Why do these dirty Diesels have to be so damn fast??

[xjay1337]

ChilliWhizz said:

Their very presence boils my pi**

Where are the mods when you need one huh?

Quarter mile times for a diesel, for God's sake, what the feck is the world coming to.....

Why are you in a thread about diesels then?

And who are you to tell other people what they do with their cars, diesel or otherwise. Are you that arrogant to think your opinion matters so much that everyone should listen to you?

[Elysium]

philmots said:

IMO the only reason to have a diesel over petrol is mpg, and even then you need to be doing some proper mileage for it to make sense. Again IMO.

I used to think the same, but I am not sure it is true anymore.

I have an Audi A6 BiTDI. There is no equivalent petrol car in their range so I would need to move to an s6 or accept a loss of performance. Unfortunately, buying a new s6 is an expensive game as the residuals are not great plus the performance difference does not justify the cost. I could get an RS6, but frankly I don't think the extra power is worth it in a big heavy barge. The law of diminishing returns applies.

On that basis, the only other option for me is a 535d or 535i. Audi made the decision easier for me by sticking a sound generator in the exhaust that makes a rumbly v8'ish noise.

The 535i noise is not that great as the direct injection BMW engines are a bit 'tappety'. It's also a turbo which means it will not feel massively different to a twin turbo diesel on the road. The lower torque will also mean that it will feel less punchy on the road in most situations.

So .. given the choice of cars before me choosing anything other than the diesel is difficult to justify.

Since I get free private fuel MPG is not a massive part of my thinking, other than it's nice to be able to do 480 miles on a tank rather than the 300 or so I would get from a petrol equivalent (if I could find one).

Edited by Elysium on Friday 30th September 09:57

[SWoll]

Not sure I agree either. I currently run an F10 520d as a company car having previously had an E61 530i as a personal vehicle. In 90% of driving situations I just find the way the 520D delivers it's power far more useable than the 6 cylinder petrol unit. No, it doesn't sound anywhere near as good when pushed, or rev as high, or offer the throttle response but it's perfectly refined and does a great job of cruising around town + motorway munching, returns 45-50MPG on average and will do 600+ miles to a tank of fuel.

[ChilliWhizz]

xjay1337 said:

ChilliWhizz said:

Their very presence boils my pi**

Where are the mods when you need one huh?

Quarter mile times for a diesel, for God's sake, what the feck is the world coming to.....

Why are you in a thread about diesels then?

And who are you to tell other people what they do with their cars, diesel or otherwise. Are you that arrogant to think your opinion matters so much that everyone should listen to you?

Very sorry you're offended, didn't realise humour wasn't allowed in this thread

[SuperchargedVR6]

fossilfuelled said:

I reckon he rebadged something a bit tasty.

I was on the autobahn in a 997 Turbo recently, and a golf something or other kept up with me to 180 mph. Yes. 180 mph GOLF....WTF!? He didn't even drop back very much as I pressed the loud pedal. He pretty much kept up! Who knew?

There are some crazy Golfs in Germany. Lots of R32 twin turbos and the like. At 180mph, I would much rather be in a 997 than a Golf though. It can stop far quicker for one thing, and it was designed to do 200mph, and has 200mph tyres. The Golf was probably on H rated all seasons

[Merc 450]

VF7 said:

I know that on PetrolHeads.com there is a lot more love for Diesels in the last few years, but I still can't stand them.
Yes, you will most likely find a few good argument for the devils juice but I still don't like Diesels. Even more so I hate Diesel!
I don't like the clatter, I don't like smell, I don't like how they pollute the city's and I don't like having only 3k rpms.
But I do hate how quick they seemingly are!

A short story:
I was driving my 10 years old Audi S4 with a big 4.2l V8. 340 bhp and 300 lb·ft has been a lot of power not quit long ago.
And yes I know the car is heavy at 1.8 tons and no sportscar and that everybody keeps saying they are slow (155mph and 0-60 in 5.6 sec).
But yesterday I realized that everybody seems to be right!!

Have have been getting on the Autobahn. A sharp corner before the acceleration lane meant one was going at ~ 30mph.
Once on the acceleration lane and stamped on the gas pedal and the automatic in sport mode took care of the rest.
Just before I accelerated hard I saw a black Golf 5 in the rear view mirror.
When turning into Lane 1 at 80 mph I realized the Golf is still the same distance from me than before!!! (ok maybe a little bit more behind but not much)
Only from there until ~ 95 mph I could gain a little more room.
Settled for a nice cruising speed at 80 mph and let the Golf overtake me. To my surprise it turned out to be a Golf 5 Variant 2.0 TDI! Only 140 bhp but 240 lb·ft!
I may have been chipped, but looking completely stock I doubt it...

I normally don't care too much for grand prix lights etc. but seeing good old petrol power from a lot of cubic inches being given a hard time by an old clattering, smelly family Diesel estate with a mere 140 horses does hurt my feelings somehow.
Have you encountered similar stories before?

Oh dear where to start, your opinions on diesels seem to be 20 years behind.
My A6 estate has 300hp 0-60 in 5 seconds and 163mph all from a 3 litre Turbo diesel.they don't smell any different or throw out visible fumes.
It has 7 speed paddle shift, sport mode (never needed) luxury interior 20 inch alloys etc. You can even control the exhaust volume on the twin sportline exhausts in the computer under settings/exhaust/volume control.
All in all a lovely car that is more than a match for most others.
Oh and i do like cars i used to own a cerbera which also made a bloody great noise.

[xjay1337]

ChilliWhizz said:

Very sorry you're offended, didn't realise humour wasn't allowed in this thread

I'm not offended, it just didn't come across as humour.

If that's how it was intended, crack on.

[anonymous-user]

ChilliWhizz said:

I think we should round up all these diseasel driving monkeys and make them live in a high security compound on the isle of wight. Or the Isle of Man. No, wait, make that Iceland. Yep Iceland, it's really cold there

I mean, if this was called PetrolHeads not PistonHeads we wouldn't even let them post. Well we wouldn't...would we?

Their very presence boils my pi**

Where are the mods when you need one huh?

Quarter mile times for a diesel, for God's sake, what the feck is the world coming to.....

Turns out that "Diesel Bashing" is the racism of the petrolhead world! it even puts Black coloured stuff out the tailpipe! ;-)

(personally i couldn't give a monkeys what your engine runs on, Gasoline, Diesel or even pure Electrons, a GOOD powertrain is a GOOD powertrain. IMO, the 35d variants from BMW are VERY GOOD powertrains. Without wishing to come over all "powerful company director" on you, i run my own company, have a sufficiently large income to be able to drive pretty much any car i want, and i drive a diesel through choice, because i like the way it drives. I don't care how many mpg it does, but i do care about the silent, easily accessible high performance, low impact (ie you can use the full performance without raising eyebrows) way it goes. I also like just how dam easy it is to slide around,(>600Nm, pick a gear, pretty much any one will do, and because there is no throttle and hence a very fast torque modulation vs accel pedal position, it's probably the easiest car to slide i've ever driven)

In fact, we often joke that modern HiPo Dervs are like owning the first half of a super car, because they make 600Nm to 4000rpm, giving them massive low rpm performance (unfortunately, unlike a real Supercar, they having got the second half (the 600Nm from 4k to 8krpm and hence they make 300bhp not 600bhp......)

[xjay1337]

Max_Torque said:

Without wishing to come over all "powerful company director" on you, i run my own company, have a sufficiently large income to be able to drive pretty much any car i want,

And yet....

[fossilfuelled]

SuperchargedVR6 said:

There are some crazy Golfs in Germany. Lots of R32 twin turbos and the like. At 180mph, I would much rather be in a 997 than a Golf though. It can stop far quicker for one thing, and it was designed to do 200mph, and has 200mph tyres. The Golf was probably on H rated all seasons

Yeah I agree! Must admit it rather took my by surprise. I'd overtaken around 120mph and just kept accelerating, not full throttle, but quick enough to enjoy the miles of empty road ahead and this guy pulls behind me, starts flashing his lights and pretty much keeps pace all the way to 180....only then did the gap start getting really big and my girlfriend starts getting nervous around 200, so we backed off again and the golf went past us a bit later. It's very impressive, but unless he's got big brakes, big tyres and really really good reactions - seems a bit bonkers to use a car like that at those speeds on a road!

[xjay1337]

fossilfuelled said:

Yeah I agree! Must admit it rather took my by surprise. I'd overtaken around 120mph and just kept accelerating, not full throttle, but quick enough to enjoy the miles of empty road ahead and this guy pulls behind me, starts flashing his lights and pretty much keeps pace all the way to 180....only then did the gap start getting really big and my girlfriend starts getting nervous around 200, so we backed off again and the golf went past us a bit later. It's very impressive, but unless he's got big brakes, big tyres and really really good reactions - seems a bit bonkers to use a car like that at those speeds on a road!

Most people will upgrade the brakes.
Plenty of good quality brake upgrades available, I have Aston DB9 calipers on my car. We can also use Cayenne 6 pots, 996 911 Turbo Calipers, Lamborghini Gallardo or Audi RS6 brakes, basically anything 4-8 pot up to 403mm disc, there are also 380mm or something Ceramics available from the Audi RS3. Bit pointless though, a decent 2 piece disc is better.

[ChilliWhizz]

xjay1337 said:

ChilliWhizz said:

Very sorry you're offended, didn't realise humour wasn't allowed in this thread

I'm not offended, it just didn't come across as humour.

If that's how it was intended, crack on.

Aww c'mon, it was a little bit funny

I've never owned a diesel although I've driven a fair few, but the odd thing is just lately I've been strangely drawn towards an A4 Avant 3.0 diesel Quattro to replace my ageing Golf.. Even stranger is that I started looking at S4's (as per the OP's first post but the B5 jobbie) then realised how much less (in theory) the diesel Avant would cost to run, but still have the comfort, room, and a fair turn of speed to boot..... Maybe it's an age (mine) related thing....

[Alex_225]

Fastdruid said:

This is a good thing though because without an auto-box trying to "make progress" in a diesel is more akin to one handed rowing.

Incidentally and back on subject it appears my petrol car is equally as fast as a Golf GTD. Which given that it's about 200Kg more than a GTD and a damn sight bigger is not too shabby. Although I then start thinking about remaps...

Agreed, I wouldn't want a non-auto diesel again. My other half had a 1.6tdci Focus and I owned a 1.9tdi 9-3 and pulling away in them was tiresome. Due to the lack of revs it always felt like you got to about 2mph before having to get into 2nd.

At least in my E class, although it has an older 5 speed auto box when you pull away it clicks into 2nd quickly and keeps pulling through the gears.

[xjay1337]

They're great cars. My friend (who does my tuning) has built a 440+ bhp one. Looks totally stock, runs low 12s all day.
Could do a high 11 if he turned his air con off and wasn't heatsoaked lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu4kzwIDgkk

Looks and sounds totally standard.

[wc98]

fossilfuelled said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

There are some crazy Golfs in Germany. Lots of R32 twin turbos and the like. At 180mph, I would much rather be in a 997 than a Golf though. It can stop far quicker for one thing, and it was designed to do 200mph, and has 200mph tyres. The Golf was probably on H rated all seasons

Yeah I agree! Must admit it rather took my by surprise. I'd overtaken around 120mph and just kept accelerating, not full throttle, but quick enough to enjoy the miles of empty road ahead and this guy pulls behind me, starts flashing his lights and pretty much keeps pace all the way to 180....only then did the gap start getting really big and my girlfriend starts getting nervous around 200, so we backed off again and the golf went past us a bit later. It's very impressive, but unless he's got big brakes, big tyres and really really good reactions - seems a bit bonkers to use a car like that at those speeds on a road!

my brother has a tuned edition 30 that will indicate 175mph. no idea how accurate the speedo is . using the power at lower speeds is another matter entirely though.

[ORD]

Big brakes allow more stops before fade. They dont have a major impact on one big stop. The tyres limit braking, not the brakes.

[Fire99]

I'm not a diesel fan even though I drive one but the first diesel to make me take notice was an Alfa 156 2.4 JTD. Ok it's very old tech compared to the current batch that we're talking about here but the 5-pot engine had a decent growl and even in standard trim the Alfa had a decent amount of forward momentum.

[macajc88]

I recently hired a 435d for a weekend and that was damn fast and even sounded good (if artificially enhanced). Being diesel meant I didn't need to fill up once in over 450 miles either.
Also had a recent encounter with a Passat 2.0 BiTDI 4Motion on my commute and it was more than equal to my mk7 GTI, quicker even

Whereas in the past I would never consider a diesel, recent experiences may at least make me try one back to back with the petrol equivalent, especially if my mileage increases

[AshBurrows]

Max_Torque said:

Without wishing to come over all "powerful company director" on you, i run my own company, have a sufficiently large income to be able to drive pretty much any car i want, and i drive a diesel through choice, because i like the way it drives. I don't care how many mpg it does, but i do care about the silent, easily accessible high performance, low impact (ie you can use the full performance without raising eyebrows) way it goes.

Lmao. Unreal.

[SuperchargedVR6]

xjay1337 said:

fossilfuelled said:

Yeah I agree! Must admit it rather took my by surprise. I'd overtaken around 120mph and just kept accelerating, not full throttle, but quick enough to enjoy the miles of empty road ahead and this guy pulls behind me, starts flashing his lights and pretty much keeps pace all the way to 180....only then did the gap start getting really big and my girlfriend starts getting nervous around 200, so we backed off again and the golf went past us a bit later. It's very impressive, but unless he's got big brakes, big tyres and really really good reactions - seems a bit bonkers to use a car like that at those speeds on a road!

Most people will upgrade the brakes.
Plenty of good quality brake upgrades available, I have Aston DB9 calipers on my car. We can also use Cayenne 6 pots, 996 911 Turbo Calipers, Lamborghini Gallardo or Audi RS6 brakes, basically anything 4-8 pot up to 403mm disc, there are also 380mm or something Ceramics available from the Audi RS3. Bit pointless though, a decent 2 piece disc is better.

I get that. However....A long time ago I had a turboed VR6 Corrado (hence my username), which had all the shiney bits on it. Huge AP Racing brakes, the best tyres available in 17", the best KW coilovers available (at the time), chassis bracing.....everything. That thing was nuts, but it couldn't stop. Sure, it felt like it could stop but believe me, not many cars can deploy immense stopping power like a 911 can. It's a lot more than just uprated calipers and discs. The 911's chassis is just setup way way better for that (and a good deal more) than a Golf will ever be.
Even my mate's old 993 stopped way better than my Corrado did. Way better.

wc98 said:

fossilfuelled said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

There are some crazy Golfs in Germany. Lots of R32 twin turbos and the like. At 180mph, I would much rather be in a 997 than a Golf though. It can stop far quicker for one thing, and it was designed to do 200mph, and has 200mph tyres. The Golf was probably on H rated all seasons

Yeah I agree! Must admit it rather took my by surprise. I'd overtaken around 120mph and just kept accelerating, not full throttle, but quick enough to enjoy the miles of empty road ahead and this guy pulls behind me, starts flashing his lights and pretty much keeps pace all the way to 180....only then did the gap start getting really big and my girlfriend starts getting nervous around 200, so we backed off again and the golf went past us a bit later. It's very impressive, but unless he's got big brakes, big tyres and really really good reactions - seems a bit bonkers to use a car like that at those speeds on a road!

my brother has a tuned edition 30 that will indicate 175mph. no idea how accurate the speedo is . using the power at lower speeds is another matter entirely though.

So have I and I can't see it myself, not without a Racelogic V box to verify. I wouldn't trust a shat nav GPS. I reckon 165ish.