Why do these dirty Diesels have to be so damn fast??

[philmots]

Max_Torque said:

philmots said:

I had a 335d, it was a disappointment TBH, it never felt or was any faster than any other 286hp car.

However, if you forget, and then look at the speedo, you can find rather illegally large numbers showing when you didn't really expect them!

This is true, but no bigger numbers than a petrol car with similar power.

Before I had a 9-3 V6 300hp and 390lbft, it was a lot faster at any speed at any revs, it just did 24mpg vs 32 in the 335.

[anonymous-user]

Leins said:

The M5 was very impressive from 100-130 though, with performance the diesel just couldn't live with IME. Even the S54 in my old CSL didn't seem much stronger at this point

A lot of that is due to the performance cues you get as a driver from a high reving, low BMEP engine, vs a low reving high BMEP one. Above 100mph to get strong performance you going to be in a (relatively)low gear, so the engine will be making a lot of high frequency noise and vibration. In the diesel, chances are the crankshaft will be spinning half as fast, meaning it sounds slower!

When you start investigating these factors, it's astonishing how little absolute performance we actually get from direct cues (ie acceleration forces) and how much comes from secondary and tertiary perception factors, such as noise, vibration, frequency etc. With the push to powertrain electrification, this is area is hot topic at the OEMs right now!

[PhillipM]

Which is why everyone was so pissed about the noise of the new F1 engines

The body is a terrible dyno, it lets itself be fooled by everything apart from the actual performance...it prefers theater.

[anonymous-user]

philmots said:

Max_Torque said:

philmots said:

I had a 335d, it was a disappointment TBH, it never felt or was any faster than any other 286hp car.

However, if you forget, and then look at the speedo, you can find rather illegally large numbers showing when you didn't really expect them!

This is true, but no bigger numbers than a petrol car with similar power.

Before I had a 9-3 V6 300hp and 390lbft, it was a lot faster at any speed at any revs, it just did 24mpg vs 32 in the 335.

no of course not as "you canne break the laws of physics laddy" or something similar.


What is interesting though, as the 35d/E34 M5 compare shows, is that two cars with very similar on paper performance (190bhp/t vs 174bhp/t) feel very different, due to the specific torque differences (230Nm/t vs 350Nm/t)

[shielsy]

Max_Torque said:

shielsy said:

Soov535 said:

I have the F10 535D and it's standard.

329bhp, loads of torque. Same performance as the old six cylinder M5 and 45mpg.

Incredible.

With a remap and a zorst they are insane.

Not really incredible is it.

New twin turbo 3.0 diesel 5 series goes just as fast as 1989 3.6 litre N/A petrol 5 series. Shocker.

except of course that's not actually true. A current 35d has a massively wider spread of power across the rev range, so whilst an old N/A M5 might just keep up if you rev'd it right too and kept it continuously at, peak power, in reality the modern Derv will just stroll away without breaking sweat or using more than a couple of it's 8 gears........

Ye olde M5 is the best part of 30 years old man! I personally would be pretty pissed off if my 50 grands worth of Bavaria's 2016 finest couldn't smoke it, diesel or not.

Compare an iPhone to computers in the late 80s..... So why is a 30 year old sports saloon being used as a baseline for a modern flagship diesel? If eggs is eggs then put the 535d up against an F10 M5.

[ZX10R NIN]

Smokey32 said:

xjay1337 said:

14.0 (crap at launching) at 103.something.

LOL course you did sweetie.

I was at Pod this year when I saw a TDI VW Lupo hit a low 11 second time with a 120+mph terminal speed on a few occasions throughout the day.

Also up until around 80mph my CLK320cdi will keep my CLK63 AMG honest after which the 63 walks away but the diesels torque makes it a formidable opponent up until then.

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Thursday 29th September 23:58

[Leins]

Max_Torque said:

Leins said:

The M5 was very impressive from 100-130 though, with performance the diesel just couldn't live with IME. Even the S54 in my old CSL didn't seem much stronger at this point

A lot of that is due to the performance cues you get as a driver from a high reving, low BMEP engine, vs a low reving high BMEP one. Above 100mph to get strong performance you going to be in a (relatively)low gear, so the engine will be making a lot of high frequency noise and vibration. In the diesel, chances are the crankshaft will be spinning half as fast, meaning it sounds slower!

When you start investigating these factors, it's astonishing how little absolute performance we actually get from direct cues (ie acceleration forces) and how much comes from secondary and tertiary perception factors, such as noise, vibration, frequency etc. With the push to powertrain electrification, this is area is hot topic at the OEMs right now!

Actually, overall there really wasn't a huge amount in it between the two cars, but (assuming the clocks were accurate) I still found the M5 to be marginally the quicker car. We're talking fractions here though, and admittedly I never owned both simultaneously

[shielsy]

ZX10R NIN said:

Smokey32 said:

xjay1337 said:

14.0 (crap at launching) at 103.something.

LOL course you did sweetie.

I was at Pod this year when I saw a TDI VW Lupo hit a low 11 second time with a 120+mph terminal speed

This thread has truely gone to st

Production cars in the low 11s:

- McLaren MP4-12C
- Ferrari FF
- Ferrari 458
- Lexus LFA
- Lamborghini Murcielago
- Nissan GTR
- VW TDi Lupo

[thebraketester]

It's a seat arosa if it's the one I presume it is

[ZX10R NIN]

shielsy said:

This thread has truely gone to st

Production cars in the low 11s:

- McLaren MP4-12C
- Ferrari FF
- Ferrari 458
- Lexus LFA
- Lamborghini Murcielago
- Nissan GTR
- VW TDi Lupo

Obviously the Lupo had been modified as have my CLK's & the petrol one can hit high 10's on a good day, but my point was that Smokey was trying to imply that a Xjay saying he hit 14's with his diesel Scirocco was telling porkies, which is daft when there are production diesels pulling high 12/low 13 second 1/4 mile times.

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Friday 30th September 00:25

[rayyan171]

Steve93 said:

DoubleD said:

Steve93 said:

I don't think I've had any trouble shaking any diesel car (including remapped ones) only 280ish bhp and 279ftlb from my turbo petrol as well...soon to be a tad more with a couple of bolt on bits

You will have to hope you never meet a 3.0 BMW then.

Already have


Even drove the same car (E90 330D remapped auto if you want the specifics) so can confirm it was trying.

I challenge you with 285hp and 580nm/427 ft lb from a '3.0 BMW diesel)

[Sparkzz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lctN1IGbpf8


mm

[anonymous-user]

ZX10R NIN said:

Obviously the Lupo had been modified as have my CLK's & the petrol one can hit high 10's on a good day, but my point was that Smokey was trying to imply that a Xjay saying he hit 14's with his diesel Scirocco was telling porkies, which is daft when there are production diesels pulling high 12/low 13 second 1/4 mile times.

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 30th September 00:25

It's fascinating people still quote 1/4 mile times. It's about the least important stat as far as I'm concerned.

[Pixelpeep7r]

fossilfuelled said:

I reckon he rebadged something a bit tasty.

I was on the autobahn in a 997 Turbo recently, and a golf something or other kept up with me to 180 mph. Yes. 180 mph GOLF....WTF!? He didn't even drop back very much as I pressed the loud pedal. He pretty much kept up! Who knew?

Stage 1 map, just software, on the 7R will see 179mph - HPA twin turbo'd Mk5 R32's were lethal too..

[xjay1337]

Smokey32 said:

xjay1337 said:

14.0 (crap at launching) at 103.something.

LOL course you did sweetie.

I dont have the 103 ticket but I have this one which was at 102.xx...


https://flic.kr/p/MyC5DC

you must have gotten me confused with your boyfriend cos I aint your sweetie.

[xjay1337]

shielsy said:

This thread has truely gone to st

Production cars in the low 11s:

- McLaren MP4-12C
- Ferrari FF
- Ferrari 458
- Lexus LFA
- Lamborghini Murcielago
- Nissan GTR
- VW TDi Lupo

10s as it turns out. I have a darkside turbo kit on my car with an upgrade fuel pump and a tune from my tuner bobby.

[ZX10R NIN]

yonex said:

It's fascinating people still quote 1/4 mile times. It's about the least important stat as far as I'm concerned.

I think it's a better gauge than 0-60mph, but in the context of this conversation 30-80mph would be more relevant as the OP was caught out by a tuned diesel, I suspect if he'd stayed on it the Golf would have been left behind as the benefits of the initial torque diminished.

As I said in my earlier post up until 80mph my diesel & n/a petrol are very close then my petrol will be gone, when doing 3rd gear roll ons the diesel will pull an initial lead with the petrol coming back later, against a turbo petrol with the same 3rd gear scenario my diesel will get a wing out front before being dispatched.

[Captainawesome]

Howard- said:

If your 340BHP V8 can't walk away from a 140bhp 4 cylinder diesel then I'd suggest it's broken. If it was a 330D or something then it's a fairer fight, but unless that Golf has had a fortune spent on tuning it, it won't be anywhere near as fast as your S4. They aren't quick cars. Even the 180 bhp Golf GTD has a 0-60 time of about 8 seconds - considerably slower than the S4.

Edited by Howard- on Thursday 29th September 14:25

^^^This. The 4.2s are notorious for coking up and dropping bhp. I have the same engine (S5) and on it's first power run on the MRC dynoe it only made 325bhp and that was with a map (unknown by who as the car came with it). MRC have fettled a fair bit and now she is running 374bhp. However, even befor the work it was making mincemeat of GTDs. GTD drivers seem to be by far the worst 'watch how fast my diesel is' heroes and I've never had trouble seeing one off.

If you can't beat even a remapped GTD then something is wrong with your car.

[ChilliWhizz]

I think we should round up all these diseasel driving monkeys and make them live in a high security compound on the isle of wight. Or the Isle of Man. No, wait, make that Iceland. Yep Iceland, it's really cold there

I mean, if this was called PetrolHeads not PistonHeads we wouldn't even let them post. Well we wouldn't...would we?

Their very presence boils my pi**

Where are the mods when you need one huh?

Quarter mile times for a diesel, for God's sake, what the feck is the world coming to.....

[ZX10R NIN]

did you get passed by a GTD