RE: Fanning the 911 R's flames: PH Blog

RE: Fanning the 911 R's flames: PH Blog

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Discussion

E65Ross

34,941 posts

211 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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VVOODY said:
E65Ross said:
VVOODY said:
WCZ said:
E65Ross said:
Do you really believe this? I'm willing to bet most A4 2.0 tdi or A6 2.0 tdi drivers don't even know what an RS4 or RS6 is!
I disagree
Not most but certainly a good chunk, Premium brands are purchased by a huge number of non-car people. I have come accross a number of people who drive "top of the range Audis"....which are fitted with 2.0 TDI motor
The fact that they think they're 2.0 tdi is top of the range would suggest they don't know about the RS4/6 models, no?
Exactly my point yes I was agreeing with you E65.


Edited by VVOODY on Wednesday 28th September 14:31
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CS Garth

2,860 posts

104 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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thegreenhell said:
The car is only so hyped because the market is currently so hyped. Porsche could probably paint a dog turd in stripes and call it a limited edition 911 and the production run would sell out before most people knew it was even available.

That isn't to say that the 991 R doesn't live up to its hype as a drivers' car, but I suspect that most owners will never find out.

It's just the latest tulip bulb.
So in summary it may or may not be a turd, it probably isn't a turd but most people can't get their hands on the alleged turd to find out. But the turd is actually a tulip bulb.


DonkeyApple

54,921 posts

168 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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justboxsters said:
I'll tell you why. It's to prop up the residual values of there entire range.

Meaning you can finance any Porsche, no matter how ludicrously priced for a "sensible" monthly figure. Safe in the knowledge some muppet will pay over the odds for a used car at the end of the deal.

These dream cars like the R, are simply high-end aspiration devices designed to drive sales of Porches regular models. Like an RS6 is to the majority of sale that are a 2.0TDI S-Line with 20" wheels.

This car bubble we're in will all fall on ints face soon enough. Especially seen as young people just don't have the car-fanantsism pre-millennials had. What happened to 50% depreciation in 3 years? Now they're selling more new cars than ever, HOW can used prices remain strong.

They can't is the simple answer. It'll be like the rush on Northern Rock soon. I used to love Porsche. But I hate everything about them now.

Edited by justboxsters on Wednesday 28th September 11:22


Edited by justboxsters on Wednesday 28th September 11:22
It's the big cultural shift. Legendary manufacturers used to flog boggo cars to give them enough money to make the real thing, today they knock out a few top end cars as a means to flog more boggo cars. Obviously it's always been a fine line but we are catagorically over the line now where the pinnacle car exists as a sales and marketing tool to the core business instead of actually being the core business.

Obviously it means far better cars and more access to them and as democratisation hoes it is a good thing but the soul and passion of the silliest and most aspirational cars has gone for the time being.

W4NTED

688 posts

213 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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I think the motoring press should refuse to review car's that are not available to the general public! Porsche are bds and I hate their marketing tactics.

It's such a shame that real enthusiasts are over looked to people who have huge followings on social media accounts or who have spent a good few £££s with them.

I genuinely wanted one of these - TO DRIVE and not to flip but any enquiries to a few dealers were literally laughed at - whats the fkin point!

MDL111

6,892 posts

176 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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I think it would not be that difficult to re-create the driving experience of the new R (and likely create an even better one) by using a 997 GT3 as base car and throwing some money at it. Of course most people will not do that as ultimately I suspect it is not only the driving experience that counts for most (even the ones who say that want one only to drive and values are not important at all). Currently do not have the money to do this, but might have a go at it in the future.

Rip out sound deadening and recover in carpet, maybe a few lightweight panels (hood, roof, bumpers), full Akrapovic titanium exhaust, lightweight carbon buckets covered in "pretty" cloth, lightweight forged wheels, PCCB brakes, proper suspension, plastic rear window, a standard Carrera retractable rear spoiler, respray in a nice historic colour, etc. - at the end you probably have a car that is lighter than an R and looks just as good. Could even get somebody (Sharkwerks, Manthey, RS Tuning etc) to bore out the engine to 4.0/4.2 litres to have the same/more power and a nigh on 9k redline. Voila your very own 911R type car for say 200k Euros, so about what you would have paid list for the R (in Germany).

Of course it won't be worth 200k on the open market as it is no longer original .... but that is not important anyway if most "I am a driver/enthusiast, not an investor" people are to be believed

Quickmoose

4,482 posts

122 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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I think there are literally hundreds of cars aren't I can't afford and will never own...boo hoo.
Yet a few decent cars I have owned and will have the chance to in the future...yey!
I'm going to choose to revel in, and enjoy, my past and present driving experiences and look forward to, and perhaps dream a little, of the one yet to come...

I'm posting this again because it's great entertainment for car enthusiasts, whilst perhaps not so much fun for those flipper/investors whose noses are out of joint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EbbxWI7UvA

CABC

5,528 posts

100 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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thegreenhell said:
It's just the latest tulip bulb.
i hope so.
i'd gladly pay 10k for one and run it forever.
in fact that would be the mark of a true petrolhead; buying it expecting it to depreciate like any other rust bucket for the joy it gave you while alive.

swisstoni

16,845 posts

278 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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Anyone remember Von Dutch hats?

Impasse

15,099 posts

240 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
It's just strange the the minutes of a Haymarket editorial meeting become a story in their own right.

DonkeyApple

54,921 posts

168 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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Quickmoose said:
I think there are literally hundreds of cars aren't I can't afford and will never own...boo hoo.
Yet a few decent cars I have owned and will have the chance to in the future...yey!
I'm going to choose to revel in, and enjoy, my past and present driving experiences and look forward to, and perhaps dream a little, of the one yet to come...

I'm posting this again because it's great entertainment for car enthusiasts, whilst perhaps not so much fun for those flipper/investors whose noses are out of joint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EbbxWI7UvA
That's a very enjoyable video. By all accounts, if you buy this car and then don't drive it you are some kind of specialist tit.

6 years ago the Board at Porsche were very worried that they weren't going to be able to move the 911 price up behind its competition due to the impact of all the cheap Porsche badges littering urban street corners. They had two options, drop the cheap, non performance models or find another way to move the 911 up in the desirability stakes. They do really seem to have achieved the latter. They seem in a roll the last few years. Long may it continue.

DonkeyApple

54,921 posts

168 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Arguably, Rolex were the pioneers with their range of jumped up fanny bangles.

gm77

98 posts

119 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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The R confuses me. Wouldn't the enthusiast rather have a 997 GT3 (or better still, the RS) for its hydraulic steering, and 2 wheel (rather than 4 wheel) steering? I appreciate its down on power and rev range, but overall, isn't the older car the more enjoyable one?

gm77

98 posts

119 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
I agree the business plan is brilliant.

Silly question though - if the enthusiasts choice is a 997GT3RS (just checked - you can get one for £150k now), why would you care if the R was no longer available unless you had intended to flip it?

Jimmy Recard

17,540 posts

178 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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The 911R is the only 911 that has ever interested me at all and I think it's fantastic. Really lovely (apart from the front end, of course). I couldn't give a toss for any of the others though.


So I do feel pretty disappointed that I won't be able to have one. And it makes my opinion of Porsche ever more negative - it almost seems contemptuous.

swisstoni

16,845 posts

278 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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Couldn't you buy a 997 and fix it up to do 90% of what this car does? Forget the carbon and magnesium and ceramics.
The main thing seems to be the manual gearbox and the sound of the thing.

J4CKO

41,280 posts

199 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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swisstoni said:
Couldn't you buy a 997 and fix it up to do 90% of what this car does? Forget the carbon and magnesium and ceramics.
The main thing seems to be the manual gearbox and the sound of the thing.
Yeah, trouble is, it isnt "official", I suspect many folk on the likes of our own Readers cars or Retro rides etc build/modify their stuff so that is as fast and engaging, possibly more so but people like known quantities, model numbers and brands, partially so they know where they are in the pecking order, and also not everyone has the time, inclination or skills to successfully modify something else.






Ozzie Osmond

21,189 posts

245 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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swisstoni said:
Couldn't you buy a 997 and fix it up to do 90% of what this car does?
I'm not sure any of these uber-priced Porsches are really "worth" the asking price - unless that's the way people like to try to impress their mates. For most purposes once you're in a decent sportscar you're in a decent sportscar.

sidesauce

2,456 posts

217 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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Krikkit said:
sidesauce said:
E65Ross said:
I think you'll find some did!
There was grumbling but no way near the same level as Porsche has got with the R. I don't just mean on Pistonheads, I'm talking about all the more popular car forums.
I would guess because at £260k before markup the 675 is a whole new ball-game compared to the "mere" 140k 911R. Your extra hundred k buys a significant amount more exclusivity built-in, especially for the rarified, carbon-built cars compared to a 911 with a special engine.
Maybe a special engine but not a unique one as it's available in a GT3RS. Carbon-built cars are no longer rarified, one can purchase a brand new Alfa Romeo 4C nowadays for just over £50k. Regardless of the price difference between an LT and an R, my point still stands.

There's a very strong sense of entitlement people have which to me makes no sense. Whether one has the money to buy a £140k car or a £260k car, a manufacturer is under no obligation to sell any more than they want to sell. If people want to throw their toys out of the pram then fine but Porsche know that they'll have another customer to replace them.

Gorbyrev

1,160 posts

153 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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Welcome to the world of manufactured provenance. No-one expected duck tailed RS's to skyrocket or GT2's. For now Porsche has mastered the art of creating instant collectability based on previous models acceleration into the investment portfolios of those who have. Do we applaud them? Of course not, we are not invited to the party. But just as Ferrari "invite" certain owners to purchase their more exclusive models, so Porsche have managed to rarify brand new metal. That, in itself, if quite an achievement. It is not meant for us, it is meant for a market that is exclusive by nature and definition and, lets be honest, many of us would be taking our hard earned to Singer before buying a 911R at current prices. So much of this is perception, not real value, though at the day's end, a car is still worth what someone is willing to pay for it. So, for now, well done Porsche. So long as these insights are fed into future products we may see similar metal falling in value to be plucked, 2nd hand from the lower branches. Until then, for the vast majority of us, this will never be for us. And we are left to swap stories of the 993 Turbo or the 996 GT3 that got away.

texr2000

59 posts

108 months

Wednesday 28th September 2016
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rampageturke said:
E65Ross said:
Do you really believe this? I'm willing to bet most A4 2.0 tdi or A6 2.0 tdi drivers don't even know what an RS4 or RS6 is!
The s-line amg-line st-line and all those exist for a reason, people want the sportier look, maybe they don't know what an RS6 is, but they sure as hell know what one looks like, and it looks like the s-line
I work for Mercedes and would have to agree with this, customer often refer to their C220CDI AMG Line as a AMG, or i got the AMG model, or my E Class AMG..... If it has the tractor like 651 4 pot diesel in then its not a AMG its a few badges, wheels and bumpers on a normal car.
Im sure many tell their mate they got a new A/C/E Class AMG and brag about it and their friends are let down when its not a loud A45/C63/E63