Cyclist Blocked on Pedestrian Crossing
Discussion
heebeegeetee said:
If Pistonheads is in any way indicative of motoring enthusiasm, then I'm going to say that given the sheer number of cycling threads and given the views contained therein, there is no way that motoring enthusiasts can be thought to be better drivers.
I agree. I also think that the cyclist in the video was in the wrong.
Devil2575 said:
Ares said:
Most people speeding is nothing to do with awareness. Most know fine well they are going more than 30. Making progress is nothing to do with awareness!....those emotionally detached from driving however are often the ones who inadvertently knock over the cyclist (two friends in the last 12 months knocked off their bikes by absent minded drivers, both quite clearly not enthusiasts given their choice of car ;-) )
And I don't say only enthusiasts have well maintained cars, but from personal experience, majority of enthusiasts will be more aware on the roads, and more aware of their cars. Three of my neighbours who have no interest in driving, have no idea when their service is due, when their MOT is due and never check tyres/oil etc. My wife also falls into that category. Majority of enthusiasts I know do check these things.
As for the cyclist point/opposite - I CBA reading 9 pages of anti-bike diatribe, so forgive me. I'm right, they are wrong. Lesuire cyclists are far far far better on the road than commuters. ;-)
The reality is that this is just what you think and I'm going to wager that you think it because it fits your world view. However the reality is that neither you nor I know the answer we are only guessing based on what we think sounds plausible.And I don't say only enthusiasts have well maintained cars, but from personal experience, majority of enthusiasts will be more aware on the roads, and more aware of their cars. Three of my neighbours who have no interest in driving, have no idea when their service is due, when their MOT is due and never check tyres/oil etc. My wife also falls into that category. Majority of enthusiasts I know do check these things.
As for the cyclist point/opposite - I CBA reading 9 pages of anti-bike diatribe, so forgive me. I'm right, they are wrong. Lesuire cyclists are far far far better on the road than commuters. ;-)
You have come up with reasons why motoring enthusiasts would be better drivers, I can come up with reasons why they wouldn't. I suspect that the answer is that it makes very little difference. By making progress I mean wanting to drive fast. If one of your main interests is having a spirited drive in your sports car then having someone in front who you cannot easily pass who is driving a lower than the speed limit is going to cause immense frustration. It's not like all that is at stake is the time you will reach your destination, it's the fact that this driver is spoiling your enjoyment of the drive.
I think that one of the bigest factors in how good a driver you are is attitude and temperament. neither of these have any connection to whether you are a motoring enthusiast or not. An enthusiast can just as easily have an over inflated view of his own self importance and think that other drivers should get out of his way.
I think you're confusing emotional detachment from not caring.
Doesn't factor in that there can be w
kers behind the wheel/in the saddle from any walk of life.popeyewhite said:
heebeegeetee said:
If Pistonheads is in any way indicative of motoring enthusiasm, then I'm going to say that given the sheer number of cycling threads and given the views contained therein, there is no way that motoring enthusiasts can be thought to be better drivers.
Could be easily argued motoring enthusiasm and 'motoring enthusiasts' are separate concepts. Just saying.
Ares said:
popeyewhite said:
heebeegeetee said:
If Pistonheads is in any way indicative of motoring enthusiasm, then I'm going to say that given the sheer number of cycling threads and given the views contained therein, there is no way that motoring enthusiasts can be thought to be better drivers.
Could be easily argued motoring enthusiasm and 'motoring enthusiasts' are separate concepts. Just saying.
Why have you quoted me?popeyewhite said:
Ares said:
popeyewhite said:
heebeegeetee said:
If Pistonheads is in any way indicative of motoring enthusiasm, then I'm going to say that given the sheer number of cycling threads and given the views contained therein, there is no way that motoring enthusiasts can be thought to be better drivers.
Could be easily argued motoring enthusiasm and 'motoring enthusiasts' are separate concepts. Just saying. Why have you quoted me?Ares said:
Other way around. Opinion based on observed behaviour/examples.
You might think that but there's a good chance it isn't the case. Humans aren't as rational as you might think. There's a very good podcast on this subject called "The Human zoo". Worth a listen if you're at all interested.Also there is a very good chance that your personal observations are subject to biases that mean you tend to see what you want to see.
Ares said:
Doesn't factor in that there can be wkers behind the wheel/in the saddle from any walk of life.
True, wkers behind the wheel/in the saddle from any walk of life.kers come in all shapes, sizes and modes of transport.Steve vRS said:
Devil2575 said:
True, wkers come in all shapes, sizes and modes of transport.
That's something that most posters on these anti-cycling threads fail to grasp. kers come in all shapes, sizes and modes of transport.jamei303 said:
Where does the Highway Code or the law say to "wait"?
Highway code rule 195 states "you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing".It then goes on to cite the traffic law which governs this highway code rule - 'ZPPPCRGD reg 25'
Under section 14 of that law it states:
Significance of give-way lines at Zebra crossings
14. A give-way line included in the markings placed pursuant to regulation 5(1)(b) and Part II of Schedule 1 shall convey to vehicular traffic proceeding towards a Zebra crossing the position at or before which a vehicle should be stopped for the purpose of complying with regulation 25 (precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Zebra crossings).
The give way line at a zebra crossing means stop. To proceed past the give way line whilst pedestrians are on the crossing is in clear violation of this traffic law.
popeyewhite said:
Ares said:
popeyewhite said:
No it doesn't. I think you've misunderstood my post.
Original points, the thread, the discussion, not just yours. If I wanted to just quote your post, I would have just quoted your post. HTH
Moonhawk said:
Highway code rule 195 states "you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing".
It then goes on to cite the traffic law which governs this highway code rule - 'ZPPPCRGD reg 25'
Under section 14 of that law it states:
Significance of give-way lines at Zebra crossings
14. A give-way line included in the markings placed pursuant to regulation 5(1)(b) and Part II of Schedule 1 shall convey to vehicular traffic proceeding towards a Zebra crossing the position at or before which a vehicle should be stopped for the purpose of complying with regulation 25 (precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Zebra crossings).
The give way line at a zebra crossing means stop. To proceed past the give way line whilst pedestrians are on the crossing is in clear violation of this traffic law.
Well found moonhawkIt then goes on to cite the traffic law which governs this highway code rule - 'ZPPPCRGD reg 25'
Under section 14 of that law it states:
Significance of give-way lines at Zebra crossings
14. A give-way line included in the markings placed pursuant to regulation 5(1)(b) and Part II of Schedule 1 shall convey to vehicular traffic proceeding towards a Zebra crossing the position at or before which a vehicle should be stopped for the purpose of complying with regulation 25 (precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Zebra crossings).
The give way line at a zebra crossing means stop. To proceed past the give way line whilst pedestrians are on the crossing is in clear violation of this traffic law.
Moonhawk said:
Highway code rule 195 states "you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing".
It then goes on to cite the traffic law which governs this highway code rule - 'ZPPPCRGD reg 25'
Under section 14 of that law it states:
Significance of give-way lines at Zebra crossings
14. A give-way line included in the markings placed pursuant to regulation 5(1)(b) and Part II of Schedule 1 shall convey to vehicular traffic proceeding towards a Zebra crossing the position at or before which a vehicle should be stopped for the purpose of complying with regulation 25 (precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Zebra crossings).
The give way line at a zebra crossing means stop. To proceed past the give way line whilst pedestrians are on the crossing is in clear violation of this traffic law.
You misinterpret the wording. It's a "give-way line" line not a "stop" line. Unlike the latter, it's not a line where a vehicle must stop, but a line to indicate where a vehicle "should be stopped" if it is necessary to do so in order to give precedence to a pedestrian. If stopping were required the regulation would state that a vehicle "must not proceed" beyond the line whilst a pedestrian is within the limits of the crossing.It then goes on to cite the traffic law which governs this highway code rule - 'ZPPPCRGD reg 25'
Under section 14 of that law it states:
Significance of give-way lines at Zebra crossings
14. A give-way line included in the markings placed pursuant to regulation 5(1)(b) and Part II of Schedule 1 shall convey to vehicular traffic proceeding towards a Zebra crossing the position at or before which a vehicle should be stopped for the purpose of complying with regulation 25 (precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Zebra crossings).
The give way line at a zebra crossing means stop. To proceed past the give way line whilst pedestrians are on the crossing is in clear violation of this traffic law.
jamei303 said:
Moonhawk said:
Highway code rule 195 states "you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing".
It then goes on to cite the traffic law which governs this highway code rule - 'ZPPPCRGD reg 25'
Under section 14 of that law it states:
Significance of give-way lines at Zebra crossings
14. A give-way line included in the markings placed pursuant to regulation 5(1)(b) and Part II of Schedule 1 shall convey to vehicular traffic proceeding towards a Zebra crossing the position at or before which a vehicle should be stopped for the purpose of complying with regulation 25 (precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Zebra crossings).
The give way line at a zebra crossing means stop. To proceed past the give way line whilst pedestrians are on the crossing is in clear violation of this traffic law.
You misinterpret the wording. It's a "give-way line" line not a "stop" line. Unlike the latter, it's not a line where a vehicle must stop, but a line to indicate where a vehicle "should be stopped" if it is necessary to do so in order to give precedence to a pedestrian. If stopping were required the regulation would state that a vehicle "must not proceed" beyond the line whilst a pedestrian is within the limits of the crossing.It then goes on to cite the traffic law which governs this highway code rule - 'ZPPPCRGD reg 25'
Under section 14 of that law it states:
Significance of give-way lines at Zebra crossings
14. A give-way line included in the markings placed pursuant to regulation 5(1)(b) and Part II of Schedule 1 shall convey to vehicular traffic proceeding towards a Zebra crossing the position at or before which a vehicle should be stopped for the purpose of complying with regulation 25 (precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Zebra crossings).
The give way line at a zebra crossing means stop. To proceed past the give way line whilst pedestrians are on the crossing is in clear violation of this traffic law.
"A give-way line included in the markings placed pursuant to regulation 5(1)(b) and Part II of Schedule 1 shall convey to vehicular traffic proceeding towards a Zebra crossing the position at or before which a vehicle should be stopped for the purpose of complying with regulation 25"
How would you interpret that paragraph?
I agree a give way line does not generally mean you have to stop (unlike an actual stop line) - but for the purposes of the law which governs zebra crossings - it appears to convey specific significance to the give way markings to mean stop - hence why there is a separate section called "Significance of give-way lines at Zebra crossings"
Edited by Moonhawk on Wednesday 5th October 21:29
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