Is haggling to be expected on a dealer's price (used cars)?
Discussion
HTP99 said:
It is a common misconception that the sale department buy accessories for peanuts, we don't.
Parts and sales departments are run as separate entities for starters, the parts department still make money out of the sales department, sure we will get a level of discount but not a huge one and TBH neither does the parts department; accessories tend to have the lowest margin for items that come out of the parts department.
If I sell a set of mats for the retail price; say £55, there is only about £5-£10 profit margin in them for the sales department.
That's not painting a good picture of dealer mark-up's then is it, £10 profit on £55 I find that obscene, and you're saying that's a low profit margin, so please don't try and justify dealer prices when your telling us they are making nearly 20% on mats...oh the poor dealers.Parts and sales departments are run as separate entities for starters, the parts department still make money out of the sales department, sure we will get a level of discount but not a huge one and TBH neither does the parts department; accessories tend to have the lowest margin for items that come out of the parts department.
If I sell a set of mats for the retail price; say £55, there is only about £5-£10 profit margin in them for the sales department.
At the last service of my car I supplied my own oil the dealer wasn't happy but I insisted...they were going to charge £140 for 8L of oil the very same oil I bought from Costco for £60 and Costco were making money on the sale...greed that's all its is.
Klippie said:
That's not painting a good picture of dealer mark-up's then is it, £10 profit on £55 I find that obscene, and you're saying that's a low profit margin, so please don't try and justify dealer prices when your telling us they are making nearly 20% on mats...oh the poor dealers.
At the last service of my car I supplied my own oil the dealer wasn't happy but I insisted...they were going to charge £140 for 8L of oil the very same oil I bought from Costco for £60 and Costco were making money on the sale...greed that's all its is.
20% may seem like a lot - but that's gross margin. I'd love to know what net margin is after all costs have been taken out. I'm guessing less than 5%.At the last service of my car I supplied my own oil the dealer wasn't happy but I insisted...they were going to charge £140 for 8L of oil the very same oil I bought from Costco for £60 and Costco were making money on the sale...greed that's all its is.
Klippie said:
HTP99 said:
It is a common misconception that the sale department buy accessories for peanuts, we don't.
Parts and sales departments are run as separate entities for starters, the parts department still make money out of the sales department, sure we will get a level of discount but not a huge one and TBH neither does the parts department; accessories tend to have the lowest margin for items that come out of the parts department.
If I sell a set of mats for the retail price; say £55, there is only about £5-£10 profit margin in them for the sales department.
That's not painting a good picture of dealer mark-up's then is it, £10 profit on £55 I find that obscene, and you're saying that's a low profit margin, so please don't try and justify dealer prices when your telling us they are making nearly 20% on mats...oh the poor dealers.Parts and sales departments are run as separate entities for starters, the parts department still make money out of the sales department, sure we will get a level of discount but not a huge one and TBH neither does the parts department; accessories tend to have the lowest margin for items that come out of the parts department.
If I sell a set of mats for the retail price; say £55, there is only about £5-£10 profit margin in them for the sales department.
At the last service of my car I supplied my own oil the dealer wasn't happy but I insisted...they were going to charge £140 for 8L of oil the very same oil I bought from Costco for £60 and Costco were making money on the sale...greed that's all its is.
andymc said:
Klippie said:
HTP99 said:
It is a common misconception that the sale department buy accessories for peanuts, we don't.
Parts and sales departments are run as separate entities for starters, the parts department still make money out of the sales department, sure we will get a level of discount but not a huge one and TBH neither does the parts department; accessories tend to have the lowest margin for items that come out of the parts department.
If I sell a set of mats for the retail price; say £55, there is only about £5-£10 profit margin in them for the sales department.
That's not painting a good picture of dealer mark-up's then is it, £10 profit on £55 I find that obscene, and you're saying that's a low profit margin, so please don't try and justify dealer prices when your telling us they are making nearly 20% on mats...oh the poor dealers.Parts and sales departments are run as separate entities for starters, the parts department still make money out of the sales department, sure we will get a level of discount but not a huge one and TBH neither does the parts department; accessories tend to have the lowest margin for items that come out of the parts department.
If I sell a set of mats for the retail price; say £55, there is only about £5-£10 profit margin in them for the sales department.
At the last service of my car I supplied my own oil the dealer wasn't happy but I insisted...they were going to charge £140 for 8L of oil the very same oil I bought from Costco for £60 and Costco were making money on the sale...greed that's all its is.
What car, What oil please
andymc said:
no its business, if you wanted to supply your own oil I would turn you away
Which is pretty fair enough. Unless you had lots of empty /idle labour why would you fill up servicing with customers who are drastically reducing the margin. With supplying your own oil - what happens if something goes wrong? Let's say a fault in the oil you supplied for some reason and it ruins your engine? You have zero recourse rightly against the garage who put it into the car. Actually you'd not know or be able to prove if he oil was faulty or they accidentally put something in.
Highly unlikely to happen but it's all about insurances supply your own you have zilch
Welshbeef said:
Has anyone ever tried haggling st a food super market? Same logic they ring all the food and bits through the till. Then give you the price and you then ask for the discounted price.
When I lived in the Oman it was common to do this. The last time I went back, a couple of years ago, they were still open to a discount on a full shop. caelite said:
Honestly I wouldnt buy if the dealer didn't wiggle a bit on the list price, even if its only a couple of % off. Its just the principle of it. The old rule ive heard from family members that used to work in the car trade is to set the list price at ~10% more than what you intend to get, based on my experience of haggling this seems to be accurate.
Although personally I avoid used car dealers like the plague now, far to many bad experiences.
Yeah pal might have worked in 1993 but these days with autotrader national search of the price ain't right the phone won't ring. Although personally I avoid used car dealers like the plague now, far to many bad experiences.
95% of used cars I sell go at screen price. More and more customers are coming round to that idea.
Equus said:
93DW said:
The worst types are people who push for a discount for no reason, If someone can give me a valid reason for negotiation im all ears but if its just because "You're supposed to" then just no.
The reason is that any used car business would have to be run by idiots if they fixed the sticker price on their cars at the absolute minimum margin that the business can tolerate.There's always some extra 'bunce' in there, so any sensible salesman will realise that the compromise between profit margin and turnover means there's always room for some negotiation.
Likewise, they may well be able to discount if they want to, but chose not to.
Car Supermarkets dont negotiate on price. In fact they add charges on to the price.
Klippie said:
HTP99 said:
It is a common misconception that the sale department buy accessories for peanuts, we don't.
Parts and sales departments are run as separate entities for starters, the parts department still make money out of the sales department, sure we will get a level of discount but not a huge one and TBH neither does the parts department; accessories tend to have the lowest margin for items that come out of the parts department.
If I sell a set of mats for the retail price; say £55, there is only about £5-£10 profit margin in them for the sales department.
That's not painting a good picture of dealer mark-up's then is it, £10 profit on £55 I find that obscene, and you're saying that's a low profit margin, so please don't try and justify dealer prices when your telling us they are making nearly 20% on mats...oh the poor dealers.Parts and sales departments are run as separate entities for starters, the parts department still make money out of the sales department, sure we will get a level of discount but not a huge one and TBH neither does the parts department; accessories tend to have the lowest margin for items that come out of the parts department.
If I sell a set of mats for the retail price; say £55, there is only about £5-£10 profit margin in them for the sales department.
At the last service of my car I supplied my own oil the dealer wasn't happy but I insisted...they were going to charge £140 for 8L of oil the very same oil I bought from Costco for £60 and Costco were making money on the sale...greed that's all its is.
You're going to wreck the place when you find out the gross margin on a takeaway food..
Many years ago I had a friend who sold waterproof cases for old Nokia phones -leather backed with a sort of clear plastic front through which you pressed the buttons. He sold them for £19.99 each. He bought them wholesale for 7p from Vietnam
Likewise if you worry about mark up don't ever look into the price of bottled water wholesale.
I suspect most people have no idea what stuff actually costs - I know I don't
Likewise if you worry about mark up don't ever look into the price of bottled water wholesale.
I suspect most people have no idea what stuff actually costs - I know I don't
Serious question, how far is reasonable to get accessories thrown in on a used car, say £15k, in lieu of a discount?
Mats and flaps?
Towbar?
Roof rack?
Respray of the car?
How far do dealers go?
I'm seriously looking for the first time in several years, and I realise the landscape has changed since finance has become king (and my preference is to pay cash...)
I'm far less confident in a showroom than I was five years ago.
Mats and flaps?
Towbar?
Roof rack?
Respray of the car?
How far do dealers go?
I'm seriously looking for the first time in several years, and I realise the landscape has changed since finance has become king (and my preference is to pay cash...)
I'm far less confident in a showroom than I was five years ago.
Edited by blearyeyedboy on Sunday 9th October 20:55
andymc said:
Klippie said:
HTP99 said:
It is a common misconception that the sale department buy accessories for peanuts, we don't.
Parts and sales departments are run as separate entities for starters, the parts department still make money out of the sales department, sure we will get a level of discount but not a huge one and TBH neither does the parts department; accessories tend to have the lowest margin for items that come out of the parts department.
If I sell a set of mats for the retail price; say £55, there is only about £5-£10 profit margin in them for the sales department.
That's not painting a good picture of dealer mark-up's then is it, £10 profit on £55 I find that obscene, and you're saying that's a low profit margin, so please don't try and justify dealer prices when your telling us they are making nearly 20% on mats...oh the poor dealers.Parts and sales departments are run as separate entities for starters, the parts department still make money out of the sales department, sure we will get a level of discount but not a huge one and TBH neither does the parts department; accessories tend to have the lowest margin for items that come out of the parts department.
If I sell a set of mats for the retail price; say £55, there is only about £5-£10 profit margin in them for the sales department.
At the last service of my car I supplied my own oil the dealer wasn't happy but I insisted...they were going to charge £140 for 8L of oil the very same oil I bought from Costco for £60 and Costco were making money on the sale...greed that's all its is.
I'd most certainly take the job on but check the customer's supplied oil is correct and then put disclaimers all over the service checksheet and invoice stating the customer supplied their own.
itcaptainslow said:
If you're a service manager then you're utterly mad-you'd turn down potentially £100-£150 in labour sales, the main food & drink of a service department, versus profit that probably goes to the parts department on oil? When I was a SM we got the profit on the oil but it was labour hours and labour sales that were the main drivers of bottom line and thus paid my bonus.
I'd most certainly take the job on but check the customer's supplied oil is correct and then put disclaimers all over the service checksheet and invoice stating the customer supplied their own.
Surely it depends. I'd most certainly take the job on but check the customer's supplied oil is correct and then put disclaimers all over the service checksheet and invoice stating the customer supplied their own.
If he has idle labour yes if he has a full book then no. If he has a monopoly he be mad to do so too.
My little brother was whinging at me a long time ago that a company who I use for workwear for my staff didn't phone him back after I had recommended that he tries them, I asked him how many items he was looking to buy he replied 3-5 garments.
I explained their probably that busy dealing with customer placing large order like I do that they don't care for your small order hence why no call back.
if a customer bids me 10% less than what I'm asking for a used car I will openly explain that they are wasting my time.
Why should I sell my £10k car for £9k?
Reality is, we will sell the car to the next person at the asking price - people don't distinguish between service and price, you want cheap go and buy from an auction you want service and a well prepared car? Pay me my price and that's what you will get.
We don't respond to best price emails and texts, we don't give out discounted prices over the phone - and we sell plenty with good repeat business and captive for our workshop for future servicing repairs and tyres.
I explained their probably that busy dealing with customer placing large order like I do that they don't care for your small order hence why no call back.
if a customer bids me 10% less than what I'm asking for a used car I will openly explain that they are wasting my time.
Why should I sell my £10k car for £9k?
Reality is, we will sell the car to the next person at the asking price - people don't distinguish between service and price, you want cheap go and buy from an auction you want service and a well prepared car? Pay me my price and that's what you will get.
We don't respond to best price emails and texts, we don't give out discounted prices over the phone - and we sell plenty with good repeat business and captive for our workshop for future servicing repairs and tyres.
I got £500 off my car which is a Fiesta ST3.
ST2s with similar mileage were priced the same and I've seen other owners say they bought higher mileage cars for more money.
The pictures on the dealers website were 'awaiting approval' so I guess potential customers hadn't bothered calling up.
ST2s with similar mileage were priced the same and I've seen other owners say they bought higher mileage cars for more money.
The pictures on the dealers website were 'awaiting approval' so I guess potential customers hadn't bothered calling up.
Welshbeef said:
Has anyone ever tried haggling st a food super market? Same logic they ring all the food and bits through the till. Then give you the price and you then ask for the discounted price.
Clearly the cashier says no so you say can you get HR manager if they don't move at all you walk away but to them they have a trolley full of stuff which an employee now needs to put back on shelf and that isn't free.
I've never done it but seen some on the Money saving e pert site who have
Making life difficult for an individual on pretty much minimum wage who, even if discounts were possible, isn't even close to the level needed to make the decision to award it, and holding up the punters in the queue behind them while they play their silly game.Clearly the cashier says no so you say can you get HR manager if they don't move at all you walk away but to them they have a trolley full of stuff which an employee now needs to put back on shelf and that isn't free.
I've never done it but seen some on the Money saving e pert site who have
If I saw someone do this, I'd want to give them a slap, quite honestly.
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