Boat choice / criteria
Discussion
Knowledgable folks of PH. In the next year or so, I will have some disposable cash and intend to buy another stink pot with a little bit of it.
It will be smaller than my previous tub (kids gone), looking at 24-30 feet as it will be just me and the missus pottering about the south coast from Pompey. Cruising ground mostly Solent / Poole at weekends but the odd stretch longer for a week or so maybe once / twice a year. No channel crossings, purely south coastal.
Budget will be £25-30k. I know that short LWL and vee type will probably make it a bit crashy unless speed is matched to chop in the Solent, but we will put up with a reduced speed when weather does not permit pressing on.
Not really into boat share, intend to moor it outside where we live and use it lots. Something very late 90's / early 2000ish I guess for that money. Don't really want to go older 80s style Fairline / Sealine boats as good and seaworthy as they probably are compared to the US lake boats which seem to be catching my eye.
So my main criteria (there are a lot more irrelevant niceties):
I can only find two manufacturers who produce a sportscruiser in my price range, on a single engine and at a size and associate cost I want to put into Port Solent and critically, with a dual helm seat. The Doral Monticello / 250SE, or the Four Winns 268 Vista. Sealine s25 may just creep into budget.
I am thinking that surely there must be others? Any suggestions from your experience to check out would be gratefully received.
It will be smaller than my previous tub (kids gone), looking at 24-30 feet as it will be just me and the missus pottering about the south coast from Pompey. Cruising ground mostly Solent / Poole at weekends but the odd stretch longer for a week or so maybe once / twice a year. No channel crossings, purely south coastal.
Budget will be £25-30k. I know that short LWL and vee type will probably make it a bit crashy unless speed is matched to chop in the Solent, but we will put up with a reduced speed when weather does not permit pressing on.
Not really into boat share, intend to moor it outside where we live and use it lots. Something very late 90's / early 2000ish I guess for that money. Don't really want to go older 80s style Fairline / Sealine boats as good and seaworthy as they probably are compared to the US lake boats which seem to be catching my eye.
So my main criteria (there are a lot more irrelevant niceties):
- Sport / express cruiser style no walkarounds or sports fishers
- Single I/O, 250+ HP, not too fussed about fuel type but would prefer EFI if petrol
- Sweet spot cruising speed in the mid-high 20mph area
- 100mile plus range
- Comfy weekender and the odd longer trip - I.e., not a cuddy, full headroom main cabin with mini galley, shower etc.
I can only find two manufacturers who produce a sportscruiser in my price range, on a single engine and at a size and associate cost I want to put into Port Solent and critically, with a dual helm seat. The Doral Monticello / 250SE, or the Four Winns 268 Vista. Sealine s25 may just creep into budget.
I am thinking that surely there must be others? Any suggestions from your experience to check out would be gratefully received.
Edited by SeeFive on Friday 30th September 01:19
The Ors said:
Could you not buy something with a single helm seat and modify it/have it modified?
Might make your search simpler...
Hadn't really thought that way, but in most cases, I reckon you would be blocking thoroughfares and things like cabin doors etc.Might make your search simpler...
Actually, after a bit of a trawl of the classifieds, I have found a few other makes but some slightly at the fat end of the budget. For example, Crownline and Glastron also seem to have some in the size I am hoping to buy.
A Fairey Huntsman. Ah yes, I forgot to mention one of my criteria - hull and topsides not made of wood
Very nice boats, there is a well maintained and nice sounding example in this marina. But I think I am gonna struggle to find one that is not going to chew up all my life maintaining it given the years they were built and materials used. Lovely to see and hear running but unlike your good self, I am not brave enough to own one.
Coming closer to a decision on the boat make and model now after days trawling the Internet and lots of spreadsheets showing ongoing doom.
A Four Winns 268, killing polar bears via a petrol chewing a 280hp 5.7 Volvo Penta injection with duo prop seems to tick all the boxes for us. Good cockpit for a couple at leisure, cabin ok and they seem to have a reasonable reputation. Just need to order some decent weather off Puggit now.
The Doral Monticello also looked good with that clever extending cockpit seating design, but they are out of business now, so a bit worrying on a boat with quite a few years under its belt and fittings getting brittle. I checked the Internet for some likely parts needs, and it ain't pretty.
25-30k funds a 10-15 year old 268 purchase and my spreadsheet shows annual running costs of around £12-13k (expensive marina mooring, lots of fuel, insurance, servicing and a couple of haulouts annually). Major explosions are extra, kind of expected but will be treated as a significant variable cost as they cannot really be planned for with any accuracy. Most of the stuff listed today seems to have had recent work - risers, manifolds, leg work, cosmetics like covers etc.
Clearly buying the boat is still the same very small part of the delights of boat ownership TCO since I last owned one. Did some man maths on fuel costs, and investment in a couple of jerry cans can save many hundreds of pounds a year against marina fuel prices - about a £7 per 20 litres sized saving so the faffing may be worth it over the year - upwards of a grand savings is easily possible against a fair percentage of the anticipated fuel bill. Shame I don't still have a company fuel card... and not need to record mileage when purchasing fuel... not that I did such a thing when I last owned a boat of course
The running costs are madness, but we will still be getting one - probably sooner rather than later as I fancy a winter getting it into the condition I want before the season starts. The bigger plan for that could get scuppered somewhat as the Mrs is looking forward to using it to go shopping at Gunwharf this winter! Brrrrrr, she really hasn't done this boaty thing before has she?
A Four Winns 268, killing polar bears via a petrol chewing a 280hp 5.7 Volvo Penta injection with duo prop seems to tick all the boxes for us. Good cockpit for a couple at leisure, cabin ok and they seem to have a reasonable reputation. Just need to order some decent weather off Puggit now.
The Doral Monticello also looked good with that clever extending cockpit seating design, but they are out of business now, so a bit worrying on a boat with quite a few years under its belt and fittings getting brittle. I checked the Internet for some likely parts needs, and it ain't pretty.
25-30k funds a 10-15 year old 268 purchase and my spreadsheet shows annual running costs of around £12-13k (expensive marina mooring, lots of fuel, insurance, servicing and a couple of haulouts annually). Major explosions are extra, kind of expected but will be treated as a significant variable cost as they cannot really be planned for with any accuracy. Most of the stuff listed today seems to have had recent work - risers, manifolds, leg work, cosmetics like covers etc.
Clearly buying the boat is still the same very small part of the delights of boat ownership TCO since I last owned one. Did some man maths on fuel costs, and investment in a couple of jerry cans can save many hundreds of pounds a year against marina fuel prices - about a £7 per 20 litres sized saving so the faffing may be worth it over the year - upwards of a grand savings is easily possible against a fair percentage of the anticipated fuel bill. Shame I don't still have a company fuel card... and not need to record mileage when purchasing fuel... not that I did such a thing when I last owned a boat of course
The running costs are madness, but we will still be getting one - probably sooner rather than later as I fancy a winter getting it into the condition I want before the season starts. The bigger plan for that could get scuppered somewhat as the Mrs is looking forward to using it to go shopping at Gunwharf this winter! Brrrrrr, she really hasn't done this boaty thing before has she?
Rangeroverover said:
Depending on where you intend to park it/availability that engine is fine with an lpg conversion; depends how you feel about having gas on board.....multiple blowers/sniffers needed as its heavier than air
That was an option I briefly looked at. The boat will be at Port Solent, Portsmouth. As far as I can make out reading the Internet, LPG availability is not good even around the Solent here but the articles are quite old. Not a fan of gas on a boat, so will probably stick with the odd Jerry can slung in the tank when the marina manager is not looking at me
. How often I will do that is anyone's guess (£130 quid is a good saving on a tank, but that is a big tank to fill with 20 litre cans!) but it all helps when the predicted annual fuel bill is going to be north of £5k. The difference between marina fuel at cost as a berth holder and local Tesco fuel prices is around 30%.
Thanks for the suggestion though. I will do another trawl on LPG availability when I have a right arm like a tennis player from lugging cans around
Take it you've seen this one? Looks to be in outstanding condition for a 15 yr old boat (not that I've seen it - just from the pics). These things look great value at £25k. I guess the running costs of a 5.7 litre petrol depress values somewhat...
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2001/Four-Winns-26...
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2001/Four-Winns-26...
Junior Bianno said:
Take it you've seen this one? Looks to be in outstanding condition for a 15 yr old boat (not that I've seen it - just from the pics). These things look great value at £25k. I guess the running costs of a 5.7 litre petrol depress values somewhat...
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2001/Four-Winns-26...
This is the point where I have to say I did a drive by on Sunday and it is a wreck to stop getting gazumped http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2001/Four-Winns-26...
. Actually the boat looks good from 25 metres, and is a candidateWRT to the 5.7, IMO a single engine boat of that size and hull design needs all of that to get and keep on the plane without pushing it too hard. They really chew fuel at revs beyond the cruising sweet spot.
My car has a 5.7 and the difference between a road 26mpg and a track 4mpg would be reflected in a boat even moreso. A 3000 rpm 12gph would very quickly become 24 gph at slightly higher revs. I get your point on fuel though, a boat with a big block 7.4 or 8.2 would concern me and seems to hit values in the way you suggest.
Edited by SeeFive on Thursday 6th October 08:33
Huntsman said:
Assume you're thinking 10 gallons an hour at cruising speed, £5/gallon, 100hrs year?
Consumption is estimated at a bit worse than that on that engine in 28feet of plastic with a not necessarily spotless, antifouled hull. Rats, I just realised when typing this that I have probably used the US gallon size consumption statistics, so you could be closer than I am... Fuel prices are also suggested to be higher than £5 a gallon - closer to £6.50 at the moment (£1.45 litre)Rough usage plan was 45 trips of mixed duration, three main types -
1) 24 X evening harbour 2 hour plods, no cruise speed
2) 15 X 1.5 hour cruise speed running time (plus a couple of hours plodding / home harbour time)
3) 6 X 4 hour cruise speed running time (plus plod / harbour)
GPH is a lot lower at harbour plod speeds than Solent cruise speed, but I have to add it in at a different gph as Port Solent is quite a way from the Solent plus we will plod a bit at the destination most times.
Hardly scientific but a start to get a feel for likely costs.
We've been thinking about getting a stinkpot as my wife is somewhat less than enamoured with a yacht. All those sail and rope things make her nervous. I made the silly mistake of taking her on a friend's gin palace and that was that...
The fuel cost horrifies me even when you're just pootling about and I am not a great fan of having engines roaring away all the time after a life time of sailing.
If she does manage to crank open the bank account, then I'm going to give this mob a call. I haven't seen it working, but I do like the idea of a silent electric drive for just going short distances at low speed but with the option of the main dives for when you want to roar around or cruise. http://hushcraft.com
Has anyone tried this sort of thing yet?
The fuel cost horrifies me even when you're just pootling about and I am not a great fan of having engines roaring away all the time after a life time of sailing.
If she does manage to crank open the bank account, then I'm going to give this mob a call. I haven't seen it working, but I do like the idea of a silent electric drive for just going short distances at low speed but with the option of the main dives for when you want to roar around or cruise. http://hushcraft.com
Has anyone tried this sort of thing yet?
SeeFive said:
WRT to the 5.7, IMO a single engine boat of that size and hull design needs all of that to get and keep on the plane without pushing it too hard. They really chew fuel at revs beyond the cruising sweet spot.
I had a Mastercraft X Star with a 5.7 litre V8 - fuel consumption was murder, but in general you don't use it like a car. There lot of sitting around! The trade off with petrol is lower purchase price so it can often balance out.SeeFive said:
Consumption is estimated at a bit worse than that on that engine in 28feet of plastic with a not necessarily spotless, antifouled hull. Rats, I just realised when typing this that I have probably used the US gallon size consumption statistics, so you could be closer than I am... Fuel prices are also suggested to be higher than £5 a gallon - closer to £6.50 at the moment (£1.45 litre)
Rough usage plan was 45 trips of mixed duration, three main types -
1) 24 X evening harbour 2 hour plods, no cruise speed
2) 15 X 1.5 hour cruise speed running time (plus a couple of hours plodding / home harbour time)
3) 6 X 4 hour cruise speed running time (plus plod / harbour)
GPH is a lot lower at harbour plod speeds than Solent cruise speed, but I have to add it in at a different gph as Port Solent is quite a way from the Solent plus we will plod a bit at the destination most times.
Hardly scientific but a start to get a feel for likely costs.
I would ignore the hours/fuel burn pootling round the harbour, its tiny at those speeds.Rough usage plan was 45 trips of mixed duration, three main types -
1) 24 X evening harbour 2 hour plods, no cruise speed
2) 15 X 1.5 hour cruise speed running time (plus a couple of hours plodding / home harbour time)
3) 6 X 4 hour cruise speed running time (plus plod / harbour)
GPH is a lot lower at harbour plod speeds than Solent cruise speed, but I have to add it in at a different gph as Port Solent is quite a way from the Solent plus we will plod a bit at the destination most times.
Hardly scientific but a start to get a feel for likely costs.
Work on the basis of the planing hours only.
Huntsman said:
I would ignore the hours/fuel burn pootling round the harbour, its tiny at those speeds.
Work on the basis of the planing hours only.
I get what you say, but I really am trying not to under estimate when presenting figures to the Admiral indoors, so it all counts for me Work on the basis of the planing hours only.
The reason is that I may just go and do it before the money arrives if the right boat crops up at the right price, meaning that I need to afford it out of my current spare cash.
That engine uses 4.5 gallons an hour at low displacement speeds, so for a couple of hours per trip still needs counting when you are talking about doing it 45 times a year - X at least two gallons a time = £585 plus, which is not a lot but a reasonable amount to go in to the annual cost spreadsheet. I count insurance as a running cost, and this is potentially more so it is a valid cost IMO.
SeeFive said:
I get what you say, but I really am trying not to under estimate when presenting figures to the Admiral indoors, so it all counts for me
The reason is that I may just go and do it before the money arrives if the right boat crops up at the right price, meaning that I need to afford it out of my current spare cash.
That engine uses 4.5 gallons an hour at low displacement speeds, so for a couple of hours per trip still needs counting when you are talking about doing it 45 times a year - X at least two gallons a time = £585 plus, which is not a lot but a reasonable amount to go in to the annual cost spreadsheet. I count insurance as a running cost, and this is potentially more so it is a valid cost IMO.
Sensible approach. I would be surprised if genuinely at displacement speed you burn that much, but plan it that way and you might get a nice surprise!The reason is that I may just go and do it before the money arrives if the right boat crops up at the right price, meaning that I need to afford it out of my current spare cash.
That engine uses 4.5 gallons an hour at low displacement speeds, so for a couple of hours per trip still needs counting when you are talking about doing it 45 times a year - X at least two gallons a time = £585 plus, which is not a lot but a reasonable amount to go in to the annual cost spreadsheet. I count insurance as a running cost, and this is potentially more so it is a valid cost IMO.
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