Is there such a thing as a desirable diesel?
Discussion
Ares said:
Nanook said:
Ares said:
No - just the love of revs. Turbo Petrol cars have a similar lack of revs/greater flexibility (and thus better IMO), but they would thus would turn off the rev hungry 'proper' driver. My comment was purely on the need for high revs if you want to drive 'properly'.
My old buckethead Impreza STI would rev to 8000. No issue with lack of revs there.So lets amend it to most modern/current turbo petrol cars (we were taking about the 335i - c100bhp/litre, not the Subaru which was 150+bhp/litre....and became more peaky because of it)
There are several reasons I prefer diesels over petrol, the last is a wierd one but I can justify it.
1. I'm lazy, not only do I like autos I like cars that produce a lot of torque low down and I cba to rev cars anymore. Diesels are well suited.
2. I like the exhaust note you get from 3.0 tdi's.
3. When I buy a petrol car I spend lots of money trying to perfect the exhaust note, end up with something droney, spend more money blah blah. On a diesel this is pointless, so I don't. And that saves me a lot of money.
I would really desire a 640d Coupe.
1. I'm lazy, not only do I like autos I like cars that produce a lot of torque low down and I cba to rev cars anymore. Diesels are well suited.
2. I like the exhaust note you get from 3.0 tdi's.
3. When I buy a petrol car I spend lots of money trying to perfect the exhaust note, end up with something droney, spend more money blah blah. On a diesel this is pointless, so I don't. And that saves me a lot of money.
I would really desire a 640d Coupe.
Fastdruid said:
Ares said:
Nanook said:
Ares said:
No - just the love of revs. Turbo Petrol cars have a similar lack of revs/greater flexibility (and thus better IMO), but they would thus would turn off the rev hungry 'proper' driver. My comment was purely on the need for high revs if you want to drive 'properly'.
My old buckethead Impreza STI would rev to 8000. No issue with lack of revs there.So lets amend it to most modern/current turbo petrol cars (we were taking about the 335i - c100bhp/litre, not the Subaru which was 150+bhp/litre....and became more peaky because of it)
KevinCamaroSS said:
Nanook said:
I enjoy driving my car every day. For me, driving a car is fun.
Maybe you live in an area that has quiet roads. In my area there is so much traffic it is more of a chore than a pleasure.I enjoy driving my car every single day on it, all due to the buttery smoothness of the 6-cyl petrol engine.
twoblacklines said:
There are several reasons I prefer diesels over petrol, the last is a wierd one but I can justify it.
1. I'm lazy, not only do I like autos I like cars that produce a lot of torque low down and I cba to rev cars anymore. Diesels are well suited.
2. I like the exhaust note you get from 3.0 tdi's.
3. When I buy a petrol car I spend lots of money trying to perfect the exhaust note, end up with something droney, spend more money blah blah. On a diesel this is pointless, so I don't. And that saves me a lot of money.
I would really desire a 640d Coupe.
1: So you mean you like turbocharged cars?1. I'm lazy, not only do I like autos I like cars that produce a lot of torque low down and I cba to rev cars anymore. Diesels are well suited.
2. I like the exhaust note you get from 3.0 tdi's.
3. When I buy a petrol car I spend lots of money trying to perfect the exhaust note, end up with something droney, spend more money blah blah. On a diesel this is pointless, so I don't. And that saves me a lot of money.
I would really desire a 640d Coupe.
2: Really???
3: Errm...don't.
Having a preference for a diesel or petrol powered car must surely be based on the specific requirements (desires) of the individual driver.
My diesel car does what my petrol cars cannot do, and my petrol cars do what the diesel car cannot do. so I use the one which best suits the type of journey I want to make.
As posted before where a person can only have one car for all the journeys they have to make, the choice of car/fuel type becomes more complex, because they have to choose a car type which best suits what the majority of their driving / journies requires, and compromise for the remaining types of journey they have to make.
My diesel car does what my petrol cars cannot do, and my petrol cars do what the diesel car cannot do. so I use the one which best suits the type of journey I want to make.
As posted before where a person can only have one car for all the journeys they have to make, the choice of car/fuel type becomes more complex, because they have to choose a car type which best suits what the majority of their driving / journies requires, and compromise for the remaining types of journey they have to make.
DonkeyApple said:
What's not to like? It's got a Diesel engine. Plenty of BMWs with nice sounding and feeling petrol engines that have equal performance.
Trouble is, it doesn't tell the whole story. Yep, performance is on a par but emotional attachment isn't. You just can't get emotionally attached to a diesel in the same way that you can with a howling performance petrol engine and I say that as the owner of a 335d.Osinjak said:
DonkeyApple said:
What's not to like? It's got a Diesel engine. Plenty of BMWs with nice sounding and feeling petrol engines that have equal performance.
Trouble is, it doesn't tell the whole story. Yep, performance is on a par but emotional attachment isn't. You just can't get emotionally attached to a diesel in the same way that you can with a howling performance petrol engine and I say that as the owner of a 335d.Nanook said:
Ares said:
Nanook said:
I don't think he was claiming it was? He said as much in his post?
Yes he was Ares said:
You've just proved my point. Your petrol engine only revs to 6500. Not in a million years is that 'high-revv'ing!
Fastdruid said:
Nope. My Turbo petrol makes peak torque from 1.5k....only it then goes up to 4.5k before it starts to drop. Although mine isn't that revvy truth be told, it only goes up to 6.5.
Osinjak said:
DonkeyApple said:
What's not to like? It's got a Diesel engine. Plenty of BMWs with nice sounding and feeling petrol engines that have equal performance.
Trouble is, it doesn't tell the whole story. Yep, performance is on a par but emotional attachment isn't. You just can't get emotionally attached to a diesel in the same way that you can with a howling performance petrol engine and I say that as the owner of a 335d.Maybe, just maybe, a screaming Italian V12 might get a pulse racing and be deemed as taking a step towards emotional attachment, but nothing that truly competes with a 3l diesel does, unless a romantic evening includes dinner for one and a box of tissues.
gizlaroc said:
I have two Merc estates, one is the petrol E350 and the other the diesel C320cdi.
I always think when driving the C320cdi why would I need any thing else? It is quick, it is effortless, it is always in the right 'rev range' and it is a joy to cover ground in.
I then get back into the E350 petrol and I will be honest, at first even I think "hmm, it feels nice and refined but the diesel is still very good" and then you get a point where you over take, or hit some back roads and the petrol just starts to make more sense.
If you don't get it, you don't get it. But after a week in the diesel week before last and then spending last week in the petrol I have put the diesel up for sale. It is great, just not as good as the petrol. I want to go on journeys for the sake of it with the petrol, the diesel I enjoy when I am in it, but I don't want to take it out for a quick blast just for the sake of it, and that is the difference.
I think you would probably come to the same conclusion if you compared the 350CDi to the 320CDi. The later diesel is a much more refined engine. I always think when driving the C320cdi why would I need any thing else? It is quick, it is effortless, it is always in the right 'rev range' and it is a joy to cover ground in.
I then get back into the E350 petrol and I will be honest, at first even I think "hmm, it feels nice and refined but the diesel is still very good" and then you get a point where you over take, or hit some back roads and the petrol just starts to make more sense.
If you don't get it, you don't get it. But after a week in the diesel week before last and then spending last week in the petrol I have put the diesel up for sale. It is great, just not as good as the petrol. I want to go on journeys for the sake of it with the petrol, the diesel I enjoy when I am in it, but I don't want to take it out for a quick blast just for the sake of it, and that is the difference.
A better comparison would be the 350 petrol versus the 350 diesel. Not saying you wouldn't reach the same conclusion though
Palmers said:
The V8 tdi in my old A8 made sense.
Buttery smooth, so quiet (only 1 silencer from factory) and an unnatural surge of torque once mapped.
It made a 2 tonne car intoxicating. And at 26-28 average (max 45.2 on a long run) its better than the 15 the 4.2 petrol gets.
It's only when you've driven one you get how diesels can be utterly sublime Buttery smooth, so quiet (only 1 silencer from factory) and an unnatural surge of torque once mapped.
It made a 2 tonne car intoxicating. And at 26-28 average (max 45.2 on a long run) its better than the 15 the 4.2 petrol gets.
What I like about a decent diesel lump is where in the rev range the power is produced.
I.e. most of the power is produced where I spend most of the rev range, as opposed to my previous car, TT V6, of which it sounded great, but you have to really rev it to get it going, whereas my 640d `feels` quicker because the power is so much more accessible.
I.e. most of the power is produced where I spend most of the rev range, as opposed to my previous car, TT V6, of which it sounded great, but you have to really rev it to get it going, whereas my 640d `feels` quicker because the power is so much more accessible.
Ares said:
Nanook said:
Ares said:
Nanook said:
I don't think he was claiming it was? He said as much in his post?
Yes he was Ares said:
You've just proved my point. Your petrol engine only revs to 6500. Not in a million years is that 'high-revv'ing!
Fastdruid said:
Nope. My Turbo petrol makes peak torque from 1.5k....only it then goes up to 4.5k before it starts to drop. Although mine isn't that revvy truth be told, it only goes up to 6.5.
T16OLE said:
What I like about a decent diesel lump is where in the rev range the power is produced.
I.e. most of the power is produced where I spend most of the rev range, as opposed to my previous car, TT V6, of which it sounded great, but you have to really rev it to get it going, whereas my 640d `feels` quicker because the power is so much more accessible.
You are describing liking a turbocharged power delivery rather than a diesel power delivery.I.e. most of the power is produced where I spend most of the rev range, as opposed to my previous car, TT V6, of which it sounded great, but you have to really rev it to get it going, whereas my 640d `feels` quicker because the power is so much more accessible.
Ares said:
Osinjak said:
DonkeyApple said:
What's not to like? It's got a Diesel engine. Plenty of BMWs with nice sounding and feeling petrol engines that have equal performance.
Trouble is, it doesn't tell the whole story. Yep, performance is on a par but emotional attachment isn't. You just can't get emotionally attached to a diesel in the same way that you can with a howling performance petrol engine and I say that as the owner of a 335d.Maybe, just maybe, a screaming Italian V12 might get a pulse racing and be deemed as taking a step towards emotional attachment, but nothing that truly competes with a 3l diesel does, unless a romantic evening includes dinner for one and a box of tissues.
Ahbefive said:
You are describing liking a turbocharged power delivery rather than a diesel power delivery.
Well I went from an 8P1 A3 2.0 tdi dsg so 140hp tdi, to a 8p2 a3 1.8t FSI S-Tronic, so a 160hp petrol turbo, other than that it was the same car, same weight, same gearbox, and the TFSI felt slow in comparison even though it had more power. Which makes sense because it had about 60lbft less than the diesel and at a higher rev point.So no, we are describing diesel power delivery.
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