Is a 911 the only choice here?
Discussion
V8RX7 said:
I have - a proper air cooled one cost £15k at the time probably "worth" £50k now, I can't remember if it's in my "garage" or not but I agree with Rob's comments - except I'd go further
I wanted one for years, read all the reviews etc and was bitterly disappointed, "flat six howl" - my arse - it sounded like a beetle.
I enjoy driving a car which to me means balancing it on the edge of grip, cornering using the throttle to adjust the angle (not drifting before the usual morons comment) I kept the 911 for a month. I was equally disappointed with a Merc Cosworth 2.3 - my 300bhp 944T was much better than both but still a GT car.
The best car - in my opinion is the most communicative and controllable - ie a Caterham / Westfield.
If you simply want to go fast, buy a GTR - if Porsche had made it I suspect most 911 owners would.
The 911 is not the fastest, nor the most fun however if you need an iconic 2+2 it's the default choice - personally I'm far happier in my (modified) RX7
Yes, it's much more difficult to adjust the angle of a 911 by throttle alone. One needs to use the rearward weight bias and trail brake. The problem with the 2.3-16 might have been down to knackered self levelling....common problem on them. They're very adjustable on the throttle if set up correctly.I wanted one for years, read all the reviews etc and was bitterly disappointed, "flat six howl" - my arse - it sounded like a beetle.
I enjoy driving a car which to me means balancing it on the edge of grip, cornering using the throttle to adjust the angle (not drifting before the usual morons comment) I kept the 911 for a month. I was equally disappointed with a Merc Cosworth 2.3 - my 300bhp 944T was much better than both but still a GT car.
The best car - in my opinion is the most communicative and controllable - ie a Caterham / Westfield.
If you simply want to go fast, buy a GTR - if Porsche had made it I suspect most 911 owners would.
The 911 is not the fastest, nor the most fun however if you need an iconic 2+2 it's the default choice - personally I'm far happier in my (modified) RX7
And naturally, it's hard to beat a Caterfield, but no room for a baby seat in the back
I don't think "numb" is really much of a criticism when applied to a modern 911 anyway; it's become a GT car, isolating its occupants from what's going on around them is part of its job. One man's "feel" is another man's "unpleasant vibration". It's still better than most of its GT competition at telling the driver what's going on; expecting it to be as communicative as an Evora or indeed a Cayman isn't really fair.
interstellar said:
Jag XKR
Would be where my money would be heading, even though it's more of a 'GT'. Budget gets you a 3-year old car with plenty of trimmings from a dealer.The 5.0 is quicker than the N/A 911, the interior is a nicer place to be, the noise from the back end is in a different league, and (IMHO) the image is much better.
From a practical perspective, you get a bigger boot (with a 'hatchback') and a similar amount of space in the back.
ETA: However, the 997 you've bought (that will teach me to read to the end) is absolutely stunning in that colour. Good choice.
Edited by C70R on Friday 14th October 16:21
rubystone said:
zebra said:
I've driven loads of Porsches but never owned one. Would my opinion be valid?
Depends if he wants to know what the car is like to live with. I got the impression that's what he wanted. In which case, your opinion wouldn't be valid, no.I got the impression that the OP wanted information from many different angles, just a general fact finding mission for cars in this sector that weren't a 911 (Evora, Maserati GT etc). Unless he explicitly said "I don't care what the cars drive like, I just want to know the practicalities, a la "What Car" magazine", I will assume, given this is Pistonheads, that he's interested in what the cars in question drive like!!
I didn't try to give information on what any of the potential choices are like to live with, because I haven't owned any of these cars we're talking about. I have only commented from angles that I have authority to comment from, i.e. things such as driving position, what the cars drive like, what Porsche racers that I know well think etc. You don't need to own a car to comment on those things - how do you think car journalists operate from day to day?
A few hours with the car, conversations with experienced owners and racers etc - that's how Evo reviews are born and we're just doing the same thing here at an amateur level with less eloquence.As others have said, modern Porsches, even the Boxster and Cayman, have become very GT like and aloof in many respects (steering feel and throttle response are my two main bug-bears). Sure, certain aspects remain connected and sports car like (brake pedal progression, for example, is the best servo assisted setup I've ever tried; handling also is extremely good), but many aspects have drawn right back from that connected feeling that a true driver's car should possess. It's not just my crazy opinion that the Evora gives these feelings, although it lacks in other areas, it's a commonly held view (read the posts above, or any car magazine..). Denying this viewpoint so aggressively makes you seem rather like a 'fan boy', especially when talking to someone like me who actually loves Porsches, but just has a few criticisms of them. I can't think of a car I've owned actually that I couldn't criticise, even my favourite ones - nothing is perfect, so you should stop pretending the 911 is.
As I opened the thread by saying:
RobM77 said:
The 997 is certainly the default choice for those in your shoes
...and it's a very good choice, particularly in the spec the OP has chosen. I should however be allowed to criticise cars and discuss alternatives, that's what discussion is based upon is it not? I think it's what the OP wanted. Note that I urged him to drive an Evora, not buy one! It's just worth a drive - that's what diverted me from my Porsche buying mission many years ago and I've not looked back.RobM77 said:
...and it's a very good choice, particularly in the spec the OP has chosen. I should however be allowed to criticise cars and discuss alternatives, that's what discussion is based upon is it not? I think it's what the OP wanted. Note that I urged him to drive an Evora, not buy one! It's just worth a drive - that's what diverted me from my Porsche buying mission many years ago and I've not looked back.
RobM77 said:
I should however be allowed to criticise cars and discuss alternatives, that's what discussion is based upon is it not? I think it's what the OP wanted.
+1. It would have been boring if everyone suggested a 911, even if that's what I was leaning towards and what I ended up with!I'm sure I'll have a Lotus in my garage sometime in the future, although the missus did disapprove somewhat of going from a Porsche to a "toy car"
Shaoxter said:
+1. It would have been boring if everyone suggested a 911, even if that's what I was leaning towards and what I ended up with!
I'm sure I'll have a Lotus in my garage sometime in the future, although the missus did disapprove somewhat of going from a Porsche to a "toy car"
I think I got pretty much the same reaction for considering the Evora as an alternative to the 911..I'm sure I'll have a Lotus in my garage sometime in the future, although the missus did disapprove somewhat of going from a Porsche to a "toy car"
The end result looks a good choice..stunning colour as well!!
Op it is definitely each to their own. If you have driven, and love, the 997 then it is completely perfect for you.
I wish I liked them as they are a sensible option, but for me there is no duller way to part with 40k.
With your criteria I would buy a GT-R every day of the week. Much more useable seats than the 997 and vastly more exciting imo.
I wish I liked them as they are a sensible option, but for me there is no duller way to part with 40k.
With your criteria I would buy a GT-R every day of the week. Much more useable seats than the 997 and vastly more exciting imo.
rubystone said:
BigLion said:
You do realise that NCAP is a rating out of 5 don't you? 
You do realise that some cars have better safety than others don't you?
You do realise not every car has a NCAP rating don't you ?
You do realise that adding rolling eyes and a patronising tone to your post doesn't make your argument valid ?
You're suggesting an Evora is going to shatter into pieces of fibreglass. That shows me you're incredibly naive. Glad you googled NCAP though You do realise that some cars have better safety than others don't you?
You do realise not every car has a NCAP rating don't you ?
You do realise that adding rolling eyes and a patronising tone to your post doesn't make your argument valid ?
Well done dude, we'll let you wear the special hat.
zebra said:
rubystone said:
zebra said:
I've driven loads of Porsches but never owned one. Would my opinion be valid?
Depends if he wants to know what the car is like to live with. I got the impression that's what he wanted. In which case, your opinion wouldn't be valid, no.BigLion said:
Damn I thought the clown craze was over, but we found one here - so you're the only person in the world who thinks an evora would perform as well in an accident as a new range rover, because both meet minimal standards.
Well done dude, we'll let you wear the special hat.
Didn't you suggest it would explode into fibreglass fragments? That's such a naive statement - shows you know little about the construction of cars. What's with the use of 'dude'. Are you an American? Or Lewis Hamilton? Well done dude, we'll let you wear the special hat.
rubystone said:
BigLion said:
Damn I thought the clown craze was over, but we found one here - so you're the only person in the world who thinks an evora would perform as well in an accident as a new range rover, because both meet minimal standards.
Well done dude, we'll let you wear the special hat.
Didn't you suggest it would explode into fibreglass fragments? That's such a naive statement - shows you know little about the construction of cars. What's with the use of 'dude'. Are you an American? Or Lewis Hamilton? Well done dude, we'll let you wear the special hat.
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