Is there such a thing as a desirable diesel?

[gizlaroc]

heebeegeetee said:

I like those BMWs. The 335d estate car will do 0-100 in a bloody short time and cad do a long range on fuel. Petrol cars can't do this and never could. Petrol cars haven't really changed the motoring landscape at all but diesels have imo.

There are virtually no short-comings to the 330d/335d as far as I am concerned apart from initial cost, but that's just my opinion. There are no/few tangible differences between the pet and derv models except that you will stop for fuel more often with the petrol, and that's it.

I had a 335d Sport Touring for a week back in 2007, it was a 56 plate car, and it was replacing my S4 Avant (which I genuinely hated).
I used to get 32-34mpg, it would do 42mpg on a run, but by the end of the tank it was back to 32-34mpg, or 450 miles.
This seemed to match what all the guys on e90post were getting too, I used BMWs 30 day exchange programme and swapped it for a 335i Sport Touring they had.
That car averaged 29mpg and would do 38mpg on a run, or 390 miles to a tank.

Overall it was just a much nicer ownership experience, everything about it felt special in a way the diesel didn't. It was seriously refined, it revved well enough, sounded really nice, felt lighter and handled so much better and braked properly and was quicker.

My wife also had a 320d E91 sport touring too, it was also an auto and that used to average 39mpg calculated (OBC used to read 47mpg though) over 18 months and 40k miles, and would get 550 miles per tank every time. You could see 55mpg on a run. That sort of makes more sense, although I bet a 330d would be pretty close.


I liked the 335d, and would have another one, just that I much preferred the 335i and for me the running costs between petrol and diesel were a complete non issue. It was around 1-2% less than the diesel when I actually sat down and worked it out properly, which I don't think many people do, in fact I often don't, I look at official figures and think, the diesel will save me 25%, the reality is often very different to that.

[anonymous-user]

Wills2 said:

heebeegeetee said:

Wills2 said:

As I said Lee on paper stats, the way it does those things are utterly uninspiring (in my opinion of course, others may hold differing views, your mileage my vary etc....)

I like those BMWs. The 335d estate car will do 0-100 in a bloody short time and cad do a long range on fuel. Petrol cars can't do this and never could. Petrol cars haven't really changed the motoring landscape at all but diesels have imo.

There are virtually no short-comings to the 330d/335d as far as I am concerned apart from initial cost, but that's just my opinion. There are no/few tangible differences between the pet and derv models except that you will stop for fuel more often with the petrol, and that's it.

And that's the thing, I think the total opposite to you. I found it utterly boring, mundane, not that economical or that quick over 60mph coupled with a floaty/wallowy suspension matched only by the numb brakes gave a very undesirable but quite expensive car.

But ETTO!

Did you get a large, comfortable, 5 seat estate car mixed up with an Elise again? No wonder you were disappointed........

[Ares]

CrgT16 said:

Apart from a big SUV or a big barge I don't have any desire to drive a diesel. In the case of the 640d, 3.0 BiTDI, etc on medium sized cars I just don't see the benefit, unless you do mega miles. If you do 10-15k a year why would you consider one? If you can afford an expensive car like that why can't you afford to have a petrol one, in the total costs of those cars the petrol choice won't be too much more onerous to run fuel wise.

For example if you do 15k a year and drive a powerful diesel and say you average 50mpg, if you do the same 15k on a petrol that averages 30mpg the petrol will cost you only an extra 100 quid a month extra in fuel. Now if you drive a 60-70k car and can't afford an extra 100 quid a month that is odd.

The real question is all costs equal, would you still prefer to drive a diesel?

What about if you realise the diesel of some cars is just better than the petrol. I bought the 640d after driving it back to back with the 640i. I was better in everyday except the i sounded better....but as you can't really hear the engine for 95% of the time, its a non issue.

So yes, all costs being equal, sometimes you do prefer the diesel (unless you are stubbornly discounting fuel without real reason....)

[Ares]

gizlaroc said:

There is only one reason to buy diesel, that is to save money.

You can argue all you like, but that is why diesels are offered.

You can argue all you like, but you are still still wrong.

gizlaroc said:

Don't care what people say, we all buy diesels to save money.

Still wrong.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Ares said:

gizlaroc said:

There is only one reason to buy diesel, that is to save money.

You can argue all you like, but that is why diesels are offered.

You can argue all you like, but you are still still wrong.

gizlaroc said:

Don't care what people say, we all buy diesels to save money.

Still wrong.

The poor people are those who can only afford one car, which has to be a jack of all trades car. Meanwhile those who can select a vehicle type which best suits a specific type of journey they want to make, do so, hence the use of diesels by some

[Ares]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Ares said:

gizlaroc said:

There is only one reason to buy diesel, that is to save money.

You can argue all you like, but that is why diesels are offered.

You can argue all you like, but you are still still wrong.

gizlaroc said:

Don't care what people say, we all buy diesels to save money.

Still wrong.

The poor people are those who can only afford one car, which has to be a jack of all trades car. Meanwhile those who can select a vehicle type which best suits a specific type of journey they want to make, do so, hence the use of diesels by some

Yeah....expect I've done the 2 (and 3) car thing, and it doesn't work.

For 95% of the time you end up with st car to run about in. Then for the 5%, you have an amazing fun car.

I ran a Bike-Engined Caterham. It was amazing. I raced it, tracked it and took it out for the hell of it. It did 5,000 miles in 4 years. Meanwhile, but heavily compromised cars did over 100,000 miles. I changed it for a car that was nice to be in all the time.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Ares said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Ares said:

gizlaroc said:

There is only one reason to buy diesel, that is to save money.

You can argue all you like, but that is why diesels are offered.

You can argue all you like, but you are still still wrong.

gizlaroc said:

Don't care what people say, we all buy diesels to save money.

Still wrong.

The poor people are those who can only afford one car, which has to be a jack of all trades car. Meanwhile those who can select a vehicle type which best suits a specific type of journey they want to make, do so, hence the use of diesels by some

Yeah....expect I've done the 2 (and 3) car thing, and it doesn't work.

For 95% of the time you end up with st car to run about in. Then for the 5%, you have an amazing fun car.

I ran a Bike-Engined Caterham. It was amazing. I raced it, tracked it and took it out for the hell of it. It did 5,000 miles in 4 years. Meanwhile, but heavily compromised cars did over 100,000 miles. I changed it for a car that was nice to be in all the time.

I have to make quite a number of heavy load journeys into Europe each year and have done so in both petrol and diesel cars, with the petrol car being a big capacity V8, and the diesel a turbocharged 2 litre four, and the petrol car was a complete pain in the butt, Having five adults and their luggage aboard nearly completely f*cked the performance and handling of the car, and I had to stop at almost every other service station and queue for fuel in often rammed service stations, because with the car full, the acceleration, cornering and fuel consumption was badly affected. Given that we have things called speed limits on motorways, trips in the diesel were hardly any longer than when in the petrol car, and given that I could cruise at the motorway limit with the engine barely above idling rpm, going past service station after, service station without having to stop for fuel, I have made several thousand mile trips into Europe without having to stop once for fuel. Show me a petrol car that can do that.

[Ares]

Pan Pan Pan said:

I have to make quite a number of heavy load journeys into Europe each year and have done so in both petrol and diesel cars, with the petrol car being a big capacity V8, and the diesel a turbocharged 2 litre four, and the petrol car was a complete pain in the butt, Having five adults and their luggage aboard nearly completely f*cked the performance and handling of the car, and I had to stop at almost every other service station and queue for fuel in often rammed service stations, because with the car full, the acceleration, cornering and fuel consumption was badly affected. Given that we have things called speed limits on motorways, trips in the diesel were hardly any longer than when in the petrol car, and given that I could cruise at the motorway limit with the engine barely above idling rpm, going past service station after, service station without having to stop for fuel, I have made several thousand mile trips into Europe without having to stop once for fuel. Show me a petrol car that can do that.

Exactly. But half of pistonheads will still tell you you're wrong and that a petrol would be just as good.

[DonkeyApple]

Ares said:

Exactly. But half of pistonheads will still tell you you're wrong and that a petrol would be just as good.

Although, it's not all that logical to compromise for 360 days just for those 5. Like buying a 4x4 on the grounds that it might snow one year.

It would a lot more logical to hire the economy transport product as and when required than actually buy one and have to live with it all year round?

[Ares]

DonkeyApple said:

Ares said:

Exactly. But half of pistonheads will still tell you you're wrong and that a petrol would be just as good.

Although, it's not all that logical to compromise for 360 days just for those 5. Like buying a 4x4 on the grounds that it might snow one year.

It would a lot more logical to hire the economy transport product as and when required than actually buy one and have to live with it all year round?

Which is exactly my point about having a crappy everyday car and a pure fun-car int eh garage (see my Caterham experience above!)

[DonkeyApple]

Ares said:

Which is exactly my point about having a crappy everyday car and a pure fun-car int eh garage (see my Caterham experience above!)

Sure but that's still all about running to a budget. I'd prefer to have two disparate but pure enjoyment cars and then rent a utility transport on the few occasions that it's needed, just like I'd rent a van when I needed one rather than spend all year driving one around because it might be useful a few days of the year.

You can get those types of utility vehicles just delivered to your door whenever you really need one and then a bloke will come and take it away when you've finished with it. It strikes me as far more logical.

[Ares]

DonkeyApple said:

Ares said:

Which is exactly my point about having a crappy everyday car and a pure fun-car int eh garage (see my Caterham experience above!)

Sure but that's still all about running to a budget. I'd prefer to have two disparate but pure enjoyment cars and then rent a utility transport on the few occasions that it's needed, just like I'd rent a van when I needed one rather than spend all year driving one around because it might be useful a few days of the year.

You can get those types of utility vehicles just delivered to your door whenever you really need one and then a bloke will come and take it away when you've finished with it. It strikes me as far more logical.

No more than having a car perfect for the Family/Commute and hiring a truly fun car for when you can get out for no reason. As I found out, you have 95% of dull driving compared to 5% of fun typically. Makes sense to buy the best you can for the 95% and hire the 5% - whether the 5% is a track car or a 7.5 tonne truck.

[Ahbefive]

WinstonWolf said:

Ahbefive said:

WinstonWolf said:

So it would seem. I tried the S8 first but for a daily driver I preferred the lazy A.

It's got a "comfort" setting on the suspension FFS

Did the S8 have a turbo? Comfort setting has nothing to do with the diesel engine.

I prefer the power delivery of the diesel. Not everyone will but some of us do.

I only got drawn in when someone said everyone bought diesels to save money. Running costs didn't feature in my decision making process...

I suspect that you actually prefer the power delivery of a turbocharged engine vs a N/a one rather than a diesel over petrol. Unless somehow you prefer a turbodiesel over a turbo petrol in which case I'd love to know why.

[Selmer Mk6]

Is there such a thing as a desirable diesel? It appears that the definition from most of the post here here is fuel economy=desirability. Torque would not be an issue on long motorway journeys. The torque will be of benefit driving around town, but if that is where you do most of your driving, is a diesel cost effective.

I like to rev my car now and again and love the sound. Therefore, for me a car can be desirable, but not with a diesel engine in it.

[Saabaholic]

Like some on here i have to drive for a living. Approx 700 miles per week.
I was using my own Saab for this. But at 360bhp, its not the best on fuel and its really getting on now.
Plus i just couldnt make the milage pay for what i was actually using on fuel.

So i had to think about getting a car that uses the Devils Fuel.
I tried a fair few of the normal fleet type cars. A3, Focus, Mondeo, Some of the new small Volvo's. But none of their Diesel ranges were "Desirable". I mean would i really want to be sat in this car driving it for 5+ hrs per day i kept thinking to myself.

For me Desirable Diesel meant something that i would actually want to be sat in every day for a long time. Good on fuel (which they all generally are now). Be within the HMRC's recomended milage rate of 13p a mile for a 2+ Litre. And to be availible on a lease within the bounds of my company car allowance. And with no deposit.
For me the Desirable bit meant geting a Diesel on a PCP and try to beat the rip off that is a Company Car scheme + Company car tax.
A big ask you might think.....


Well i found my Desirable Diesel.
Its a Mercedes A Class A200d AMG Line. In Premium Plus form, with Night Pack, AMG Dynamic Suspension, and DCT transmission.
Some bargain deals if you shop around the dealerships and press them hard. Which i did.
Got a PCP, for £360 a month. 30k Milage allowance, no deposit. And unlimited servicing for 3 years.
Desirable in that it ticks all the boxes for a high milage hack, with comfort, lots of toys. Is pretty darn fast for a 2.1 deisel, and the DCT transmission with 100ms gearchanges is a hoot.

So this is the Desirable Diesel that works for me. Stil makes a Orrible noise, but other than that it is nice. And does 68mpg average daily. My best being 80.2mpg in one day.

[Pit Pony]

white_goodman said:

Are there any diesel cars that you actually desire to own or is a desirable diesel an oxymoron?

If petrol cost 20p a gallon, we'd all drive V8's with at least 5 litres. The only reason for the technology on diesels is to try to make a boat engine, half decent.

[gizlaroc]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Ares said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Ares said:

gizlaroc said:

There is only one reason to buy diesel, that is to save money.

You can argue all you like, but that is why diesels are offered.

You can argue all you like, but you are still still wrong.

gizlaroc said:

Don't care what people say, we all buy diesels to save money.

Still wrong.

The poor people are those who can only afford one car, which has to be a jack of all trades car. Meanwhile those who can select a vehicle type which best suits a specific type of journey they want to make, do so, hence the use of diesels by some

Yeah....expect I've done the 2 (and 3) car thing, and it doesn't work.

For 95% of the time you end up with st car to run about in. Then for the 5%, you have an amazing fun car.

I ran a Bike-Engined Caterham. It was amazing. I raced it, tracked it and took it out for the hell of it. It did 5,000 miles in 4 years. Meanwhile, but heavily compromised cars did over 100,000 miles. I changed it for a car that was nice to be in all the time.

I have to make quite a number of heavy load journeys into Europe each year and have done so in both petrol and diesel cars, with the petrol car being a big capacity V8, and the diesel a turbocharged 2 litre four, and the petrol car was a complete pain in the butt,


Having five adults and their luggage aboard nearly completely f*cked the performance and handling of the car, and I had to stop at almost every other service station and queue for fuel in often rammed service stations, because with the car full, the acceleration, cornering and fuel consumption was badly affected.

Given that we have things called speed limits on motorways, trips in the diesel were hardly any longer than when in the petrol car, and given that I could cruise at the motorway limit with the engine barely above idling rpm, going past service station after, service station without having to stop for fuel, I have made several thousand mile trips into Europe without having to stop once for fuel. Show me a petrol car that can do that.

So we really aren't comparing apples with apples again are we?

We are comparing a large V8 NA petrol with a turbo'd 4 pot derv.


I did Norwich, to Milan, then Milan to St. Tropez, St. Tropez to Poitiers, back to Norwich, It was around 2500 miles and I did it in a V8 S4. It was horrible, 21 mpg average, stopping to fill up every 250 miles, so every 3 hours. Nightmare.


I did the same trip the following year in the 335i an it was a complete joy, we averaged 37mpg and at 80mph it was cruising at just under 2000rpm, which in a petrol means complete silence.

It was also great in the 535d, but the 335i is just like a more refined version of the diesel, a little bit nicer all round.

And that is one thing that I still can't get over in my 2012 E350 petrol estate, at 80mph there is no diesel drone. I didn't even realise it was there when I had the E350cdi, but get into the petrol and you can't underestimate just how much more relaxing it is.



Ares, what diesel is it you chose?

[Fastdruid]

Nanook said:

Pit Pony said:

If petrol cost 20p a gallon, we'd all drive V8's with at least 5 litres. The only reason for the technology on diesels is to try to make a boat engine, half decent.

And if diesel cost 20p a gallon, we'd all drive diesel engined cars.

I wouldn't.

[DonkeyApple]

Nanook said:

Pit Pony said:

If petrol cost 20p a gallon, we'd all drive V8's with at least 5 litres. The only reason for the technology on diesels is to try to make a boat engine, half decent.

And if diesel cost 20p a gallon, we'd all drive diesel engined cars.

Errrrrrrr? No. A good fillet is worth the extra cost over a cow's anus regardless of what delicious sauce they serve it with.

If big displacement petrol engines weren't so good then the industry wouldn't be spending billions trying to make tax incentives 4 pots and diesels sound and act like them. They are the beef flavoured vegetarian sausage of the automotive world. Risible.

But sadly, as we've seen with diesel and other taxation efforts the will of the people will always follow where the tax man leads them.

[Steve Campbell]

Alpina D3 Biturbo Touring..............