.
for the track maybe to add to the 'racing' atmospherebut your 'right' exhaust on the streets is an advertisement to lose even more rights. Even the manufacturer's noise cheating devices are now banned on new cars (louder pipes were alreay illegal for years in the UK)
Now imagine if responsible owners had only pressed the button for 'track mode' on a track
surely given the cost, the engineering noise under the hood is more important than enhancing the escaping or incoming gas sound with cheap metal pipe?
oilspill said:
RobM77 said:
With the right induction and exhaust they can sound wonderful, and they're a bit more raw than the cars you test drove.
for the track maybe to add to the 'racing' atmospherebut your 'right' exhaust on the streets is an advertisement to lose even more rights. Even the manufacturer's noise cheating devices are now banned on new cars (louder pipes were alreay illegal for years in the UK)
Now imagine if responsible owners had only pressed the button for 'track mode' on a track
surely given the cost, the engineering noise under the hood is more important than enhancing the escaping or incoming gas sound with cheap metal pipe?
RobM77 said:
I was trying to think of ways for the OP to answer his dilemma. This wouldn't be my route at all!!
the answer, (if you're underwhelmed by a modern V8) is to remove the sound proofing from the bulkhead and bonnet 
I grew up close to Rover V8s , Ford V6s, 70s Porsche 911s, Beetles, Mini Vans, 2CVs, and they were all distinguishable from across the road or drive-by , by their actual engine noises not their exhaust notes.
I recently went to a classic car meeting and there wasn't a Mini or 70s Porsche 911 there that produced their original retro sound. 911s have become too clattery with their after market tubing. Minis with cherry bombs and old Pecos could have been anything with your eyes closed..
Go to a boy racer car meet or supercar sounds London and you cant distinguish models by the engine noise. It's all about enhancing explosions down a large metal tube these days. I can do that in my back yard for pocket money and tell the neighbours have a Merc or Lambo out there with the flaps open .
RX-7 with LS3/LS7 V8 conversion and twin turbos ~ 1000bhp 1300kg car. Should easilt be possible for £40K http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/03/faster-than-a-...
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