Should non-autonomous vehicles be banned from motorways?

[browngt3]

Some of this sounds like turkeys voting for Christmas. You are driving enthusiasts aren't you? So they start with the ban on motorways. Then dual carriageways, then A-roads. What's left for those of us that enjoy the rewards of a fast car? One of my most memorable drives was joining an empty autobahn from Luxembourg into Germany in my 911 and opening her up. So no more Road trips, presumably motorbikes will be banned too? Or will there be autonomous bikes? Maybe even self riding bicycles

[grumbledoak]

browngt3 said:

Some of this sounds like turkeys voting for Christmas. You are driving enthusiasts aren't you? So they start with the ban on motorways. Then dual carriageways, then A-roads. What's left for those of us that enjoy the rewards of a fast car? One of my most memorable drives was joining an empty autobahn from Luxembourg into Germany in my 911 and opening her up. So no more Road trips, presumably motorbikes will be banned too? Or will there be autonomous bikes? Maybe even self riding bicycles

Indeed. The thread title should be "Where can we ban cars next?"

Top lurking, too!

[pwd95]

So what happens if one of them throws a wheel bearing or one of the ECU's goes in to limp mode or someone needs a pee or someone runs out of electric or coolant or fuel........

Dream world stuff boys.

[Blue Oval84]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

If PH is still around in 20 years I'd very much like to bump this thread and see who ends up being right, I doubt it will be the Luddites

[Kawasicki]

i had lunch last week with someone working on pedestrian detection...

there is still a lot of work to be done.

[markeg]

Sorry, thought I was on Pistonheads. Please just shoot me now! I'm certainly not against technology making life easier or safer but we are no where near the point that autonomous cars should be let out onto our roads en masse. If you ban non-autonomous cars from motorways does that mean that the road fund licence for autonomous cars, often electric or hybrid, should be increased to cover all costs associated with motorways, including converting them to 5 lanes etc. to increase their capacity. The road fund licence for non- autonomous cars could then be reduced as they would not be allowed to / have to pay for motorways, (the only up side I can see and highly unlikely to happen.)

[pwd95]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I work in IT support. I can take an engine out of a TVR & put it all back together very neatly & I stand by my foresight. Which one of us will be bumping this thread in 10 yrs time to say I told you so....

[markeg]

A million people die on the roads each year. No one would argue that that is tragic and unnecessary but the vast majority of these are in less developed countries. These are not the countries that will be buying autonomous cars, more likely to stick with mopeds so your argument does not stand.

[dobly]

Cough.....

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/11...

[Kawasicki]

dobly said:

Cough.....

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/11...

excellent....


or should i say...typical PH Luddite!

[heebeegeetee]

markeg said:

Sorry, thought I was on Pistonheads. Please just shoot me now! I'm certainly not against technology making life easier or safer but we are no where near the point that autonomous cars should be let out onto our roads en masse. If you ban non-autonomous cars from motorways does that mean that the road fund licence for autonomous cars, often electric or hybrid, should be increased to cover all costs associated with motorways, including converting them to 5 lanes etc. to increase their capacity. The road fund licence for non- autonomous cars could then be reduced as they would not be allowed to / have to pay for motorways, (the only up side I can see and highly unlikely to happen.)

Indeed you have proved you are on pistonheads by your belief that there is such a thing as a road fund licence.

[JD2329]

The powers that be do not have our interests at heart to the slightest extent.
They will never seek to balance up any equation that suits the average PHer.
If driving manually controlled cars wasn't so enshrined in our culture, it would have been banned already.
Though I'd still rather fight the inevitable demise of freedom than bend over and suggest it to them.

[karlser]

I can't get my head around the idea of autonomous cars .
Why bother, and qui bono ?

To improve saftey and lower emissions, investing in public transport seems the obvious solution to me, why cling to individual transportation and not think further ahead ?
If people are the issue, shouldn't we take the 'individual' part out of the equation ?

As for Apple, Google etc. hyping self driving car tech, all I can think of is the billion bucks user data industry; maybe I'm just a conspiracy nutter, but it might be that noone really tries to develop autonomous cars, but just wants to get their own systems into as many vehicles as possible to mine user data and control its flow.
Wasn't Apple rebuffed by BMW for that very reason ?

While most people already carry connected smartphones or use online navigation, and many cars transmit data, I think there is still a lot of valuable data in individual transportation the big tech companies want to get their hands on .

[grumbledoak]

karlser said:

To improve saftey and lower emissions, investing in public transport seems the obvious solution to me, why cling to individual transportation and not think further ahead ?
If people are the issue, shouldn't we take the 'individual' part out of the equation ?

Because public transport doesn't work, no matter how much money you throw at it.

[98elise]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

So you have an entry level job in IT changing people passwords, and you can assemble a 30 year old motor? So your not exactly an autonomous vehicles or engineering expert!

My first career was in autonomous weapons, and since then I've moved into programming. I think we're about 5 years from what could be described as properly autonomous cars being available to the public. Possibly sooner for non private vehicles. Uber are have a test fleet in the US running now (however they still need a driver ready to take over)

[otolith]

dobly said:

Cough.....

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/11...

Google agrees with him. That's why they believe that partially automated cars which require the driver to take over in some circumstances are not the answer, that they have to get to full automation with no driver controls. Others disagree.

[otolith]

karlser said:

I can't get my head around the idea of autonomous cars .
Why bother, and qui bono ?

To improve saftey and lower emissions, investing in public transport seems the obvious solution to me, why cling to individual transportation and not think further ahead ?

Because people have been banging that drum for decades to no avail. People want private transport. They want convenience, comfort, privacy. Public transport only really works at relatively high population densities, yet even the part of the UK with the highest population density and the best public transport provision is choked with people who would rather drive. From an environmental point of view, running subsidised empty buses round the countryside is not exactly green, but that's what you have to do to provide a good enough service that anyone with a choice uses it.

[98elise]

karlser said:

I can't get my head around the idea of autonomous cars .
Why bother, and qui bono ?

To improve saftey and lower emissions, investing in public transport seems the obvious solution to me, why cling to individual transportation and not think further ahead ?
If people are the issue, shouldn't we take the 'individual' part out of the equation ?

As for Apple, Google etc. hyping self driving car tech, all I can think of is the billion bucks user data industry; maybe I'm just a conspiracy nutter, but it might be that noone really tries to develop autonomous cars, but just wants to get their own systems into as many vehicles as possible to mine user data and control its flow.
Wasn't Apple rebuffed by BMW for that very reason ?

While most people already carry connected smartphones or use online navigation, and many cars transmit data, I think there is still a lot of valuable data in individual transportation the big tech companies want to get their hands on .

As an example as to why they work, I have a 130 mile round trip commute. That's 1.2-2 hours each way mostly on the motorway. There is no need for me to be actually driving. The majority of days there are delays because of accidents.

Yes I could take the train however its actually a drive to the station, 1 train into London, walk or tube to another station, 2nd train, then a walk to work. Two hours minimum and double the cost (and I still need to run a car)

Autonomous cars would mean I could do something else on the commute, and likely to be much quicker.

[cidered77]

98elise said:

karlser said:

I can't get my head around the idea of autonomous cars .
Why bother, and qui bono ?

To improve saftey and lower emissions, investing in public transport seems the obvious solution to me, why cling to individual transportation and not think further ahead ?
If people are the issue, shouldn't we take the 'individual' part out of the equation ?

As for Apple, Google etc. hyping self driving car tech, all I can think of is the billion bucks user data industry; maybe I'm just a conspiracy nutter, but it might be that noone really tries to develop autonomous cars, but just wants to get their own systems into as many vehicles as possible to mine user data and control its flow.
Wasn't Apple rebuffed by BMW for that very reason ?

While most people already carry connected smartphones or use online navigation, and many cars transmit data, I think there is still a lot of valuable data in individual transportation the big tech companies want to get their hands on .

As an example as to why they work, I have a 130 mile round trip commute. That's 1.2-2 hours each way mostly on the motorway. There is no need for me to be actually driving. The majority of days there are delays because of accidents.

Yes I could take the train however its actually a drive to the station, 1 train into London, walk or tube to another station, 2nd train, then a walk to work. Two hours minimum and double the cost (and I still need to run a car)

Autonomous cars would mean I could do something else on the commute, and likely to be much quicker.

^^ this is bang on. For motorway driving initially, makes total and complete sense. Initially autonomous-only lane, then 2 lanes, then all lanes, etc. There is no driving pleasure in commuting, those of us who love driving can still do that, must don't confuse driving pleasure with "transport".

And there is no conspiracy theory as to why it's google and the "new tech" firms pushing this. Google have a lot of cash, and an ability to attract a lot of investment - but they drive their money essentially for people being online for longer. A long time ago they looked at the developed world, asked "how do we get more people online more of the time", and as working out how to stop people sleeping isn't really possible.. the next biggest area of opportunity is the many hours per day people spend driving. Autonomous cars means a lot people would spend their time online...... is what it is, and it's clearly both progress, and inevitable.

[Jim AK]

grumbledoak said:

karlser said:

To improve saftey and lower emissions, investing in public transport seems the obvious solution to me, why cling to individual transportation and not think further ahead ?
If people are the issue, shouldn't we take the 'individual' part out of the equation ?

Because public transport doesn't work, no matter how much money you throw at it.

This. & removing people's spontaneous descision to do something that's not in their locality.

If I get up & it's a nice day & I fancy going to the coast, it takes 3 hours by train for me, longer if I use South East Trains. I can get to Brighton in under 2 hours by car.

The more I think about this, motorways are the last place I think we need this,, towns & cities are much more dangerous, polluted & congested.

I've been driving a lot in London this month & my average speed has been indicated @ 9 MPH.

Motorways are way better than that!