RE: The BMW M3s you've never heard of

RE: The BMW M3s you've never heard of

Author
Discussion

Amirhussain

11,486 posts

162 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
Wish BMW built this
cool


s m

23,164 posts

202 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
thatsprettyshady said:
Don't forget the E46 M3 GTR,



Only 10 made, stonking great V8 and a 250k price tag.
No mention of the E36 CSL either


Amirhussain

11,486 posts

162 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
s m said:
thatsprettyshady said:
Don't forget the E46 M3 GTR,



Only 10 made, stonking great V8 and a 250k price tag.
No mention of the E36 CSL either

Isn't that the lightweight? Did BMW make an E36 M3 CSL?

myhandle

1,180 posts

173 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
The best M3s you've never heard of ... if you have no interest whatsoever in BMW M cars. These must have been in 15 different articles. Good to see the M3 Lightweight E36 US version and the V8 E46 M3 mentioned by two posters, these two look sensational, to my mind the only E36 and E46 that capture what the E30 M3 was all about, both in looks and in nature.

These special M3s do at least show that underneath all the diesel stuff BMW does have some engineers who enjoy special cars. They must be so frustrated producing the cars they are told to produce. The design process for something like a 320d has more in common with designing a new pharmaceutical product or a pro-forma legal defence than it does with the design process of the E30 M3.

As an aside, today a white X6M with nicely applied DTM style M livery came driving past. This car was clearly enthusiast owned and is a high performance luxury car, not unlike the E23 745i or the 3.0Si. Yet the X6M gets abuse from so-called enthusiasts while something like a 123d is somehow accepted as being in any way desirable. Bizarre.
Edited by myhandle on Tuesday 27th September 22:25


Edited by myhandle on Tuesday 27th September 22:28


Edited by myhandle on Tuesday 27th September 22:29


Edited by myhandle on Tuesday 27th September 22:32

s m

23,164 posts

202 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
Amirhussain said:
s m said:
thatsprettyshady said:
Don't forget the E46 M3 GTR,



Only 10 made, stonking great V8 and a 250k price tag.
No mention of the E36 CSL either

Isn't that the lightweight? Did BMW make an E36 M3 CSL?
It was certainly called the Lightweight in the U.S. - derived from the 'L' in CSL

E36 M3 CSL was the internal BMW designation and is also show on the documentation like the build sheet and Handbook supplement

Anyway, mere details, but perhaps another M3 some haven't heard of

leglessAlex

5,383 posts

140 months

Tuesday 27th September 2016
quotequote all
AW10 said:
I suspect they would have sold a lot more had the touring been available at the same time as the saloon. It didn't come out until 2007 and the credit crunch and rising fuel prices all but killed off M5 sales in 2008 onward.
Interesting, I hadn't realised that.

It does make the "but they don't sell!" line a bit of a cop out if true. I mean, I have always accepted what BMW say as being accurate enough, they're a company and they exist to make money. Sounds reasonable they would drop a line that doesn't make them (much) money. But at the same time, Mercedes and Audi have always offered the go-faster editions in estate and Audi have even gone further to make them only estates.

myhandle

1,180 posts

173 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all
[quote=s m]

It was certainly called the Lightweight in the U.S. - derived from the 'L' in CSL

E36 M3 CSL was the internal BMW designation and is also show on the documentation like the build sheet and Handbook supplement

Anyway, mere details, but perhaps another M3 some haven't heard of[/quote
I cannot express how cool this seemed to me when it came out - great looks and light weight. The low powered US engine even made it seem more like some kind of highly strung racer than the big-power Euro models. The M colours look so good, and when it's a factory sanctioned pattern it is even better.

As for the the M3 GT of the E36 era, I am not convinced BRG was the right colour, and it being the only BMW with clear front indicators and orange rears annoys me - thereby semi-legitimising 100,000 cack-handed modified E36s, but apparently it's a good car. As mentioned by a previous poster, the U.K. version was very much a diluted version of the real car, but which looked similar. An M3 that is not well know but not on this list is the E36 Evo Imola Red edition (E39 M5 colour) which really looks super and deserved to be a very valuable car.


Edited by myhandle on Wednesday 28th September 00:05

Rensko

237 posts

105 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all
The forgotten about M3-R which was sold in Australi - courtesy of http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=14

They come up for sale from time to time and bring really strong money!

What is an E36 M3-R?

In late 1994, BMW Australia ordered 15 special road-going E36 M3-R models to compete in the Australian Super Production series (GT Production class). Originally built as standard M3 models on the normal German production line, these cars were converted to M3-R specification by Frank Gardiner Racing in Australia and were all completed in March and April of 1995. All 15 coupes are painted Alpine White III (300) with an Anthracite M cloth/Amaretta suede interior, plus the following unique features:

-A retuned version of the 2,990-cc S50 B30 powerplant developed in conjunction with BMW M GmbH and Schnitzer Motorsport GmbH featuring different camshafts, revised intake and exhaust ports, a lightened flywheel and a dual-pickup oil sump (as used in the later S50 B32 motor) . With these changes, the engine was re-rated at 324 hp (DIN) at 7,200 rpm and 258 lb/ft of torque at 4,400 rpm.

-Stronger drivershaft from the E31 850Ci
-Shorter 3.23 final drive
-Reinforced AP Racing clutch
-Top speed limiter removed
-Stiffer BMW Group N springs and shocks
-Larger AP Racing front brake rotors with four-piston calipers, stock rear rotors with AP Racing calipers
-Adjustable front and rear GT spoilers with additional rear rubber lip extensions
-M cross-spoke alloy wheels, sized 7.5x17-inch (front) and 8.5x17-inch (rear)
-Fog lights delete
-Rear "M3" badge delete
-Air conditioning delete
-Radio delete
-Central locking delete
-Check Control system delete
-Non-functional rear seat
-Individually-numbered silver plaque under the parking brake handle

Escy

3,906 posts

148 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all
Another worth mentioning was the AC Schnitzer CLS. Only a handful were made, they were very expensive. The body was carbon fibre/kevlar, carbon bucket seats, Stack dash, etc. It's the ultimate M3 for me.



http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=53...

I used to own this, same kevlar widebody, alloys, coilovers and exhaust. The invoice showed £22k of options which made the car a 66k M3 in 1999, you can imagine how much more the full on CLS was.



Edited by Escy on Wednesday 28th September 00:58

Löyly

17,990 posts

158 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all
myhandle said:
As an aside, today a white X6M with nicely applied DTM style M livery came driving past. This car was clearly enthusiast owned and is a high performance luxury car, not unlike the E23 745i or the 3.0Si. Yet the X6M gets abuse from so-called enthusiasts while something like a 123d is somehow accepted as being in any way desirable. Bizarre.
Edited by myhandle on Tuesday 27th September 22:25


Edited by myhandle on Tuesday 27th September 22:28


Edited by myhandle on Tuesday 27th September 22:29


Edited by myhandle on Tuesday 27th September 22:32
The 123d probably deserves some recognition for being at least a decent drive. In fact, BMW put a lot of effort into developing half decent diesels after the year 2000. It may not be thrilling or sexy but as an everyday tool it is pretty impressive. I can't imagine needing much more grunt on a commute whilst getting 45mpg.

The X6M on the other hand is shouty and crass. It is undoubtedly an astounding engine plonked into an ungainly machine. I wonder though if it would appeal to a real 'enthusiast'. I suppose it depends on the kind of enthusiast you have in mind. When I think of that term, I see the logical buyer with a grasp of the engineering. I would imagine that buyer would first be drawn to the coupes and saloons in the range, benefitting from a natural predisposition to better handling by means of lower CoG and all that. The X6M seems more 'promising footballer'. Top of the range engine wrapped up in a bang-on-trend and hideously ghastly SUV shell.

TOOMANYMS

43 posts

161 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all
JTSmith said:
It always perplexes me a to why BMW refuse to make fast estates.... Yet they are willing to make monstrosities like the X6 (because they fill a 'market niche')
E61 Touring M5 wasnt fast??

raceboy

13,081 posts

279 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all
myhandle said:
An M3 that is not well know but not on this list is the E36 Evo Imola Red edition (E39 M5 colour) which really looks super and deserved to be a very valuable car.
The M3 GT2, it was nice, but only really an end of model run out model, you got the GT class 2 rear spoiler and the front corner splitters from the GT, the best colour and a great interior and high spec as standard but there wasn't any performance goodies. driving

shalmaneser

5,930 posts

194 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all
s m said:
Amirhussain said:
s m said:
thatsprettyshady said:
Don't forget the E46 M3 GTR,



Only 10 made, stonking great V8 and a 250k price tag.
No mention of the E36 CSL either

Isn't that the lightweight? Did BMW make an E36 M3 CSL?
It was certainly called the Lightweight in the U.S. - derived from the 'L' in CSL

E36 M3 CSL was the internal BMW designation and is also show on the documentation like the build sheet and Handbook supplement

Anyway, mere details, but perhaps another M3 some haven't heard of
It was also based on the rather crappy US spec M3 with it's 'not really a M-Engine' S52.

BFleming

3,589 posts

142 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all
The E36 M3 Compact was fairly well publicised in Germany when I lived there in the 90's. They built 2 - one went to the museum, one was given away to a competition winner in Auto Motor & Sport magazine (German publication). There have been plenty built since by privateers, but if you're looking for a fast Compact look for the LHD only 323ti (2.5 M52 engine from the 323i) or one of the numerous conversions. An E46 325ti is no slouch either...

Matt Bird

1,450 posts

204 months

PH Reportery Lad

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all
thatsprettyshady said:
Don't forget the E46 M3 GTR,



Only 10 made, stonking great V8 and a 250k price tag.
Love those! I seem to remember it being on a Gran Turismo? Should have made the list so thanks for the inclusion.

Cheers,


Matt

CaptainMorgan

1,454 posts

158 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all
TOOMANYMS said:
E61 Touring M5 wasnt fast??
Of course it was, that was it though, one, nearly ten years ago. E46/E91/F31 and F10 all could have been made an estate and sold well I think.

I love 63 NP, really well done conversion. I always seem to favour the 4 door saloons over the coupe, I'd have the E90 M3 over the E92 for sure.

monthefish

20,439 posts

230 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all


Were those black lips on the trailing edges standard? Don't remember seeing these on any other GT or Imola version

s m

23,164 posts

202 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
quotequote all
shalmaneser said:
s m said:
Amirhussain said:
s m said:
thatsprettyshady said:
Don't forget the E46 M3 GTR,



Only 10 made, stonking great V8 and a 250k price tag.
No mention of the E36 CSL either

Isn't that the lightweight? Did BMW make an E36 M3 CSL?
It was certainly called the Lightweight in the U.S. - derived from the 'L' in CSL

E36 M3 CSL was the internal BMW designation and is also show on the documentation like the build sheet and Handbook supplement

Anyway, mere details, but perhaps another M3 some haven't heard of
It was also based on the rather crappy US spec M3 with it's 'not really a M-Engine' S52.
Very true - although it was the 3-litre S50US in the CSL/LTW rather than the later S52

No matter what we might think though, still an M3 not everyone's heard of

culpz

4,881 posts

111 months

Thursday 29th September 2016
quotequote all
That E36 M3 Compact would have been a great car considering how good a car the 325ti appears to be. Heard nothing but good things about them.

It's always baffled me why BMW never went ahead with the M3 touring in any/all generations. They let Audi run away with the market place quite frankly and i'm sure they're kicking themselves to this day.

Leins

9,415 posts

147 months

Thursday 29th September 2016
quotequote all
culpz said:
That E36 M3 Compact would have been a great car considering how good a car the 325ti appears to be. Heard nothing but good things about them.

It's always baffled me why BMW never went ahead with the M3 touring in any/all generations. They let Audi run away with the market place quite frankly and i'm sure they're kicking themselves to this day.
325ti was actually the later E46, it was the LHD-only 323ti that was an E36. I really liked the earlier Compacts myself, but people got a bit snooty about them due to the E30 rear suspension and older style dash

As for performance estates, on the whole BMW have seemed to be more than happy to allow Alpina fulfill the demand for these