Why do these dirty Diesels have to be so damn fast??
Discussion
Fastdruid said:
Welshbeef said:
Exactly such massive HP from tiny RPMs - petrol engines wouldn't be of any use in oil tankers or locomotives
You do know that there were petrol locomotives?You do also know that the majority are gensets, ie an engine driving a generator and the motors are electric. The engine speed they make power at is utterly irrelevant as they are geared to run at a fixed speed which corresponds to their most efficient range.
The only reason that there aren't any more is that diesel is more economic, nothing to do with anything else.
Two mechanically blown 18-cylinder engines each rated at 1,650 hp (1,230 kW) continuous at 1500 rpm...
Nanook said:
I note he's putting new wheels and tyres on.
Going from a 205 to a 225, which is an extra 2 inches (25mm) apparently!
Sorry Palmer, but I laughed at that.
You wouldnt think my job involves basic maths lmaoGoing from a 205 to a 225, which is an extra 2 inches (25mm) apparently!
Sorry Palmer, but I laughed at that.
Fastdruid said:
(insert endless drivel here)
How do you think it shot the rod ?Its not uncommon for a mechanical injection indirect diesel to rev moderately high.
Google OM606 high revs or something similar to enlighten yourself
#hatersgonnahateFastdruid said:
Awesome things. IIRC both very high power to weight and good efficiency.
That high power to weight ratio means not much metal for the amount of power, hence they're still in service in the GRP hulled Hunt class Mine Countermeasure Ships. Fairly high maintenance though I believe. I've driven large v6 and v8 petrol engined cars pretty much non stop since I passed my test, I think for power delivery, smoothness, noise and driving pleasure in general they cannot be beat. However, with a high performance petrol you also have high performance running costs, as long as the car is road legal you have those running costs 100% of the time but what % of the time can you actually use the full performance of the engine? 5% of the time? Most of the time you're stuck in/or following traffic or in a 30 zone with everyone else.
I decided a while back that as much as I love huge petrol engines with many cylinders I couldn't justify running one any longer hence why I now drive a 4-pot diesel, it may not be the quickest thing in the world but in everyday driving I can make progress just as quickly as my previous car which had a stupid big v8 and it's quick enough to have surprised one or two cars.
I don't actually miss the performance of the v8 because as said above opportunities to use the performance were limited, I do miss the noise however but soon forget about that when I see how much I'm saving on fuel.
I decided a while back that as much as I love huge petrol engines with many cylinders I couldn't justify running one any longer hence why I now drive a 4-pot diesel, it may not be the quickest thing in the world but in everyday driving I can make progress just as quickly as my previous car which had a stupid big v8 and it's quick enough to have surprised one or two cars.
I don't actually miss the performance of the v8 because as said above opportunities to use the performance were limited, I do miss the noise however but soon forget about that when I see how much I'm saving on fuel.njw1 said:
I've driven large v6 and v8 petrol engined cars pretty much non stop since I passed my test, I think for power delivery, smoothness, noise and driving pleasure in general they cannot be beat. However, with a high performance petrol you also have high performance running costs, as long as the car is road legal you have those running costs 100% of the time but what % of the time can you actually use the full performance of the engine? 5% of the time? Most of the time you're stuck in/or following traffic or in a 30 zone with everyone else.
I decided a while back that as much as I love huge petrol engines with many cylinders I couldn't justify running one any longer hence why I now drive a 4-pot diesel, it may not be the quickest thing in the world but in everyday driving I can make progress just as quickly as my previous car which had a stupid big v8 and it's quick enough to have surprised one or two cars. I don't actually miss the performance of the v8 because as said above opportunities to use the performance were limited, I do miss the noise however but soon forget about that when I see how much I'm saving on fuel.
Let me guess fuel costs are 1/4 of the petrol or even better than that?I decided a while back that as much as I love huge petrol engines with many cylinders I couldn't justify running one any longer hence why I now drive a 4-pot diesel, it may not be the quickest thing in the world but in everyday driving I can make progress just as quickly as my previous car which had a stupid big v8 and it's quick enough to have surprised one or two cars.
I don't actually miss the performance of the v8 because as said above opportunities to use the performance were limited, I do miss the noise however but soon forget about that when I see how much I'm saving on fuel.I doubled my mpg /halved my pence per mile fuel cost switching from an RS6 to a 535d. Performance is c170bhp/tonne v 230bhp/tonne clearly different league but still plenty of fun
VF7 said:
I know that on PetrolHeads.com there is a lot more love for Diesels in the last few years, but I still can't stand them.
Yes, you will most likely find a few good argument for the devils juice but I still don't like Diesels. Even more so I hate Diesel!
I don't like the clatter, I don't like smell, I don't like how they pollute the city's and I don't like having only 3k rpms.
But I do hate how quick they seemingly are!
A short story:
I was driving my 10 years old Audi S4 with a big 4.2l V8. 340 bhp and 300 lb·ft has been a lot of power not quit long ago.
And yes I know the car is heavy at 1.8 tons and no sportscar and that everybody keeps saying they are slow (155mph and 0-60 in 5.6 sec).
But yesterday I realized that everybody seems to be right!!
Have have been getting on the Autobahn. A sharp corner before the acceleration lane meant one was going at ~ 30mph.
Once on the acceleration lane and stamped on the gas pedal and the automatic in sport mode took care of the rest.
Just before I accelerated hard I saw a black Golf 5 in the rear view mirror.
When turning into Lane 1 at 80 mph I realized the Golf is still the same distance from me than before!!! (ok maybe a little bit more behind but not much)
Only from there until ~ 95 mph I could gain a little more room.
Settled for a nice cruising speed at 80 mph and let the Golf overtake me. To my surprise it turned out to be a Golf 5 Variant 2.0 TDI! Only 140 bhp but 240 lb·ft!
I may have been chipped, but looking completely stock I doubt it...
I normally don't care too much for grand prix lights etc. but seeing good old petrol power from a lot of cubic inches being given a hard time by an old clattering, smelly family Diesel estate with a mere 140 horses does hurt my feelings somehow.
Have you encountered similar stories before?
Diesels are not that bad. I have one myself, it is totally stock. It is a 2017 BMW 320d (F30 generation, facelift/LCI), it gets 70mpg (from my tests), the 320i gets 43mpg (from my tests). Did I mention the 320d is half a second quicker to 60mph? Don’t even think about the 50-70 (80-120km/h) because the diesel wins there too and even if it had less power it would still win in the 50-70mph test. Here are the power outputs for the 2015-2019 models 320d: 190hp and 400nm - 320i: 184hp and 270nm, yes the 320d has 6 more horsepower but 6 horsepower doesn’t make a .5 second different in the 0-60mph test. Also the diesel pollutes less greenhouse gases: 106g/km vs 128g/km (320d vs 320i)Yes, you will most likely find a few good argument for the devils juice but I still don't like Diesels. Even more so I hate Diesel!
I don't like the clatter, I don't like smell, I don't like how they pollute the city's and I don't like having only 3k rpms.
But I do hate how quick they seemingly are!
A short story:
I was driving my 10 years old Audi S4 with a big 4.2l V8. 340 bhp and 300 lb·ft has been a lot of power not quit long ago.
And yes I know the car is heavy at 1.8 tons and no sportscar and that everybody keeps saying they are slow (155mph and 0-60 in 5.6 sec).
But yesterday I realized that everybody seems to be right!!
Have have been getting on the Autobahn. A sharp corner before the acceleration lane meant one was going at ~ 30mph.
Once on the acceleration lane and stamped on the gas pedal and the automatic in sport mode took care of the rest.
Just before I accelerated hard I saw a black Golf 5 in the rear view mirror.
When turning into Lane 1 at 80 mph I realized the Golf is still the same distance from me than before!!! (ok maybe a little bit more behind but not much)
Only from there until ~ 95 mph I could gain a little more room.
Settled for a nice cruising speed at 80 mph and let the Golf overtake me. To my surprise it turned out to be a Golf 5 Variant 2.0 TDI! Only 140 bhp but 240 lb·ft!
I may have been chipped, but looking completely stock I doubt it...
I normally don't care too much for grand prix lights etc. but seeing good old petrol power from a lot of cubic inches being given a hard time by an old clattering, smelly family Diesel estate with a mere 140 horses does hurt my feelings somehow.
Have you encountered similar stories before?
A diesel with a particulate filter and an EGR valve smells the same as a petrol with a particulate filter and an EGR valve.
Older diesels smell worse but modern diesels (including vans) smell much better and do not have that dirty image diesels used to have.
Although you have a right to an opinion, you have a very narrow outlook on diesels.
Edit: I forgot to add, my 320d has a limiter of 5600rpm 🙂
aidan_20 said:
Diesels are not that bad. I have one myself, it is totally stock. It is a 2017 BMW 320d (F30 generation, facelift/LCI), it gets 70mpg (from my tests), the 320i gets 43mpg (from my tests). Did I mention the 320d is half a second quicker to 60mph? Don’t even think about the 50-70 (80-120km/h) because the diesel wins there too and even if it had less power it would still win in the 50-70mph test. Here are the power outputs for the 2015-2019 models 320d: 190hp and 400nm - 320i: 184hp and 270nm, yes the 320d has 6 more horsepower but 6 horsepower doesn’t make a .5 second different in the 0-60mph test. Also the diesel pollutes less greenhouse gases: 106g/km vs 128g/km (320d vs 320i)
A diesel with a particulate filter and an EGR valve smells the same as a petrol with a particulate filter and an EGR valve.
Older diesels smell worse but modern diesels (including vans) smell much better and do not have that dirty image diesels used to have.
Although you have a right to an opinion, you have a very narrow outlook on diesels.
Edit: I forgot to add, my 320d has a limiter of 5600rpm ??
Diesels really are that bad! A diesel with a particulate filter and an EGR valve smells the same as a petrol with a particulate filter and an EGR valve.
Older diesels smell worse but modern diesels (including vans) smell much better and do not have that dirty image diesels used to have.
Although you have a right to an opinion, you have a very narrow outlook on diesels.
Edit: I forgot to add, my 320d has a limiter of 5600rpm ??
For business use reasons I had a couple and my 2007 twin-turbo 123d with 201bhp had a red-line at 5,000rpm, although it just got breathless at 4,500 rpm.
Then I discovered petrol straight 6s!
My E90 330i makes peak power at 6,600 rpm.
![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/6B1WQDe8.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/6B1WQDe8" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/6B1WQDe8.jpg)
My Z4M makes peak power at 7,900 rpm!
Mr Tidy said:
Diesels really are that bad!
For business use reasons I had a couple and my 2007 twin-turbo 123d with 201bhp had a red-line at 5,000rpm, although it just got breathless at 4,500 rpm.
Then I discovered petrol straight 6s!
My E90 330i makes peak power at 6,600 rpm.
My Z4M makes peak power at 7,900 rpm!
Your argument appears to be that these engines are better because they rev higher. A Yamaha R6 makes it's peak power at about 15000 rpm so are we saying BMW petrol car engines are sFor business use reasons I had a couple and my 2007 twin-turbo 123d with 201bhp had a red-line at 5,000rpm, although it just got breathless at 4,500 rpm.
Then I discovered petrol straight 6s!
My E90 330i makes peak power at 6,600 rpm.
My Z4M makes peak power at 7,900 rpm!
t because they're so low revving? Gearboxes solve any issue of engine RPM redline, the issue surely should be about how much of the potential rev range an engine makes a decent amount of power over.There are cases for and against diesels, not least the government doing its best to encourage people to buy diesels not so very long a go.
My fun car is petrol, but the everyday driver is a diesel, and I know of no other car type that matches the things that `it' can do.
It can regularly do up to 1000 miles between fill ups.
At 70 mph, the engine is only revving a little over idling speed in top gear, so it is not only quiet, but also longer lasting than a thrashing petrol engine for the same road speed.
Diesel fuel also has some lubricant qualities, and this combined with the fact that it has only turned over a fraction of the number of times a petrol engine would have to, to cover the same distance, means that a well maintained diesel can last a lot longer than an equivalent petrol engine.
The down sides are that it revs so slowly, it can take a long time to warm up in winter, and no one ever bought a diesel if they were looking for scintillating performance.
As for the smell comments, I really dont know what those who complain about this are doing. Do they rub themselves up and down the diesel pump at a fuel station so that they can complain about the smell? Do they pour diesel on their hands, when filling up? After nearly twenty years of using a diesel as the everyday driver I can count the number of times I have used gloves when filling up on the fingers of one hand, and I have never managed to get diesel on my hands.
I suspect having a diesel, is only really a problem for those, who for whatever reason, can only have one car?
My fun car is petrol, but the everyday driver is a diesel, and I know of no other car type that matches the things that `it' can do.
It can regularly do up to 1000 miles between fill ups.
At 70 mph, the engine is only revving a little over idling speed in top gear, so it is not only quiet, but also longer lasting than a thrashing petrol engine for the same road speed.
Diesel fuel also has some lubricant qualities, and this combined with the fact that it has only turned over a fraction of the number of times a petrol engine would have to, to cover the same distance, means that a well maintained diesel can last a lot longer than an equivalent petrol engine.
The down sides are that it revs so slowly, it can take a long time to warm up in winter, and no one ever bought a diesel if they were looking for scintillating performance.
As for the smell comments, I really dont know what those who complain about this are doing. Do they rub themselves up and down the diesel pump at a fuel station so that they can complain about the smell? Do they pour diesel on their hands, when filling up? After nearly twenty years of using a diesel as the everyday driver I can count the number of times I have used gloves when filling up on the fingers of one hand, and I have never managed to get diesel on my hands.
I suspect having a diesel, is only really a problem for those, who for whatever reason, can only have one car?
RizzoTheRat said:
Your argument appears to be that these engines are better because they rev higher. A Yamaha R6 makes it's peak power at about 15000 rpm so are we saying BMW petrol car engines are st because they're so low revving? Gearboxes solve any issue of engine RPM redline, the issue surely should be about how much of the potential rev range an engine makes a decent amount of power over.
This thread is about cars so the rev-limit of an R6 isn't really relevant - although Peter Hickman's BMW got round the IOM quicker than any high-revving Yamaha! t because they're so low revving? Gearboxes solve any issue of engine RPM redline, the issue surely should be about how much of the potential rev range an engine makes a decent amount of power over.Mr Tidy said:
This thread is about cars so the rev-limit of an R6 isn't really relevant - although Peter Hickman's BMW got round the IOM quicker than any high-revving Yamaha!
But it didn't rev to 15k though & he was riding a Yamaha in the 600 Supersport races!Also my OH's D3 would comfortably walk away from your Z4M down an A road making a lovely sound as it done so all done with a more composed ride too.
But that's not comparing apples with apples as they're from different era's, the Z4's suspension has always been compromised & you really have to wring it's neck.
I'd take a 370Z Nismo everyday of the week & that's the point people like different things just because you like straight 6's that doesn't make a straight 6 diesel a bad option it just means it doesn't work for you.
There's no right or wrong answer there's just different people liking different things.
ORD said:
MPG addicts still pretending diesels are fun and good for the environment. All is well with the world.
Strangely, the Nazis used petrol engines, and not diesels to gas people in the early years of WW2, and here was many of us being made to believe that petrol engines only ever emit fairy dust!Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff