RE: Fanning the 911 R's flames: PH Blog

RE: Fanning the 911 R's flames: PH Blog

Author
Discussion

Roma101

835 posts

146 months

Thursday 29th September 2016
quotequote all
alock said:
It's a car designed for the British market. To get one new you had to join a queue.
A queue that almost all would never get to the front of.

Someone above suggested that cars like the R would encourage people to buy standard Porsches, perhaps one day with a view to maybe being at the front of the queue. Personally, I considered joining that queue but thought, "I'm not spending hundreds of thousand of pounds over the next few years so that I can maybe be at the front of the queue for the next R". Life is too short, so I went and bought a decent car (from another manufacturer) that I can drive now and saved a lot of money (and probably my marriage!).

Porsche need to tread carefully, as their reputation is taking a beating. Not just for all of this stuff, but also, I hear, in terms of general customer service.

Sorry for regurgitating the usual arguments, but PH started it!

gigglebug

2,611 posts

121 months

Thursday 29th September 2016
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the 991R distinguished from it's motorsport derived siblings by the fact that it has purposely been tuned for road use only as oppose to road/track? I know they aren't exactly covering themselves in glory but Porsche are at least extremely competent at developing and calibrating their products for their specific roles.

peter450

1,650 posts

232 months

Thursday 29th September 2016
quotequote all
I think a lot of it is being driven by the surge in classic prices, by creating super ltd edition halo models you generate a lot of hype but also due to the prices of classics your now getting a buyers frenzy as well. These cars are going to be the last of the N/A 911's and with people looking at prices of older Porsche classics I'm sure their are more than a few of them going hmm I can buy a new one and it's not going to depreciate either.

It's only recently that theirs been so much drama around this issue 8 or 9 years ago a lot of special editions were being labelled as overpriced versions of the cars on which they were based.

MajorMantra

1,265 posts

111 months

Thursday 29th September 2016
quotequote all
Impasse said:
It's just strange the the minutes of a Haymarket editorial meeting become a story in their own right.
It's a blog post responding to all the whining in the comments on the last 911R article, which seems perfectly reasonable to me. I think it shows that PH actually listens to its readers.

av185

18,433 posts

126 months

Thursday 29th September 2016
quotequote all
Roma101 said:
Porsche need to tread carefully, as their reputation is taking a beating. Not just for all of this stuff, but also, I hear, in terms of general customer service.
Really? A beating from who......those who haven't secured a build slot?

Which specific area of customer service have you experienced which is lacking?

g7jhp

6,959 posts

237 months

Thursday 29th September 2016
quotequote all
WCZ said:
E65Ross said:
Do you really believe this? I'm willing to bet most A4 2.0 tdi or A6 2.0 tdi drivers don't even know what an RS4 or RS6 is!
I disagree
I'd imagine a fair amount of people (including non-car) want the look of the RS4/RS6 (they may or may not know what the RS4/RS6 are) but balk at the price of buying and then running one.

They satisfy themselves with an A4/A6 TDI S-Line version which has 90% of the look (to the untrained eye) and is cheap to run (on fuel and car tax).

It's a social standing thing. Pathetic.

You see it all the time with people in their new SUV's on latest reg plates!

The 991 R is a lovely car and I hope this exercise will persuade Porsche to do more true specials and manuals. Would be great to revisit the ClubSport next.

Ozzie Osmond

21,189 posts

245 months

Thursday 29th September 2016
quotequote all
Roma101 said:
Porsche need to tread carefully, as their reputation is taking a beating.
Any evidence to support that?

Rolls Royce and Bentley seem to have done very nicely out of shifting from the "scarce and refined English gentleman" market to the "bling it up in West London" market. Have their reputations taken a beating? And if so, do they care?

CABC

5,529 posts

100 months

Thursday 29th September 2016
quotequote all
Ozzie Osmond said:
Roma101 said:
Porsche need to tread carefully, as their reputation is taking a beating.
Any evidence to support that?

Rolls Royce and Bentley seem to have done very nicely out of shifting from the "scarce and refined English gentleman" market to the "bling it up in West London" market. Have their reputations taken a beating? And if so, do they care?
exactly.
the old Porsche crowd and existing Lotus crowd aren't big enough.

isaldiri

18,411 posts

167 months

Thursday 29th September 2016
quotequote all
MDL111 said:
I think it would not be that difficult to re-create the driving experience of the new R (and likely create an even better one) by using a 997 GT3 as base car and throwing some money at it. Of course most people will not do that as ultimately I suspect it is not only the driving experience that counts for most (even the ones who say that want one only to drive and values are not important at all). Currently do not have the money to do this, but might have a go at it in the future.

Rip out sound deadening and recover in carpet, maybe a few lightweight panels (hood, roof, bumpers), full Akrapovic titanium exhaust, lightweight carbon buckets covered in "pretty" cloth, lightweight forged wheels, PCCB brakes, proper suspension, plastic rear window, a standard Carrera retractable rear spoiler, respray in a nice historic colour, etc. - at the end you probably have a car that is lighter than an R and looks just as good. Could even get somebody (Sharkwerks, Manthey, RS Tuning etc) to bore out the engine to 4.0/4.2 litres to have the same/more power and a nigh on 9k redline. Voila your very own 911R type car for say 200k Euros, so about what you would have paid list for the R (in Germany).

Of course it won't be worth 200k on the open market as it is no longer original .... but that is not important anyway if most "I am a driver/enthusiast, not an investor" people are to be believed
^this.

The real reason why most of the people ranting and raving about not being able to get the R is the ludicrous overs the car command I'd suspect and little to do with the actual driving aspects of the car.

Durzel

12,232 posts

167 months

Thursday 29th September 2016
quotequote all
Porsche and other marques that do this aren't idiots.

As far as the 911 goes, given how long it's been around and how little (comparatively) changes about it with each generation and yet still sells hand over fist I'd wager that it is probably the perfect example of a product that is stage managed to perfection. The 911 and its myriad special editions is to Porsche what the iPhone is to Apple.

There is definitely a fine balance when it comes to a special edition like this (any special edition in fact) in so much as the appeal of it to many is the fact it is limited. Saying "oh you could just make an extra 25,000 then everyone's happy" is incredibly naive to the grander objectives at play.

A strictly limited car in an "ideal spec for enthusiasts" is exactly the sort of thing that creates a storm of media publicity, which is in and of itself worth money to Porsche, perhaps more than selling an extra 1000 units. For all the bluff and bluster from existing customers and spectators alike I very much doubt it would change anything in terms of them making overtures to their dealer the next time another 911 is released, or whatever.

That's even before touching on the concept that all this publicity, the flipping, the residuals confers benefits to owners of the other models, which in turn increases confidence throughout the range, etc.

As said - it's a very precisely managed thing by a company that have had considerable experience now in doing it. It's not punitive, even if it seems like it is.

Edited by Durzel on Thursday 29th September 10:52

gigglebug

2,611 posts

121 months

Thursday 29th September 2016
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
My point was that the R was tuned for road driving as it's focus as oppose to the GT3/Rs which both made concessions in their set-ups for track use it so has a different feeling to it. My response was really to elaborate on the question you had answered as to why folks wouldn't just buy the older cars instead. Maybe motorsport derived was the wrong terminology. Now I can only go on the one person I know who has both tried the R and wanted to buy one but he was pretty smitten with it by all accounts and he certainly feels it is different enough to the many other Porsches him an his son have bought, from classics right up to a 4.0RS, to make it worth having one. I accept that they are well in the minority though in regards that they do love and use all their cars as oppose to seeing them as investments.

Edited by gigglebug on Thursday 29th September 12:44

jl4069

195 posts

101 months

Sunday 2nd October 2016
quotequote all
Gandahar said:
The problem here is that Porsche have claimed it is the road car enthusiast drivers car and yet even after removing all the aero stuff still they put on 20 inch wheels with 305 section back tyres? for a road car? Go figure, they are obsessed with the times still.

Do the Porsche 911R with

No aero
the standard GT3 engine that revs to 9000.
PDK or manual
Small light 18 inch wheels, 265 on the back.
Call it the Carerra CS in homage to the 1980's under rated version.

Price £99,999 and build 5000 of them. Everyone's happy. It would be like the Sierra Cosworth again. Make them all black or white.

Now that is more an every mans Porsche.

OK Fantasy Island disappears into the mist........
But what Porsche will really do is make a "CS" model. Make it look similar to an 80's model and maybe even put "throwback" Hydraulic steering in to really make it a great drive and then.... charge Singer money -maybe 300k- for a "true classic".


Edited by jl4069 on Sunday 2nd October 21:17

roland82

257 posts

214 months

Monday 3rd October 2016
quotequote all
I have to start by saying I will never be in a position to buy a normal 911 let alone the R. My disappointment, not anger is for Porsche's treatment of thousands of 911 buyers being funneled in to purchasing an 'inferior' car at still near 100k a pop when they could 'just' make more Rs.. It doesn't feel very consumer friendly to me. I fully understand this could be a case of being offended on behalf of others but Porsche is a company I've looked up to and respected for around 25 years and this behavior seems shoddy to me.