Is haggling to be expected on a dealer's price (used cars)?
Discussion
Honestly I wouldnt buy if the dealer didn't wiggle a bit on the list price, even if its only a couple of % off. Its just the principle of it. The old rule ive heard from family members that used to work in the car trade is to set the list price at ~10% more than what you intend to get, based on my experience of haggling this seems to be accurate.
Although personally I avoid used car dealers like the plague now, far to many bad experiences.
Although personally I avoid used car dealers like the plague now, far to many bad experiences.
soupdragon1 said:
I'm currently haggling for a used BMW X6.
BMW main dealer approved used - on the website at £28k
Initially offer £8k for our range rover sport, then upped it to £8.5k, so just under £20k to change. I walked away.
I sold the Range Rover privately for £10,750 this week
I then went back to the dealer via email and showed him 4 cars in England that I was considering (I'm in N Ireland) and told him we are ready to buy, but I will be flying to England to get one of the 4 unless we could do some negotiation. I offer him £26k, so £2k less. He came back with £1.5k off. I then got him to throw in and extra years warranty for £300 (full BMW used approved warranty)
The cars in England only came with 3 months non dealership warranty so overall, the local deal is looking good. We're ready to buy now and I've put a thread on here to see which one of 2 X6's I should buy.
In summary, from walking into the showroom the 1st time, I've saved £2,250 by selling privately, then got £1.5k off the list price of a £28k car, and then bagged an extra years proper warranty for £300.
So yes, there is always room for haggling!
There is usually room on a car there is little market demand on, most probably as the dealer paid little in the first place and then stickers it high to then sell it as a discounted sale. Just look how many over-prices unloved cars get listed like this.BMW main dealer approved used - on the website at £28k
Initially offer £8k for our range rover sport, then upped it to £8.5k, so just under £20k to change. I walked away.
I sold the Range Rover privately for £10,750 this week
I then went back to the dealer via email and showed him 4 cars in England that I was considering (I'm in N Ireland) and told him we are ready to buy, but I will be flying to England to get one of the 4 unless we could do some negotiation. I offer him £26k, so £2k less. He came back with £1.5k off. I then got him to throw in and extra years warranty for £300 (full BMW used approved warranty)
The cars in England only came with 3 months non dealership warranty so overall, the local deal is looking good. We're ready to buy now and I've put a thread on here to see which one of 2 X6's I should buy.
In summary, from walking into the showroom the 1st time, I've saved £2,250 by selling privately, then got £1.5k off the list price of a £28k car, and then bagged an extra years proper warranty for £300.
So yes, there is always room for haggling!
I've privately sold cars that I've been glad to see anyone offer anything on and also ones where I won't move a penny on as the demand is so great and the supply so small.
I've got an XJ8 to get shut of (inherited - don't ask) that if I'll be asking £400 as I might get someone hard of thinking who sees it but if anyone offers me £200, I'll offer them a jar of honey to sweeten the deal.
As for buying, I've had traders throwing 10% reductions on cars I don't want at any price, likewise, I've tried knocking £50 off and been refused to then find the car has sold the following day after I've come to my senses realising it was a good deal in the first place.
I don't think there is a hard and fast rule. They want to sell or not - you want to buy or not.
I really don't like it when someone offers a reduction just because they expect one. Persuade me why my idea of price is wrong and we can have a deal.
caelite said:
Honestly I wouldnt buy if the dealer didn't wiggle a bit on the list price, even if its only a couple of % off. Its just the principle of it. The old rule ive heard from family members that used to work in the car trade is to set the list price at ~10% more than what you intend to get, based on my experience of haggling this seems to be accurate.
Although personally I avoid used car dealers like the plague now, far to many bad experiences.
Before the internet I guess?Although personally I avoid used car dealers like the plague now, far to many bad experiences.
Now due to the internet the country is a very small place, if you are too much then no one would even glance at your car and it will also be on the wrong page of Autotrader; all the cheaper stuff is page 1, more expensive and you are page 2 or 3, where you may as well be invisible.
Put simply dealers cannot over price their cars anymore or ask too much as it is so competitive out there and the everyday person only has to fire up their PC to find a cheaper car.
Sure some can get thousands off cars, but these are usually hard to shift undesirable models, spec or engines which a dealer is standing it in at pretty much what it owes because for some reason, it just doesn't want to shift and has been hanging around for ages and the dealer has just decided to cut their losses to get shot of it; a dealer has to only get it slightly wrong on the lumpy stuff to be stuck with it, or they "stole" it from someone it has a massive margin, isn't a particularly popular car or spec and the first sniff is the best, there is always a reason why lumpy stuff can attract big discounts.
We rarely discount our used car, like someone on here who has already mentioned that they rarely discount, we are in the high 90% bracket of selling our used cars at full price.
Some people obviously chance their arm and look at a car that is over their budget because "all dealers knock off at least £1000", err no they don't.
We had a guy storm out last week because we wouldn't "do a deal" on a Focus that we have for sale, it was the cheapest of it's spec, age and mileage in the country, oh well, we sold it to someone else the same day at the price that it was up for.
Edited by HTP99 on Sunday 9th October 13:28
daemon said:
I dont agree.
You're working on the assumption the dealer "has" to sell you the car at YOUR price.
Good stock is harder to get than good customers.
Go in all Johnny Big Balls with a silly offer and they're likely to politely usher you to the door
This, selling a good quality used car is a piece of cake, you can sell it ten timesYou're working on the assumption the dealer "has" to sell you the car at YOUR price.
Good stock is harder to get than good customers.
Go in all Johnny Big Balls with a silly offer and they're likely to politely usher you to the door
Buying is the hard part.
HTP99 said:
caelite said:
Honestly I wouldnt buy if the dealer didn't wiggle a bit on the list price, even if its only a couple of % off. Its just the principle of it. The old rule ive heard from family members that used to work in the car trade is to set the list price at ~10% more than what you intend to get, based on my experience of haggling this seems to be accurate.
Although personally I avoid used car dealers like the plague now, far to many bad experiences.
Before the internet I guess?Although personally I avoid used car dealers like the plague now, far to many bad experiences.
Now due to the internet the country is a very small place, if you are too much then no one would even glance at your car and it will also be on the wrong page of Autotrader; all the cheaper stuff is page 1, more expensive and you are page 2 or 3, where you may as well be invisible.
Put simply dealers cannot over price their cars anymore or ask too much as it is so competitive out there and the everyday person only has to fire up their PC to find a cheaper car.
Sure some can get thousands off cars, but these are usually hard to shift undesirable models, spec or engines which a dealer is standing it in at pretty much what it owes because for some reason, it just doesn't want to shift and has been hanging around for ages and the dealer has just decided to cut their losses to get shot of it; a dealer has to only get it slightly wrong on the lumpy stuff to be stuck with it, or they "stole" it from someone it has a massive margin, isn't a particularly popular car or spec and the first sniff is the best, there is always a reason why lumpy stuff can attract big discounts.
We rarely discount our used car, like someone on here who has already mentioned that they rarely discount, we are in the high 90% bracket of selling our used cars at full price.
Some people obviously chance their arm and look at a car that is over their budget because "all dealers knock off at least £1000", err no they don't.
We had a guy storm out last week because we wouldn't "do a deal" on a Focus that we have for sale, it was the cheapest of it's spec, age and mileage in the country, oh well, we sold it to someone else the same day at the price that it was up for.
Thats exactly it
Even though we priced our cars as the cheapest online in the province, we'd still people who would take umerage to us not knocking further £££s off the price.
I'd one woman tell her sister not to buy the car she was looking at with it as the car she'd bought off recently had knocked £1,000 off the price and gave her flowers when we only knocked £200 off the price of ours. I pointed out that the car we were selling was £2,000 cheaper than an equivalent car from that particular dealer, which would make them very expensive flowers....
Edited by HTP99 on Sunday 9th October 13:28[/footnote]
[footnote]Edited by daemon on Sunday 9th October 15:25b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Do people really do mats and flaps in 2016? 
Tank of fuel I could get, but literally mats and flaps?!
Absolutely...check the price of these items (which the dealer buys at cost remember) they are a money making accessory nothing else, they should come standard on all cars.Tank of fuel I could get, but literally mats and flaps?!
All the paint / upholstery protection crap they want you buy...same thing easy money for the dealers.
Klippie said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Do people really do mats and flaps in 2016?
Tank of fuel I could get, but literally mats and flaps?!
Absolutely...check the price of these items (which the dealer buys at cost remember) they are a money making accessory nothing else, they should come standard on all cars.Tank of fuel I could get, but literally mats and flaps?!
All the paint / upholstery protection crap they want you buy...same thing easy money for the dealers.
Parts and sales departments are run as separate entities for starters, the parts department still make money out of the sales department, sure we will get a level of discount but not a huge one and TBH neither does the parts department; accessories tend to have the lowest margin for items that come out of the parts department.
If I sell a set of mats for the retail price; say £55, there is only about £5-£10 profit margin in them for the sales department.
caelite said:
Honestly I wouldnt buy if the dealer didn't wiggle a bit on the list price, even if its only a couple of % off. Its just the principle of it. The old rule ive heard from family members that used to work in the car trade is to set the list price at ~10% more than what you intend to get, based on my experience of haggling this seems to be accurate.
Although personally I avoid used car dealers like the plague now, far to many bad experiences.
Always a favourite of mine this one, I've had people not buy cars on 'principle' becuase I wouldn't take £100 more off. Right on brotherman! Although personally I avoid used car dealers like the plague now, far to many bad experiences.
It's a clinker that one.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:BenjiS said:
He just couldn't match it apparently, so I ordered from the Carwow one. Shame for him, as he'd spent several hours with me, and even given me one of his demo cars for a day. But much as I liked him, 11% off list beats 4% off any day.
Yes and I wouldn't blame you, my point was that you could do that rather than haggling for some unachievable discount, not getting it, doing the "I'll go elsewhere you'll be sorry you'll all be sorry" thing and then coming back a few days later because you couldn't get it elsewhere either I think you need to do your home work before buying a car. See a few and find out what the going rate is for that model, spec, mileage, condition. Then if the one you want to buy is over priced you can use this as leverage to try and get a fair deal.
I've made my fair share of mistakes buying cars, I lacked research in my last purchase, I knew everything about diesel versions, nothing about turbo petrol. I paid on the high side of the price range for the car. He did give me a good trade in price tho, and moved a little on price. Got a feeling he would have moved more if I went in prepared, he was a nice guy tho.
I have a work mate who is a nightmare, I feel for any salesman having to deal with him. He wants the cars perfect and will try so hard to get money off.
As others have pointed out, good cars sell themself. It's very hard to come across a really good condition, well maintained car at a fair price.
I've made my fair share of mistakes buying cars, I lacked research in my last purchase, I knew everything about diesel versions, nothing about turbo petrol. I paid on the high side of the price range for the car. He did give me a good trade in price tho, and moved a little on price. Got a feeling he would have moved more if I went in prepared, he was a nice guy tho.
I have a work mate who is a nightmare, I feel for any salesman having to deal with him. He wants the cars perfect and will try so hard to get money off.
As others have pointed out, good cars sell themself. It's very hard to come across a really good condition, well maintained car at a fair price.
Some dealers start insanely high. Just in case. Usually India specialists. Case in point, a red 2009 Jaguar XKR on AT a while now. Started at £31k now £27k. It is a £25k car. Maybe selling for someone who wanted them to start high? With main dealers prices are all over the place. Stratstone seem to be reasonable and chip down by some maths or other till they find a buyer. Other Jag dealers start high and seem to stay there.
Car magazines were saying RS5 would retain 50%,of new value after 3 years. Yet 5 year old ones are now asking £30k (which is about 50%). We are back to 'trade' value I guess. Maybe those dealers seling at £30k bought the cars for £22k?
I suppose best to simply decide what price you are prepared to pay (or cost to change) and offe that. The dealer can accept or not....
Car magazines were saying RS5 would retain 50%,of new value after 3 years. Yet 5 year old ones are now asking £30k (which is about 50%). We are back to 'trade' value I guess. Maybe those dealers seling at £30k bought the cars for £22k?
I suppose best to simply decide what price you are prepared to pay (or cost to change) and offe that. The dealer can accept or not....
As someone who works for a Franchised Main dealer (Toyota) i would say about 40-50% of our customers try to haggle on used stock (new is different) and we end up discounting 20% of our used cars but this is generally in the region of £100-£150. Our profit margins are small now due to the use of the internet, as others have said you need to be on page 1 of Autotrader if you want a chance of being noticed.
My pet peeve is people (some on this thread!) who make out that we make 'obscene' profits from selling cars, as if we shouldn't make any money. People will happily go into John Lewis and buy a coat etc. that will have a far greater profit % than any car and won't grudge John Lewis for it!
My pet peeve is people (some on this thread!) who make out that we make 'obscene' profits from selling cars, as if we shouldn't make any money. People will happily go into John Lewis and buy a coat etc. that will have a far greater profit % than any car and won't grudge John Lewis for it!
Baked_bean said:
My pet peeve is people (some on this thread!) who make out that we make 'obscene' profits from selling cars, as if we shouldn't make any money. People will happily go into John Lewis and buy a coat etc. that will have a far greater profit % than any car and won't grudge John Lewis for it!
And they conveniently forget the cost of renting a large site, rates, electric, heating, staffing costs, prep costs, warranty costs, VAT and an allowance for tax all have to come out of that gross margin too.Baked_bean said:
As someone who works for a Franchised Main dealer (Toyota) i would say about 40-50% of our customers try to haggle on used stock (new is different) and we end up discounting 20% of our used cars but this is generally in the region of £100-£150. Our profit margins are small now due to the use of the internet, as others have said you need to be on page 1 of Autotrader if you want a chance of being noticed.
My pet peeve is people (some on this thread!) who make out that we make 'obscene' profits from selling cars, as if we shouldn't make any money. People will happily go into John Lewis and buy a coat etc. that will have a far greater profit % than any car and won't grudge John Lewis for it!
These are the same customers assume that because the car they bought was £11,995 we now have £11,995 profit... If only!My pet peeve is people (some on this thread!) who make out that we make 'obscene' profits from selling cars, as if we shouldn't make any money. People will happily go into John Lewis and buy a coat etc. that will have a far greater profit % than any car and won't grudge John Lewis for it!
HTP99 said:
Before the internet I guess?
Now due to the internet the country is a very small place, if you are too much then no one would even glance at your car and it will also be on the wrong page of Autotrader; all the cheaper stuff is page 1, more expensive and you are page 2 or 3, where you may as well be invisible.
I search by distance within a price range, I'm certainly not going to travel 100 miles to save £100...Now due to the internet the country is a very small place, if you are too much then no one would even glance at your car and it will also be on the wrong page of Autotrader; all the cheaper stuff is page 1, more expensive and you are page 2 or 3, where you may as well be invisible.
I understand what you're saying about being competitive on price but surely there's more to it than being on page 1 of an Autotrader search?
93DW said:
The worst types are people who push for a discount for no reason, If someone can give me a valid reason for negotiation im all ears but if its just because "You're supposed to" then just no.
The reason is that any used car business would have to be run by idiots if they fixed the sticker price on their cars at the absolute minimum margin that the business can tolerate.There's always some extra 'bunce' in there, so any sensible salesman will realise that the compromise between profit margin and turnover means there's always room for some negotiation.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Do people really do mats and flaps in 2016?
Tank of fuel I could get, but literally mats and flaps?!
Id like some mats. Tank of fuel I could get, but literally mats and flaps?!
Mud flaps are the preserve of w
kers these days 
In other news I know of a delivery miles mid engine supercar that was sold for a (slight) loss by a dealer. Since it had been sitting around for a while and was the outgoing model. And if I'm honest, not the best spec a more exacting customer would have chosen.
Baked_bean said:
My pet peeve is people (some on this thread!) who make out that we make 'obscene' profits from selling cars, as if we shouldn't make any money. People will happily go into John Lewis and buy a coat etc. that will have a far greater profit % than any car and won't grudge John Lewis for it!
Indeed. Just for funs sake. Bear in mind that Kwik Fit and the other big chains make 100% profit per tyre. Whereas dealers are tied to some third party who makes all the profit from the manufacturer then sells them to a dealer network for significantly more.daemon said:
Welshbeef said:
Has anyone ever tried haggling st a food super market? Same logic they ring all the food and bits through the till. Then give you the price and you then ask for the discounted price.
Clearly the cashier says no so you say can you get HR manager if they don't move at all you walk away but to them they have a trolley full of stuff which an employee now needs to put back on shelf and that isn't free.
I've never done it but seen some on the Money saving e pert site who have
Any links to that on MSE? I'm a big user of the forum and havent seen that. I dont think its common practice and i wouldnt imagine its recommended by the site as a discount tactic.Clearly the cashier says no so you say can you get HR manager if they don't move at all you walk away but to them they have a trolley full of stuff which an employee now needs to put back on shelf and that isn't free.
I've never done it but seen some on the Money saving e pert site who have
Why ask for the HR manager? - with many supermarkets, the HR manager wouldn't know where the shop floor was, you'd never get them up there to talk to them!
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