Is there such a thing as a desirable diesel?

Is there such a thing as a desirable diesel?

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Fastdruid

8,623 posts

151 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
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Ares said:
Nanook said:
Ares said:
No - just the love of revs. Turbo Petrol cars have a similar lack of revs/greater flexibility (and thus better IMO), but they would thus would turn off the rev hungry 'proper' driver. My comment was purely on the need for high revs if you want to drive 'properly'.
My old buckethead Impreza STI would rev to 8000. No issue with lack of revs there.
Mine too. wink

So lets amend it to most modern/current turbo petrol cars (we were taking about the 335i - c100bhp/litre, not the Subaru which was 150+bhp/litre....and became more peaky because of it)
Nope. My Turbo petrol makes peak torque from 1.5k....only it then goes up to 4.5k before it starts to drop. Although mine isn't that revvy truth be told, it only goes up to 6.5.



KevinCamaroSS

11,555 posts

279 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
Maybe you live in an area that has quiet roads. In my area there is so much traffic it is more of a chore than a pleasure.

twoblacklines

1,575 posts

160 months

Sunday 23rd October 2016
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There are several reasons I prefer diesels over petrol, the last is a wierd one but I can justify it.

1. I'm lazy, not only do I like autos I like cars that produce a lot of torque low down and I cba to rev cars anymore. Diesels are well suited.
2. I like the exhaust note you get from 3.0 tdi's.
3. When I buy a petrol car I spend lots of money trying to perfect the exhaust note, end up with something droney, spend more money blah blah. On a diesel this is pointless, so I don't. And that saves me a lot of money.

I would really desire a 640d Coupe.

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 23rd October 2016
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Fastdruid said:
Nope. My Turbo petrol makes peak torque from 1.5k
It might do on a test bed at steady state, but it sure as s**t don't do that in the actual car, unless you are in top gear (and probably not even then.....)



Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
Fastdruid said:
Ares said:
Nanook said:
Ares said:
No - just the love of revs. Turbo Petrol cars have a similar lack of revs/greater flexibility (and thus better IMO), but they would thus would turn off the rev hungry 'proper' driver. My comment was purely on the need for high revs if you want to drive 'properly'.
My old buckethead Impreza STI would rev to 8000. No issue with lack of revs there.
Mine too. wink

So lets amend it to most modern/current turbo petrol cars (we were taking about the 335i - c100bhp/litre, not the Subaru which was 150+bhp/litre....and became more peaky because of it)
Nope. My Turbo petrol makes peak torque from 1.5k....only it then goes up to 4.5k before it starts to drop. Although mine isn't that revvy truth be told, it only goes up to 6.5.

You've just proved my point. Your petrol engine only revs to 6500. Not in a million years is that 'high-revv'ing!

Equilibrium25

653 posts

133 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
KevinCamaroSS said:
Nanook said:
I enjoy driving my car every day. For me, driving a car is fun.
Maybe you live in an area that has quiet roads. In my area there is so much traffic it is more of a chore than a pleasure.
My commute typically averages 15-20mph over it's six miles and involves lots of traffic lights (of which, I will almost never be at the front and able to use any power).

I enjoy driving my car every single day on it, all due to the buttery smoothness of the 6-cyl petrol engine.



Ahbefive

11,657 posts

171 months

Monday 24th October 2016
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twoblacklines said:
There are several reasons I prefer diesels over petrol, the last is a wierd one but I can justify it.

1. I'm lazy, not only do I like autos I like cars that produce a lot of torque low down and I cba to rev cars anymore. Diesels are well suited.
2. I like the exhaust note you get from 3.0 tdi's.
3. When I buy a petrol car I spend lots of money trying to perfect the exhaust note, end up with something droney, spend more money blah blah. On a diesel this is pointless, so I don't. And that saves me a lot of money.

I would really desire a 640d Coupe.
1: So you mean you like turbocharged cars?
2: Really???
3: Errm...don't.

Pan Pan Pan

9,777 posts

110 months

Monday 24th October 2016
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Having a preference for a diesel or petrol powered car must surely be based on the specific requirements (desires) of the individual driver.
My diesel car does what my petrol cars cannot do, and my petrol cars do what the diesel car cannot do. so I use the one which best suits the type of journey I want to make.
As posted before where a person can only have one car for all the journeys they have to make, the choice of car/fuel type becomes more complex, because they have to choose a car type which best suits what the majority of their driving / journies requires, and compromise for the remaining types of journey they have to make.

Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
Yes he was confused


Osinjak

5,453 posts

120 months

Monday 24th October 2016
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DonkeyApple said:
What's not to like? It's got a Diesel engine. Plenty of BMWs with nice sounding and feeling petrol engines that have equal performance.
Trouble is, it doesn't tell the whole story. Yep, performance is on a par but emotional attachment isn't. You just can't get emotionally attached to a diesel in the same way that you can with a howling performance petrol engine and I say that as the owner of a 335d.

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Monday 24th October 2016
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Osinjak said:
DonkeyApple said:
What's not to like? It's got a Diesel engine. Plenty of BMWs with nice sounding and feeling petrol engines that have equal performance.
Trouble is, it doesn't tell the whole story. Yep, performance is on a par but emotional attachment isn't. You just can't get emotionally attached to a diesel in the same way that you can with a howling performance petrol engine and I say that as the owner of a 335d.
It's probably the way that I wrote my remark but I wasn't defending Diesel in any way.

Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
Nanook said:
Ares said:
Nanook said:
I don't think he was claiming it was? He said as much in his post?
Yes he was confused
Ares said:
You've just proved my point. Your petrol engine only revs to 6500. Not in a million years is that 'high-revv'ing!
Fastdruid said:
Nope. My Turbo petrol makes peak torque from 1.5k....only it then goes up to 4.5k before it starts to drop. Although mine isn't that revvy truth be told, it only goes up to 6.5.
Yes, so he proved my point. Most modern turbo petrol engines are not high revving. His 'nope' was misplaced.

Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
Osinjak said:
DonkeyApple said:
What's not to like? It's got a Diesel engine. Plenty of BMWs with nice sounding and feeling petrol engines that have equal performance.
Trouble is, it doesn't tell the whole story. Yep, performance is on a par but emotional attachment isn't. You just can't get emotionally attached to a diesel in the same way that you can with a howling performance petrol engine and I say that as the owner of a 335d.
If you get emotionally attached to any engine, then you need a girlfriend (or boyfriend, I'm not here to judge).

Maybe, just maybe, a screaming Italian V12 might get a pulse racing and be deemed as taking a step towards emotional attachment, but nothing that truly competes with a 3l diesel does, unless a romantic evening includes dinner for one and a box of tissues.

Monkeylegend

26,226 posts

230 months

Monday 24th October 2016
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gizlaroc said:
I have two Merc estates, one is the petrol E350 and the other the diesel C320cdi.

I always think when driving the C320cdi why would I need any thing else? It is quick, it is effortless, it is always in the right 'rev range' and it is a joy to cover ground in.

I then get back into the E350 petrol and I will be honest, at first even I think "hmm, it feels nice and refined but the diesel is still very good" and then you get a point where you over take, or hit some back roads and the petrol just starts to make more sense.


If you don't get it, you don't get it. But after a week in the diesel week before last and then spending last week in the petrol I have put the diesel up for sale. It is great, just not as good as the petrol. I want to go on journeys for the sake of it with the petrol, the diesel I enjoy when I am in it, but I don't want to take it out for a quick blast just for the sake of it, and that is the difference.
I think you would probably come to the same conclusion if you compared the 350CDi to the 320CDi. The later diesel is a much more refined engine.

A better comparison would be the 350 petrol versus the 350 diesel. Not saying you wouldn't reach the same conclusion though wink

WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

238 months

Monday 24th October 2016
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Palmers said:
The V8 tdi in my old A8 made sense.

Buttery smooth, so quiet (only 1 silencer from factory) and an unnatural surge of torque once mapped.

It made a 2 tonne car intoxicating. And at 26-28 average (max 45.2 on a long run) its better than the 15 the 4.2 petrol gets.
yes It's only when you've driven one you get how diesels can be utterly sublime biggrin

T16OLE

2,944 posts

190 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
What I like about a decent diesel lump is where in the rev range the power is produced.

I.e. most of the power is produced where I spend most of the rev range, as opposed to my previous car, TT V6, of which it sounded great, but you have to really rev it to get it going, whereas my 640d `feels` quicker because the power is so much more accessible.

DoubleD

22,154 posts

107 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
Ares said:
Nanook said:
Ares said:
Nanook said:
I don't think he was claiming it was? He said as much in his post?
Yes he was confused
Ares said:
You've just proved my point. Your petrol engine only revs to 6500. Not in a million years is that 'high-revv'ing!
Fastdruid said:
Nope. My Turbo petrol makes peak torque from 1.5k....only it then goes up to 4.5k before it starts to drop. Although mine isn't that revvy truth be told, it only goes up to 6.5.
Yes, so he proved my point. Most modern turbo petrol engines are not high revving. His 'nope' was misplaced.
Seemed pretty obvious to me

Ahbefive

11,657 posts

171 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
T16OLE said:
What I like about a decent diesel lump is where in the rev range the power is produced.

I.e. most of the power is produced where I spend most of the rev range, as opposed to my previous car, TT V6, of which it sounded great, but you have to really rev it to get it going, whereas my 640d `feels` quicker because the power is so much more accessible.
You are describing liking a turbocharged power delivery rather than a diesel power delivery.

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
Ares said:
Osinjak said:
DonkeyApple said:
What's not to like? It's got a Diesel engine. Plenty of BMWs with nice sounding and feeling petrol engines that have equal performance.
Trouble is, it doesn't tell the whole story. Yep, performance is on a par but emotional attachment isn't. You just can't get emotionally attached to a diesel in the same way that you can with a howling performance petrol engine and I say that as the owner of a 335d.
If you get emotionally attached to any engine, then you need a girlfriend (or boyfriend, I'm not here to judge).

Maybe, just maybe, a screaming Italian V12 might get a pulse racing and be deemed as taking a step towards emotional attachment, but nothing that truly competes with a 3l diesel does, unless a romantic evening includes dinner for one and a box of tissues.
That's quite an obtuse view. There are clearly many petrol engines with great character, sound and feel from 4 pots, 5, 6, 8 upwards and across a spectrum of costs. Many a mundane car has been made great in character by its power plant.

twoblacklines

1,575 posts

160 months

Monday 24th October 2016
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Ahbefive said:
You are describing liking a turbocharged power delivery rather than a diesel power delivery.
Well I went from an 8P1 A3 2.0 tdi dsg so 140hp tdi, to a 8p2 a3 1.8t FSI S-Tronic, so a 160hp petrol turbo, other than that it was the same car, same weight, same gearbox, and the TFSI felt slow in comparison even though it had more power. Which makes sense because it had about 60lbft less than the diesel and at a higher rev point.

So no, we are describing diesel power delivery.