Help for another sail boat dreamer.
Discussion
We have been looking at a villa somewhere in Greece or Spain to live in most of the year, however i have started to wonder about a sail boat.
I have no knowledge of these things but am sensible enough to know that a good level of training and accompanied sailing would be a good idea before i sail off into the sunset.
That said what would be the mnimum size boat required for safely crossing seas to explore Spain,Greece, Italy etc? and what kind of automation can be used to make it more manageable (my wife is more the dainty painting of toenails in a sunhat kind of lass, not the kind to winch up a sail).
Im thinking a sailboat would have cheaper running costs than a motorboat as no fuel required if enough wind, and seeing as we wouldnt NEED to ge be anywhere could wait a while to minimise engine usage.
Im sure a lot of this has caused a few of you seasoned seagoers to shake your head and assume i will die but bear with me please and I'll do my best to learn and take advice onboard.
I have no knowledge of these things but am sensible enough to know that a good level of training and accompanied sailing would be a good idea before i sail off into the sunset.
That said what would be the mnimum size boat required for safely crossing seas to explore Spain,Greece, Italy etc? and what kind of automation can be used to make it more manageable (my wife is more the dainty painting of toenails in a sunhat kind of lass, not the kind to winch up a sail).
Im thinking a sailboat would have cheaper running costs than a motorboat as no fuel required if enough wind, and seeing as we wouldnt NEED to ge be anywhere could wait a while to minimise engine usage.
Im sure a lot of this has caused a few of you seasoned seagoers to shake your head and assume i will die but bear with me please and I'll do my best to learn and take advice onboard.
If I were you I would hire a sailing boat with your wife round the Greek islands first (after doing a sailing course) and see if you both like it before jumping in and buying one. The costs do mount up quite quickly and Spain and Greece are quite a long way apart. My dad and uncle bought a yacht which they go sailing in round Long Island but now they are in their 70s they tend to just go out for the day and prefer the home comforts at night.
What about something like this http://www.clippermarine.co.uk/new-boats/bavaria-y... would this be suitable for a live aboard which could travel across open sea?
Seems like it would cost less than a villa, at least to buy!
Seems like it would cost less than a villa, at least to buy!
Learn to sail - preferably in a small lively dingy - and get the necessary certificates then take several charter holidays on 30 - 40 foot yachts in different destinations and weather conditions. You'll soon find sailing isn't all about gently drifting along fiddling with electronic gizmos and sipping a lunchtime weapons grade G&T in the blazing sunshine.
And always keep in mind if it Floats, Flies or Fux...
And always keep in mind if it Floats, Flies or Fux...
Sorry let me clarify, im in my late 30's and will be looking to retire in about 10 years. If i go down this route then i would be looking to buy anywhere in 5-10 years time so giving myself time to hire a boat for a month or so, take some quality training and maybe even work on a boat anything basically in order to be safe.
I dont have a bottomless pit of money so would just like to know if this is something worth persuing or not.
Is the Bavaria 46 a good size of boat for what i am after, should i be looking for bigger, would i be able to anchor in a bay instead of taking into a harbour, and what would the typical maintenance/running costs be.
I am not saying i would buy the Bavaria, only asking about the size.
I dont have a bottomless pit of money so would just like to know if this is something worth persuing or not.
Is the Bavaria 46 a good size of boat for what i am after, should i be looking for bigger, would i be able to anchor in a bay instead of taking into a harbour, and what would the typical maintenance/running costs be.
I am not saying i would buy the Bavaria, only asking about the size.
People have sailed much smaller boats than that across the Atlantic...
http://www.yachtingworld.com/features/solo-across-...
I crewed on a Contessa 32 for a number of years, and these have been sailed round the world and will stand up to pretty much any weather.
But personally, I'd want something around 50-60ft for living on (semi) permanently... for the extra stability in heavy weather and to get more space below to store everything (including a nice wine collection!). It would need to be set up properly for short handed sailing though... eg; electric winches controllable from the helm, hydraulic sail furling, a top notch auto helm (and a back-up), etc.
If you were thinking of doing proper long distance sailing, I'd be looking to buy a boat that had a proven reputation for standing up to the abuse and was already set up for long distance cruising. A Halberg Rassey or a Swan that already had all the nav gear, weather forecasting systems, multiple sets of sails, water maker, sat gear, safety gear, etc etc etc etc... they will be more expensive than the Bavaria, but they are MUCH better built.
http://www.yachtingworld.com/features/solo-across-...
I crewed on a Contessa 32 for a number of years, and these have been sailed round the world and will stand up to pretty much any weather.
But personally, I'd want something around 50-60ft for living on (semi) permanently... for the extra stability in heavy weather and to get more space below to store everything (including a nice wine collection!). It would need to be set up properly for short handed sailing though... eg; electric winches controllable from the helm, hydraulic sail furling, a top notch auto helm (and a back-up), etc.
If you were thinking of doing proper long distance sailing, I'd be looking to buy a boat that had a proven reputation for standing up to the abuse and was already set up for long distance cruising. A Halberg Rassey or a Swan that already had all the nav gear, weather forecasting systems, multiple sets of sails, water maker, sat gear, safety gear, etc etc etc etc... they will be more expensive than the Bavaria, but they are MUCH better built.
It could be worse, even if the boat doesnt happen i will be lucky enough to be able to retire in my forties and move to a nice villa somewhere sunny.
I did look at the swan boats and these seem to be around a million pounds secondhand for a 50ft plus unless im looking at the wrong ones.
was trying to avoid mentions of money but i guess it is important for a budget.
I was thinking of £800 to £1.3 for a villa, my assumption for a boat due to the far higher running costs would be to divide this by four so £200/300k for the boat with the rest for running costs for a duration of 10/15 years, is this a sensible prediction?
I did look at the swan boats and these seem to be around a million pounds secondhand for a 50ft plus unless im looking at the wrong ones.
was trying to avoid mentions of money but i guess it is important for a budget.
I was thinking of £800 to £1.3 for a villa, my assumption for a boat due to the far higher running costs would be to divide this by four so £200/300k for the boat with the rest for running costs for a duration of 10/15 years, is this a sensible prediction?
Edited by Sheetmaself on Saturday 1st October 10:57
Not all 'painted toenails and sun-hat lasses' appreciate being imprisoned in boat for any length of time. If they don't enjoy winches/lines/hauling damp canvas around, they tend to get relegated to galley slave duties, with predictable results.
Chartering first would be useful and there are RYA courses in the Med.
As to size, people go around the world on 10-15 metre boats, more is less cramped, but costs escalate. The Yottie forums are full of people who have lived the dream, some of them newly single.
It takes a while to become a good sailer, the RYA is the main provider of courses/quals in the UK and just getting the 'ticket' tends to shake down the aspirational.
Costs aside, sailboats tend to have range limited by water and food supplies, can still go forwards if the engine stops, and so forth. Many yotties size down to twin engined motor boats as they age and knees refuse to bend as once they did. Motor boats get you there quicker, sail boats take longer.
Mooring outside harbours usually requires a tender, and space to store this is tight on smaller yachts/boats, even with an inflatable.
Th automation side of sailing is vey comprehensive now, with GPS auto-pilots, chart plotters and so on.
However, if it all works out it can be very rewarding, assuming it doesn't result in divorce.
More here:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/index.php
Chartering first would be useful and there are RYA courses in the Med.
As to size, people go around the world on 10-15 metre boats, more is less cramped, but costs escalate. The Yottie forums are full of people who have lived the dream, some of them newly single.
It takes a while to become a good sailer, the RYA is the main provider of courses/quals in the UK and just getting the 'ticket' tends to shake down the aspirational.
Costs aside, sailboats tend to have range limited by water and food supplies, can still go forwards if the engine stops, and so forth. Many yotties size down to twin engined motor boats as they age and knees refuse to bend as once they did. Motor boats get you there quicker, sail boats take longer.
Mooring outside harbours usually requires a tender, and space to store this is tight on smaller yachts/boats, even with an inflatable.
Th automation side of sailing is vey comprehensive now, with GPS auto-pilots, chart plotters and so on.
However, if it all works out it can be very rewarding, assuming it doesn't result in divorce.
More here:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/index.php
Edited by Slushbox on Saturday 1st October 11:35
Sheetmaself said:
It could be worse, even if the boat doesnt happen i will be lucky enough to be able to retire in my forties and move to a nice villa somewhere sunny.
I did look at the swan boats and these seem to be around a million pounds secondhand for a 50ft plus unless im looking at the wrong ones.
was trying to avoid mentions of money but i guess it is important for a budget.
I was thinking of £800 to £1.3 for a villa, my assumption for a boat due to the far higher running costs would be to divide this by four so £200/300k for the boat with the rest for running costs for a duration of 10/15 years, is this a sensible prediction?
Buy a villa for £800k then spend £100k on a 36-40ft boat that can live in a local marina, use it for day sailing then gradually go further, employ a instructor/skipper at first. Prior to that do a sunsail day skipper course in BVI, its only about £700 each and lasts a week, that way you will find out if spending time on a boat is for youI did look at the swan boats and these seem to be around a million pounds secondhand for a 50ft plus unless im looking at the wrong ones.
was trying to avoid mentions of money but i guess it is important for a budget.
I was thinking of £800 to £1.3 for a villa, my assumption for a boat due to the far higher running costs would be to divide this by four so £200/300k for the boat with the rest for running costs for a duration of 10/15 years, is this a sensible prediction?
Edited by Sheetmaself on Saturday 1st October 10:57
Buying the villa and a boat was my thinking but then i wondered if i could have my cake and eat it by just buying a boat.
Spending £750 on a boat i do not see that happening without changing my lifestyle due to cost but i am comfortable at the £300 range.
I have other properties so if i bought a villa i would not be spending all year there just a significant period of time. The live aboard boat if that route was taken would be ised to move between these properties potentially.
Spending £750 on a boat i do not see that happening without changing my lifestyle due to cost but i am comfortable at the £300 range.
I have other properties so if i bought a villa i would not be spending all year there just a significant period of time. The live aboard boat if that route was taken would be ised to move between these properties potentially.
If safety is the number 1 consideration, maybe a cruising catamaran would suit your needs. There are several ~40 ft cats which are ok as far as sailing performance goes, e.g. Bavaria (Nautitech) 40 Open. Two engines gives piece of mind and are a doodle to manoeuvre in close quarters. If you happen to put a hole in one of the hulls (say from a submerged obstacle) it will most likely stay afloat as well. Deck and saloon space is massive compared to similar length monohulls.
For the true sailing experience most will argue that you can only have one hull, so if that's the case and there are only two of you on board, then take a look at Beneteau Sense which loses the aft accommodation for a much lower cockpit that makes entry into the interior/saloon a lot simpler. Good luck!
For the true sailing experience most will argue that you can only have one hull, so if that's the case and there are only two of you on board, then take a look at Beneteau Sense which loses the aft accommodation for a much lower cockpit that makes entry into the interior/saloon a lot simpler. Good luck!
By way of inspiration - last weekend I met two girls with zero sailing experience or background, who one day decided to buy themselves a 60 foot steel schooner. They moved aboard and taught themselves to sail. They now carry passengers around the Caribbean. This is a boat with two masts, gaff rigged sails on each, topsails, staysail, jib and flying jib, and a square sail on a yard.
If you have the time and the money, JFDI !
If you have the time and the money, JFDI !
That boat is beautiful but the number of ropes scares me!
I do need to be realistic about the amount of work which can be done, my wife is a dainty size 8 and would muck in but there is a limit to what she would be able to do strength wise.
I assume,for a cost, automation can be added to most boats. And like most things it is slcheaper to buy a well modified boat than modify one myself.
I do need to be realistic about the amount of work which can be done, my wife is a dainty size 8 and would muck in but there is a limit to what she would be able to do strength wise.
I assume,for a cost, automation can be added to most boats. And like most things it is slcheaper to buy a well modified boat than modify one myself.
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